Lecka Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I do think, in Social Thinking stuff, they have things that are aimed at getting kids to see that two people can be part of the same event, but not feel the same way about it, or have the same opinion. I think they have a lot for that kind of flexibility. But I do think that is for older kids to a great extent. I am not sure what the little-kid version of it would include. For my son, it is just being able to accept that things happen in different ways. It is not so much that he needs to be flexible himself, as that he needs to accept it when other people or situations require him to be flexible (by going and changing, lol). So I would say, that is more the place we are looking at, and he is doing well. I know there are things to improve the child being flexible, but I do not really know. I know more about, the child just being able to handle things when it is a challenge b/c of rigidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I do think, in Social Thinking stuff, they have things that are aimed at getting kids to see that two people can be part of the same event, but not feel the same way about it, or have the same opinion. I think they have a lot for that kind of flexibility. But I do think that is for older kids to a great extent. I am not sure what the little-kid version of it would include. For my son, it is just being able to accept that things happen in different ways. It is not so much that he needs to be flexible himself, as that he needs to accept it when other people or situations require him to be flexible (by going and changing, lol). So I would say, that is more the place we are looking at, and he is doing well. I know there are things to improve the child being flexible, but I do not really know. I know more about, the child just being able to handle things when it is a challenge b/c of rigidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I do think, in Social Thinking stuff, they have things that are aimed at getting kids to see that two people can be part of the same event, but not feel the same way about it, or have the same opinion. I think they have a lot for that kind of flexibility. But I do think that is for older kids to a great extent. I am not sure what the little-kid version of it would include. For my son, it is just being able to accept that things happen in different ways. It is not so much that he needs to be flexible himself, as that he needs to accept it when other people or situations require him to be flexible (by going and changing, lol). So I would say, that is more the place we are looking at, and he is doing well. I know there are things to improve the child being flexible, but I do not really know. I know more about, the child just being able to handle things when it is a challenge b/c of rigidity. I would say right now, he is flexible in a go-with-the-flow way, but he is not flexible in a "I am thinking of things in more that one way" way. But just being able to be flexible to get along in daily life is very good! Today he was sad b/c he didn't get the snack he wanted at school, and he told me when I picked him up. But it didn't ruin his day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Oh we are on completely different levels in Bartons with reading and spelling! Usually that is one to two books behind! I asked Susan if I should hold my kids in book 3 lesson three until they mastered the spelling and sight words, and she said not to . Spelling comes much slower at my house.but it finally gets done:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'll have to read his book. In the meantime, I am going to stop making my youngest slow down his Learning Alli app speed ( he likes it when the voice is so squeaky and distorted, because he wants to hear his stories read faster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Oh we are on completely different levels in Bartons with reading and spelling! Usually that is one to two books behind! I asked Susan if I should hold my kids in book 3 lesson three until they mastered the spelling and sight words, and she said not to . Spelling comes much slower at my house.but it finally gets done:). Well cool, confirmation that the guru herself thinks you have to split them apart sometimes. Awesome! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 O.k. so if you were to separate out the spelling from the reading portion of Barton, exactly what would that look like? Do you also do the spelling lessons but just at a slower pace? Do the spelling differently? No spelling for now? What specific letter parts are you keeping intact? I hate to sound like an idiot but this is not my area of expertise. I am wondering if separating these might help DS in some way, since he really wants to move forward but he has such odd glitches that DD just doesn't have to deal with....it doesn't' seem to be tied specifically to spelling, but still, spelling is more challenging for him and the dysgraphia does cause stress as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 OneStep, are you asking me? Um, could go a couple ways. One, save those steps, compile them into a notebook, and go through the steps at his own pace. Or use a different curriculum for spelling. Or use an entirely different *approach* to spelling. Personally, I don't see how you rule your way into real spelling. These kids are often VSL, so it makes sense to harness their VSL abilities. Pudewa says to harness auditory. Whatever works. Freed talks about visualization and reverse recitation via visualization, and I've talked with a variety of people who did this. I really don't know what will work with my ds. I know what I did with my dd (instruction plus separate contextualized practice plus lots of opportunities to interact visually) but I have no clue what will happen with ds. Right now it's a start just to be able to read the words of level 3. I think that's what sorta threw me about the spelling in level 3, because it's not hard but the amount and type is more than I'd want to do for this age. I'm unwilling to hold back his reading progress over it, especially now that we have SLD-writing added to his mix. He's very print hungry, so we're just gonna keep going and let whatever happens happen with the spelling and say oops/shoulda later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 OneStep, are you asking me? Um, could go a couple ways. One, save those steps, compile them into a notebook, and go through the steps at his own pace. Or use a different curriculum for spelling. Or use an entirely different *approach* to spelling. Personally, I don't see how you rule your way into real spelling. These kids are often VSL, so it makes sense to harness their VSL abilities. Pudewa says to harness auditory. Whatever works. Freed talks about visualization and reverse recitation via visualization, and I've talked with a variety of people who did this. I really don't know what will work with my ds. I know what I did with my dd (instruction plus separate contextualized practice plus lots of opportunities to interact visually) but I have no clue what will happen with ds. Right now it's a start just to be able to read the words of level 3. I think that's what sorta threw me about the spelling in level 3, because it's not hard but the amount and type is more than I'd want to do for this age. I'm unwilling to hold back his reading progress over it, especially now that we have SLD-writing added to his mix. He's very print hungry, so we're just gonna keep going and let whatever happens happen with the spelling and say oops/shoulda later. Yeah, I guess I'm just a bit flummoxed on separating it all out since what seems to be working for DD is the integration of the two processes. She is finally getting so much better at spelling, reading and writing just by using Barton with everything interwoven. She needs a slow pace but she is getting it. And she feels so much more confident now. She knows she still has a ways to go. She doesn't usually stress over it at all. She has confidence that at least with reading and writing she is making significant progress and she will never have to go back to being the only one in the class who can't read. But poor DS struggles with these odd glitches even with me trying to incorporate the LiPS stuff (subtly) and it upsets him so much. I was thinking that since others here are separating the reading and spelling successfully, maybe if I did the same, and he could at least catch up on the reading side of things, then spelling could be dealt with separately and maybe later. Then the glitches might not seem so overwhelming to him, KWIM? I don't know. Anyway, thanks. Sorry to derail the thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 OneStep, that sounds like a good thing to call and talk through with Barton! Or email her. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingCat Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Ooh, I hope you do call Barton and ask her :) I always feel that programs don't really recognize 'glitchy' - which means the child is supposed to stay stuck in that level until they can get it - which would keep my DD stuck forever it has seemed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I would second calling Susan. It has been a while, but I think what she told me was to got over their spelling words at the begining of the session the ways you are supposed to.: visualize, write on table with finger and write on paper while emphasizing red letter. Then do your lesson and then do cards again. If student still can't spell words after correctly going through procedures three days, I could do another three days, and or start a spelling notebook with those words and review. We slowed down and still do the procedure, but are working on spelling words from lesson 4 I think and we are almost done with 5. Sometimes, I do have to help with sentence dictation, if I know we haven't done that particular spelling word. I have seen with my older kids, that for them Bartons spelling worked, it just comes a little more slowly. We need more review. I didn't do the procedure correctly at first either . I only did it once a sessions, instead of twice. Truth be told, I skipped it at times, because I just wanted them to spend the most time reading and didn't see a result from the spelling work for a long time. For spelling in general, I think it helps to print off the tutor cards with spelling rules and picures and review those as well. Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks everyone. I will try contacting Susan tomorrow. So when everyone is talking about separating out the spelling, are all of you talking about just the Site Words? Or ALL the spelling? DD, interestingly, is on the second Level 5 site words list even though she is still in Level 4. She is really nailing the spelling for site words. Once I actually started embracing how the site words are presented in Barton, instead of skipping or glossing over or short cutting those steps, she started nailing them nearly every time. I ended up ordering Level 5 early just to get the next set of site words. Worked out well, since it gives me more time to look through the lessons, too. But poor DS is still trying to master three words from the middle site word list in Level 3, (we haven't even started that last list from Level 3) even though he is now in the beginning of Level 4. He will get them, then we move on, then he starts glitching and we review again. Thankfully, the system is structured so I can go at the slower pace for site words with DS and the faster pace for DD. I just wonder if cutting out the site word review altogether for now might help DS. I don't know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Heretical Comment Alert: Or you could give him the rules behind the sight words (so they wouldn't be site words anymore) and then maybe he'd remember them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Heretical Comment Alert: Or you could give him the rules behind the sight words (so they wouldn't be site words anymore) and then maybe he'd remember them. Sounds great but I thought the Barton site words were put on her specific site word lists because most of them didn't follow the normal rules but are very common words? Like, I know that a lot of "site word" lists are actually words that DO follow rules, but are so commonly used and sometimes the rules that apply are tricky enough that many systems just stick them in the site word category and have a student rote memorize them instead of putting them in the learn the phonics rule to learn how to spell them category. Barton, as I understand it, tackles a lot more of those "site" words by the student learning those tricky, weird rules to automaticity (when they can) instead of putting them on a list to memorize. So her site word lists are pretty paired down, it seems, to words that mostly don't follow rules? I admit I don't know. This is honestly not my area of expertise. I do not remember every having to memorize site words or having any trouble learning to spell commonly used words. I just read, wrote and spelled without a whole lot of explicit instruction I guess. I was reading and writing so early it is a bit of a blur. TBH, I had never even heard of a site word until DD started Kinder. Maybe I am misinterpreting the Barton lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 SWR/WRTR is what I started with years ago, and Sanseri aims to make 80-90% (I forget exactly) of english rule-following. I also cheat in linguistically reasonable ways. For instance, you can "think to spell" the word "of" and get it to be rule-following. However in the process you add a layer of complexity and distract some kids (in my house, of the male gender, of the dyslexia variant) and they end up only remembering the silly british accent version, not helpful. So now I just flat out tell him the /s/ is saying it's 2nd sound here, the O is saying it's 3rd sound, the vowel is reducing, whatever. The slight tips seem to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Good news here! My older son came home today and had taken a reading test at school, his Lexile level went up a huge amount since the last time (earlier this year), he has a Lexile level now of 915. So at a moment like this -- the early remediation sure seems like it was worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Good news here! My older son came home today and had taken a reading test at school, his Lexile level went up a huge amount since the last time (earlier this year), he has a Lexile level now of 915. So at a moment like this -- the early remediation sure seems like it was worthwhile. :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks everyone. I will try contacting Susan tomorrow. So when everyone is talking about separating out the spelling, are all of you talking about just the Site Words? Or ALL the spelling? DD, interestingly, is on the second Level 5 site words list even though she is still in Level 4. She is really nailing the spelling for site words. Once I actually started embracing how the site words are presented in Barton, instead of skipping or glossing over or short cutting those steps, she started nailing them nearly every time. I ended up ordering Level 5 early just to get the next set of site words. Worked out well, since it gives me more time to look through the lessons, too. But poor DS is still trying to master three words from the middle site word list in Level 3, (we haven't even started that last list from Level 3) even though he is now in the beginning of Level 4. He will get them, then we move on, then he starts glitching and we review again. Thankfully, the system is structured so I can go at the slower pace for site words with DS and the faster pace for DD. I just wonder if cutting out the site word review altogether for now might help DS. I don't know.... OneStep, I'm rereading this and realizing something. What you're essentially saying is she tries to separate in their minds these words follow the rules, these don't, to make it less of a guessing game when they actually go to spell them? This actually makes sense to me, the more I think about it. We're just on the first list of the sight words in 3, so I don't really have a strong opinion on how things will work out. Actually we got bogged down in lesson 1 of level 3, which I'm sort of bummed about. (me and my visions of fast progression, sigh) My dh brought me home a HUGE boot tray from Home Depot, like 39" wide, so that's hilarious. He says "That's what you wanted, right?" :lol: So I'm thinking we can write sentences in it for sure, 39" wide, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I am so glad that my kids aren't the only ones who have issues with the sight word lists of Barton. I have completely dropped them because it was disheartening to be starting level 6 and working on Level 3 ( or 4) sight words. Instead I bought a list of 1000 sight words on cardstock. It's a crazy list. Make is a sight word? LOL. We work on these cards for spelling sight words. We read the Barton list and if there is a word they cannot read, we review it until they know it. The only reason we bother to read the list from barton is because those are the words that pop up in the stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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