If you've used AOPS with a dyslexic... tell me about it :)

[AimeeM]

DD needs a confidence boost. Since she's repeating grade 7 this year, I was thinking about just picking a prealgebra again (even though she tests into Algebra - CLE). She doesn't MIND cle, but I miss seeing that *spark* that used to be there for her. The AOPS books read as so much *fun* compared to other texts. Plus, I'm not happy with the "chug and plug" methods she learned for some things last year in school, so I would like to do a couple of things over.

 

I've bought the books before, and sent them back, not able to imagine my dyslexic kiddo being able to deal with the wordiness of the texts... but the wordiness is part of the *fun*... there's almost a light humor in so many of the chapters. It definitely reflects a love of math... a similar love that she *used to have*.

 

I also like the idea of doing things she's done before, but in a way she hasn't done them - AOPS would stretch that, while still allowing her to feel confident that "hey, I've done this before!". There's no reason why she couldn't still progress some in CLE Algebra once or twice a week, but I have the feeling AOPS would take quite a bit of time, due to the reading involved, and just the general nature of doing these things in ways she never has before. 

 

I just don't know *how* to do it. She's a visual learner - she learns best by reading, and seeing, not by listening, so I hesitate to read it all aloud to her. Team reading, maybe?

[wapiti]

My two cents: I would probably experiment a bit at first, sitting with her while she does the lesson problems on a white board. Others may not quite agree with my perspective, but I still believe that the vast majority of the learning is in the doing, not in the reading. Then if she gets stuck, you can help her by peeking at the solution and asking a question, etc. In any case, after the lesson problems, when it's time to look at the solutions, you could help her sift through the solutions to point out the crucial things that didn't come up while doing the lesson problems so that the solutions need not be read word-by-word.

[Erin]

What does SHE say?  

The wordiness is precisely the biggest reason we never tried AoPS.  

 

Buck needs math to be clean and straightforward.  

[AimeeM]

Her eyes are too glazed over for her to say much of anything. She said she "doesn't care" what I buy.

[AimeeM]

My two cents: I would probably experiment a bit at first, sitting with her while she does the lesson problems on a white board. Others may not quite agree with my perspective, but I still believe that the vast majority of the learning is in the doing, not in the reading. Then if she gets stuck, you can help her by peeking at the solution and asking a question, etc. In any case, after the lesson problems, when it's time to look at the solutions, you could help her sift through the solutions to point out the crucial things that didn't come up while doing the lesson problems so that the solutions need not be read word-by-word.

I actually quite like this strategy. Thanks!

[wapiti]

FWIW, when we did it that way, going through the lesson problem solutions typically only took a few minutes (it helps that a lot of the key info is contained in gray boxes that say "important!" or something like that LOL).  The length and detail of the lesson problem solutions is great for those times when she just can't get it after trying to whatever her frustration level is, even after leading questions, hints, etc.  The more she does on her own, the better the learning, but it's nice to have the detail for when it is needed (you'll probably hear "oh! now I see" "why didn't I think of that").

 

The exercises are separate from the lesson problems and I'd encourage her to do them independently, maybe in a notebook.  When it comes to the chapter review, I usually assigned all the regular review problems and a few of the challenge problems.  Other people do all the challenge problems.  Even for the exercises, one of my kids would prefer to shout out the answer to me as he came to it, wanting to know immediately whether he was correct, and I'd check right then.  He didn't keep a notebook.

[Butter]

I read the words of the lessons to my dyslexic son.  He comprehends very well when things are read to him, not so much when he reads it himself.  Sometimes he writes the answers, sometimes he does them orally.  He can do some pretty long problems in his head.  We only bother reading the solution explanations if he didn't understand or get it right.

[Mukmuk]

A bit of hesitation to post because I'm not sure I can be helpful. The reason being, ds is stealth dyslexic. Which means... no problems with the reading mechanics (although he has problems with some understanding from visual/brain skipping) but he has a dyslexic profile (disorganised in his case). Please take what you can.

 

Ds started Intro to Algebra 2yrs ago. Loved it. I didn't like it initially but grew to love it. But I couldn't follow ds' processing style when he needed help, and he'd get so upset with me. So I found a tutor who did Dolciani with him last year. Great tutor, wrong curriculum. A year later, ds asked to come back to AOPS. He's grown 2 years since the first time he started AOPS, and the maturity helps. Ds has never found the text wordy cos, gasp, he doesn't read it, at least not in its entirety. For the teaching problems, he checks his own efforts against the numerical workings; in the explanations where there are more words, he skims for what he needs. He has a tutor for discussing the absolute toughies that he can't do, which has been invaluable.

 

So to come back to your question :P, AOPS can be very enjoyable for a dyslexic. Your dd can do the teaching problems and go through the solutions on her own (if she likes to learn from self-reading) -this cuts down the reading of the entire chapter. Discussion while working through tough questions or the text portion of the teaching problems is a more effective mode of learning than reading the text, especially for dyslexics.

 

Good luck.

[Legomom]

I am following this thread with interest because I am in somewhat of a similar situation with my son, although he is in 8th grade and we just started Saxon algebra 1 this year (after doing Singapore). He has been very unhappy with Saxon and I wondered if AOPS might be a better fit--and like the OP am thinking of starting with pre-algebra. My question is how long to try AOPS before deciding if it is working or not? If we go back to pre-algebra I feel that we will be "behind" in the college prep sequence, but I don't think he is ready for AOPS algebra, so I feel some time pressure at this point.

[AimeeM]

I am following this thread with interest because I am in somewhat of a similar situation with my son, although he is in 8th grade and we just started Saxon algebra 1 this year (after doing Singapore). He has been very unhappy with Saxon and I wondered if AOPS might be a better fit--and like the OP am thinking of starting with pre-algebra. My question is how long to try AOPS before deciding if it is working or not? If we go back to pre-algebra I feel that we will be "behind" in the college prep sequence, but I don't think he is ready for AOPS algebra, so I feel some time pressure at this point.

I'm with you. I'm nervous deviating. I do not think it's a good idea, especially with my DD, to start such a different way of learning with aops algebra, but I'm worried about it not working, and sliding backwards.

[RootAnn]

Caveat:  Toss some salt on this post as I'm not an AoPS guru!

 

Aimee - AoPS might be great for your daughter. You haven't started CLE Algebra I yet, right? You might want to start out doing three days of one & two of the other for the first few weeks. You should be able to tell soon enough which one will speak to her the most. If she ends up asking for AoPS full time, I wouldn't sweat the CLE algebra because the AoPS pre-a won't put you 'behind.'

 

A couple tips - read past threads on the 'tough chapters' to see if you want to start at the beginning or somewhere else in the pre-A text. Since she's already been through pre-A, it isn't absolutely mandatory to do every chapter in order, IMO. Next would be to sit with her and do the problems with her. Hopefully, she'll be pretty happy with getting the answer before you sometimes. Ups her confidence & the charm of the book. :-) Also, start out saying that you'll stick with both CLE & AoPS for a set amount of time (a month? three months? pick something) before dropping one or the other. Then, stick with it. You can drop down to one day a week for the un-preferred option after awhile, but keep doing it. Finally, don't forget alcumus and the videos when you are stuck or want a change of pace. I remember she doesn't like computer-based stuff, but perhaps she might like the videos.

[AimeeM]

Caveat:  Toss some salt on this post as I'm not an AoPS guru!

 

Aimee - AoPS might be great for your daughter. You haven't started CLE Algebra I yet, right? You might want to start out doing three days of one & two of the other for the first few weeks. You should be able to tell soon enough which one will speak to her the most. If she ends up asking for AoPS full time, I wouldn't sweat the CLE algebra because the AoPS pre-a won't put you 'behind.'

 

A couple tips - read past threads on the 'tough chapters' to see if you want to start at the beginning or somewhere else in the pre-A text. Since she's already been through pre-A, it isn't absolutely mandatory to do every chapter in order, IMO. Next would be to sit with her and do the problems with her. Hopefully, she'll be pretty happy with getting the answer before you sometimes. Ups her confidence & the charm of the book. :-) Also, start out saying that you'll stick with both CLE & AoPS for a set amount of time (a month? three months? pick something) before dropping one or the other. Then, stick with it. You can drop down to one day a week for the un-preferred option after awhile, but keep doing it. Finally, don't forget alcumus and the videos when you are stuck or want a change of pace. I remember she doesn't like computer-based stuff, but perhaps she might like the videos.

She has started CLE. Now, it's been "here and there", as we haven't done much of anything consistently since my surgery, but my recovery is officially OVER, so after the holidays we are starting a new, year 'round, January-December schedule.

 

You don't think, then, that it would be detrimental for me to go through the AOPS pre-a book and, say, just pick out the areas that I worry about her understanding conceptually (say, the areas that I suspect she's simply "plugging and chugging" algorithms) and just do those? Would it give us enough of a taste to see if she prefers the method/presentation enough to drop CLE Algebra, in favor of AOPS Intro?

 

Yes, she's been through pre-a twice now and is pretty solid, but she went through several math teachers last year at the private school, and all had different methods, did different areas of pre-algebra, and she ended the year more confused than she'd started (she started as having gone through pre-a successfully already, with the exception of ratios). She tests into CLE... but I really suspect she's relying on more plug-and-chug than I'm comfortable with. 

[RootAnn]

You don't think, then, that it would be detrimental for me to go through the AOPS pre-a book and, say, just pick out the areas that I worry about her understanding conceptually (say, the areas that I suspect she's simply "plugging and chugging" algorithms) and just do those? Would it give us enough of a taste to see if she prefers the method/presentation enough to drop CLE Algebra, in favor of AOPS Intro?

 

It is going to depend on the section as AoPS does build on itself. But, in general, I don't think it would be detrimental. Not sure on the 'enough of a taste' question as that will depend on which sections you pick, your daughter's attitude toward a whole new method, and how she views the "get two problems done in an hour" feeling. Will she feel thrilled at the joy or frustration at the AoPS method? Hard to know how long that will take.

[Mukmuk]

The previous posts on Aops requiring a change in learning method jogged my memory. Yes undoubtedly, there was a lot of stress in the move from Dolciani to Aops. There were tears and stalling for a few weeks, but what pushed him on was the fact that he signed up for a class and loved it. This was both a motivation as well as an added pressure because the pace is breakneck. The transition is over now and I must have blocked it out from my memory because it wasn't pretty! Throwing this out there for people to make informed plans on whether/how to carry it out.

[FairProspects]

I'm following too. :)