Latin translation speed

[LNC]

How can you raise it? My daughter has a 98 in Lukeion 1 and an A in Latin 2a. She memorizes vocab fairly easily but has to translate relatively slowly. She panicked today bc she ran out of time on the PSQ. (Pres-semester review exam). She read through all the practice translations beforehand, but not times.

 

She saw her speed was slow last year and I bought 38 Latin Stories. Where can I find an answer key for that?? Any other suggestions on getting faster?

[mjbucks1]

I have no suggestions, but wanted to let you know my dd also ran out of time on the Latin 2 PSQ today, and she also has A's in both Latin one and the first 1/2 of Latin 2 this year.  I will have her study more.  I am hopeful that she will be faster when she tries the exam again. My son took Latin 3 and AP Latin with Lukeion, and I know practice does help.  Dd is much faster than she used to be, but not fast enough today. 

 

I have the answer key for 38 Latin stories and I think I bought it from the publisher.

[Gratia271]

Systematic practice through ancillary reading works.  Bolchazy-Carducci sells reading materials across levels, or you can find some older texts in the public domain.  Bolchazy is pricey, but answer keys are available.

 

ETA: It is not uncommon for students who master the "grammar stage" of language study to struggle with the transition to reading fluently and then beyond that to analyzing texts and writing about them. 

[G5052]

Time and getting really, really comfortable with the language will build speed.  I remember a particular German professor who has us read out loud in class and then translate into English right there.  He told us over and over "live and breathe the language" versus going word-by-word.  I was in a panic at first, but in time I could translate much faster.  We read our first German novel that semester, and indeed you had to "live and breathe" in order to get through.

 

My oldest took the Latin AP exam last year and said that he found himself thinking and even dreaming with Latin when he was in the heavy stage of preparation.  When he hit the actual exam, he felt like it was a breeze! 

[Brenda in MA]

I'm not familiar with 38 Latin Stories, but that sounds like a good idea to practice with.  We did extra reading from Colloquia Personarum (from the publisher of Lingua Latina).  I think one of the keys to increasing speed is to practice with very easy reading material first, and then slowly move to harder material.

Another important thing is to really drill vocabulary words continuously -- as in all year long, even in the summer.  We used a computerized flashcard system called Anki that continually adjusts which cards it shows you based on how long it takes you to answer.  I got a pre-made card deck for Wheelock Latin on-line for free.  I started with that base deck, and then as he came across new words in his Latin homework each week, I'd add those to the deck, too.

 

If your goal is the AP exam, realize that there are "unseen" or sight passages that make up a good part of the exam.  The key to doing well with those (in addition to a good foundation in grammar) is having a decent-sized vocabulary.  So it's a good idea to really start working on the vocabulary now in Latin 2.  If your student goes on to Latin 3, there will be many authors covered, and a lot more new vocabulary to learn.  So don't just learn a week or two's words for the quiz and then stop reviewing them.  If you do this, you will be sorry later.

 

My son took Latin 3 & 4 with Lukeion a couple of years back and did well on the AP exam.  He tested into 4th semester Latin at his college, and he found it pretty straight forward with the background he had.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

 

[Kathy in Richmond]

If you want a source of easy reading material that's free online, try old NLE exams. Each one has a reading passage, set of MC questions based on that reading, and translation/answer key available. She could start in level 1 to build fluency and then work through the level 2 set. They even sell a book of the past 30 years of exams if that's not enough. FWIW, that's what I used with my students when they needed a little extra translation help.

 

Also, take Brenda's advice about vocabulary to heart! :) I can't emphasize enough how important it is to have a big bank of vocabulary memorized before the Latin SAT 2 or AP exams. The only way to do it is to work each and every day. My kids spent 10 minutes per day on vocab memorization, and it helped tremendously.

[Gratia271]

In addition to regular work with cumulative vocab, I would also recommend grammar review.  DD spent some time each week this past fall reviewing grammar for SAT 2 in Latin and scored 800.  For her, at least, some weekly grammar review was quite beneficial.

[G5052]

Another important thing is to really drill vocabulary words continuously -- as in all year long, even in the summer.  We used a computerized flashcard system called Anki that continually adjusts which cards it shows you based on how long it takes you to answer.  I got a pre-made card deck for Wheelock Latin on-line for free.  I started with that base deck, and then as he came across new words in his Latin homework each week, I'd add those to the deck, too.

 

If your goal is the AP exam, realize that there are "unseen" or sight passages that make up a good part of the exam.  The key to doing well with those (in addition to a good foundation in grammar) is having a decent-sized vocabulary.  So it's a good idea to really start working on the vocabulary now in Latin 2.  If your student goes on to Latin 3, there will be many authors covered, and a lot more new vocabulary to learn.  So don't just learn a week or two's words for the quiz and then stop reviewing them.  If you do this, you will be sorry later.

 

My son took Latin 3 & 4 with Lukeion a couple of years back and did well on the AP exam.  He tested into 4th semester Latin at his college, and he found it pretty straight forward with the background he had.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

 

I agree.  Both of mine have earned medals every year they've taken the National Latin Exam, and my oldest got a "5" on the AP Exam.  Latin is a year-round class in our household.  My oldest said that he had actually translated every one of the AP passages last year at one time or another, so broad exposure and review is very important if you plan to go the distance.  

 

I took German through the AP level in high school and then into a minor in college, and my dad had me reading German every summer so that wouldn't lose my skills.  He'd have our relatives send children's books from Germany.  That's where I learned that you can't stop with a foreign language and keep it.

[OhioMomof3]

Just wanted to add that my daughter almost ran out of time on the PSQ for Latin 2b yesterday.  She told me that she had 5 seconds to spare, so it seems like the exam was hard for many to get through in the time given.

[LNC]

Thanks! She got an 86 with seconds to spare today. I won't make her try again, though I know Ms. Barr encourages them to. I will get the answer key to 38 Stories. The NLE exams for translations are a great idea. She got a Gold Medal last year, hopefully this year isn't super hard.

 

She knows the vocab in and out, all handwritten flashcards. I thinks she is solid on grammar. She just doesn't put that all together quickly and then comprehend it to answer questions.

 

She is begging me to not take Latin 3 next year. I wanted her to take it so she could take SATII, since most of her potential college accept credit for it. For example, UNC CH requires 3 foreign language classes, and SATII credits 2. She says she doesn't care, but I know she feels stressed right now.

 

Extra info:

{For example, she studies crazy hard for AP US Gov and AP Psych and has a test/quiz ave of 90/87. Thankfully, classwork and not extra credit kick in for her final grade. In comparison, for her homeschool classes: Chalkdust Algebra 2 100% test ave and Dive Chemistry 98% test ave.

 

I don't want her to feel overwhelmed, but most high school level classes I have tried are somwhat easy for her. These 3 online classes can be stressful.}

[forty-two]

I second/third more reading practice, particularly learning to comprehend Latin as Latin, instead of having to turn it into English in order to understand it.  I somehow got As in my two years of high school Latin without ever learning to actually *read* Latin (the little stories that began each chapter required much laborious word-by-word translation for me to make sense of them).  And I approached translations like puzzles - first find the verb, then the subject, and then sprinkle around the other words in some way that hopefully makes sense - I had no idea what the Latin actually said until I'd turned it into English (and so when "the rules" were ambiguous I had no idea what made one translation right while the others were wrong).  Our teacher knew the language *extremely* well, but somehow I mastered all the grammar and declensions and conjugations, and put all those parts together in doing all the translating, without ever seeing Latin as an actual *language*.  The translating in Latin 2 was already pushing my understanding ; even though I'd mastered all the various parts, I was feeling increasingly shaky on translations, because as they got more complex (with multiple possible options for what each case might be doing), the puzzle approach to translating was overwhelming me - Latin 3 would have *killed* me.

 

It wasn't until studying about teaching Latin that I started seeing Latin as a language - and realized that translating to find out what it says is exactly the *wrong* approach;  rather, you can't properly translate unless you *already* know what it means - this was such a lightbulb moment for me.  I really like the Lingua Latina book - it works very well as a reader to bridge from Latin grammar to reading actual authors.  It was what taught me to actually *read* Latin, instead of decipher it.  Pars I covers the same material as Wheelock's and it has a *lot* of reading material, far more than 38 Stories, that is excellent for learning to think in Latin: http://focusbookstore.com/PartI-familiaromana.aspx

[Brenda in MA]

I didn't see the list of courses she is taking in your sig line before.  Wow.  She's got 3 reading-intensive courses, and two of them are AP level.  Add Lukeion Latin on top of that and rigorous math and science, and I'd say double-wow, esp. for a 10th grader.  I know there are some kids out there who could handle that level of course work without a lot of stress, but mine certainly was not one of them.  We had to have at least 2 of the 6 courses be a little more low-key/non-AP level stuff.

 

I can see your logic of having her continue with Latin, but I can see her reluctance due to the amount of work.  I'd suggest thinking about what her interests are (and possible college majors), and if she continues with Latin next year, consider going a bit "easier" in one of the other areas -- history or maybe science?

 

JMHO,

Brenda

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son is not in Lukeion yet, but he did/does (it is becoming fuzzier) want to become a Classics major.  When that was pretty strongly the case, I began looking and found out that oral work was a big deal.  We had done slim to no oral work at all.  So I got beginning Latin texts and just started reading the translation sentences to him.  Without looking at the words, he had to translate.  At first I would have to read the sentence over and over.  We went through GSWL and I thought there was no way Ds was ever going to be a Classics major!

 

Two books later, we went through Cambridge Latin Unit 1 and Ds can do three or four sentences in a row.  He translates the gist of them, not word for word, and is able to really get the flow.  It has dramatically helped his speed in reading comprehension.  I do not know if it would help your daughter, but it might be worth a shot.  We now only have to do the orals stuff about ten minutes a day (as opposed to 35 when we started).  See if your library has some super simple beginner Latin books and try some oral work.

[LNC]

I didn't see the list of courses she is taking in your sig line before. Wow. She's got 3 reading-intensive courses, and two of them are AP level. Add Lukeion Latin on top of that and rigorous math and science, and I'd say double-wow, esp. for a 10th grader. I know there are some kids out there who could handle that level of course work without a lot of stress, but mine certainly was not one of them. We had to have at least 2 of the 6 courses be a little more low-key/non-AP level stuff.

 

I can see your logic of having her continue with Latin, but I can see her reluctance due to the amount of work. I'd suggest thinking about what her interests are (and possible college majors), and if she continues with Latin next year, consider going a bit "easier" in one of the other areas -- history or maybe science?

 

JMHO,

Brenda

yes, I know. I updated in #10 about my concerns for her workload. I hope to rectify it with a more manageable load next year...

[LNC]

We are strongly considering letting her be done with Latin after this year. Even though she will have to start over with Latin in college. Sigh... She will have many AP (hopefully!) and dual enrollment credits to lighten her course requirement load.

 

I am hoping to count her 8th grade First and Second Form Latin as an Intro to Latin high school level course on her transcript, not towards her gpa. (Memoria Press has a high school online course covering First and Seond in one year). So her transcript shows she has 3 years of Latin. Any thoughs on that idea?

There's a fantastic essay on how to read Latin more fluidly written in the 1800s:

 

https://archive.org/details/artofreadinglati00hale

 

Basically, it requires a lot of practice, and discipline to read sentences in their original word order, and not play the "find the verb" game.