Adhd - disorder or variation?

[swellmomma]

With regard to medication, I involve the child in the decision.  I let my children know that there are resources that might help if and when they want to pursue it.  If I can't accomodate the particular child's need, then I might push more for medication even if the child was reluctant.  I worry about leaving it up to the child of course, but I also feel like it is something they will have to live with for life so they should have a say.

I agree with this.  Oldest was reluctant at first but has since acknowledged he feels better on the meds.  Our bigger issue now is him thinking he is well enough to go off meds (bigger issue for his bipolar meds not his adhd ones) when really he is only well because of them.

[suenos]

Lots of interesting comments in this thread!  Mom to ADHD DS 7.  

 

It's a disorder if it's a problem for the person.  Whether it's a problem depends mostly on the environment.  That sounds really vague.  But parents/family/schools/other groups vary widely in expectations and willingness to allow for differences in kids and their behavior/needs.  I have two family members I visit.  We have a great time with one - she rolls with it, easily allows us to say no go to a typically problematic activity, thoroughly enjoys DS and his enthusiasm, energy and curiosity. Does not overreact if DS overreacts (positively or negatively).  I have another...it's stressful with her for me/DS.  It's a good thing DS is not theirs.

 

One of the most important things that we do (at this young age) is manage the environment and expectations for DS so that it is not (so much) of a problem for him, or for us/others.  I hope this gives us the time and space to allow DS 7 to grow, mature, and learn to handle the situations that challenge him - including focus/attention/frustration tolerance/impulse control/emotional regulation, etc. The A#1 way we do this is to homeschool.  No way could he go to school and not get the message that he is defective/deficient/lacking/wrong.  And that message is so so negative.  Talk about lasting impacts.  Drs./experts/teachers....rolling eyes if they think school would be better.  Whatever - they clearly have no clue on this.  :lol:

 

We don't medicate now, but we tried several kinds (stimulants and a non-stimulant).  The benefits were not worth the side effects for us/DS.  The side effects can be bad.  And only you/your family/dc can decide if it is working/worth it.  No expert, friend, etc. can do that for y'all. So frustrating..hugs.  Sometimes I would give anything to have someone give me instructions I could just trust and follow. :crying: We might revisit meds again when DS is older.   

 

Until then - we do school in a way that (most days!) plays to his strengths. Do you have an exercise ball?  We have two - shorter for sitting/bouncing on.  Bigger for going all out! Very short focused "lessons".  Changed expectations.  Lots of play, outdoor time, exercise, breaks.  Lots of big movement activities - acting out/experiments/etc. for science/history. Math is almost all oral. DS does not yet write.  Reading is coming, slow and steady.  In my mind, he is the perfect candidate for delayed schooling/interest-led schooling. So for the next 2 - 3 years we'll move him forward with reading/math and stay with fun and interesting with most else. I know down the line....cross that bridge when we get there is my current mantra. 

 

Some pet peeves of mine - yes ADHD exists and is not just b/c these kids are asked to sit too much. LOL. I've got video of DS at  12 months...revealing...come to think of it, I've got video of him at 3 months that is interesting too. He was born moving! Shoot, the sonogram tech commented on his movement while trying to get a pic/measurements/tell us if he was a boy/girl when he was 20 weeks in utero!!!  Little did we know...

 

That said, sigh, I really do think as others suggested that we have environmental triggers here - as likely with autism/allergies/cancers/the list goes on. But how is suspecting that supposed to help me help DS?  I don't know that it does.  Diet stuff was not a miracle cure for DS, though it does make a difference. Exercise makes a difference. So does paying attention to sensory stuff.  Finally, imho ADHD is probably a poorly fitting label for a group of (related) observed behaviors that have multiple causes.  In other words, its useful as a device to organize our ideas/test treatments, etc. The book, "ADHD Does Not Exist" is on to something, at least. But I wasn't totally satisfied - I don't think the author's list of other causes exhausts what we see with kids we think are *true* ADD/ADHD. But it was a good, thought-provoking read. And yet at the end of the day, all we have to do is get DS to adulthood - intact and competent to make his way in the world.  We work for and hope for more...but that is the bottom line. 

 

Stimulants help everyone focus/pay more attention.  The idea that they are *calming* for those with ADHD, but would do something else to those without it is just a myth. Try them and see for yourself.  There's a reason they are abused by those with who want extra help to stay awake/pay attention/cram for tests/etc. Not excusing such (poor!) decisions...just saying.  But yes, for ADHD people the difference could be more than a few extra points on the test, it could mean being able to pass it at all. 

 

I totally hear you about being fed up with people who think ADHD is (solely) caused by schools or intolerant societies. Gotta love 'em, but some people find a great thing (i.e. homeschooling) and think it is the cure for all and everything! :laugh:  Don't let those people inside your head when you and yours are deciding on the best (for now, anyways) course of action for your dc. 

 

Y'all are a great group to be in conversation with about this!  Now to googling articles mentioned here...

 

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

I strongly disagree that ADHD meds have the same affect on those with ADHD and neurotypical persons. There is peer reviewed science showing the differences.

 

Ritalin has been around a long time, and is well studied.

 

If you are getting the same reaction you may have a misdiagnosis somewhere.

 

While we've not had any severe side effects, I do know some families who have. Some because of misdiagnosis, some because of allergic response.

[ElizabethB]

Want to come scrub my grout for a while? Maybe I could straighten up while you do grout and then we can switch houses and then both houses would be clean! :laugh: I hate scrubbing grout, it never comes clean enough for me and I can't use commercial strength cleaners because I'm too sensitive to the fumes!

I have developed food allergies in the last 10 years, latex and polyester 3 years ago, and most chemical fumes and candles 2 years ago.

 

I can tolerate oxygen bleach:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ajax-Products-Calcite-based-nonchlorinated-ammonia-based/dp/B004E2IMYG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=8-3&keywords=Oxygen+bleach+Ajax

 

Also, if I need to use something with fumes, I wear this gas mask while cleaning and air out the bathroom with the fan and window:

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_69598-98-R6211_0__?productId=1097909&Ntt=mask&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dmask&facetInfo=

 

Mine is pink, it is *almost* cute in pink. 😃

[mamabear2three]

 

Some pet peeves of mine - yes ADHD exists and is not just b/c these kids are asked to sit too much. LOL. I've got video of DS at  12 months...revealing...come to think of it, I've got video of him at 3 months that is interesting too. He was born moving! Shoot, the sonogram tech commented on his movement while trying to get a pic/measurements/tell us if he was a boy/girl when he was 20 weeks in utero!!!  Little did we know...

 

 

 

This is really funny - No one listened to me when I said that my daughter was always moving before she was born. They were like, "yeah, isn't it cool to feel the baby move inside you?" I had to learn to sleep through it because otherwise I'd never sleep! The sonogram tech was always commenting on how much she moved - and saying how amazed they were specifically since she was a girl moving that much! We quickly learned that she had two speeds - on (and loud/fast) or off and it was and still is so hard to get her to turn off and go to sleep!

 

I have developed food allergies in the last 10 years, latex and polyester 3 years ago, and most chemical fumes and candles 2 years ago.

 

I can tolerate oxygen bleach:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ajax-Products-Calcite-based-nonchlorinated-ammonia-based/dp/B004E2IMYG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=8-3&keywords=Oxygen+bleach+Ajax

 

Also, if I need to use something with fumes, I wear this gas mask while cleaning and air out the bathroom with the fan and window:

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_69598-98-R6211_0__?productId=1097909&Ntt=mask&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dmask&facetInfo=

 

Mine is pink, it is *almost* cute in pink. 😃

 

Thanks for these recommendations! :)

[suenos]

I strongly disagree that ADHD meds have the same affect on those with ADHD and neurotypical persons. There is peer reviewed science showing the differences.

 

 

The "same" affect? Maybe the (neurological? behavioral?) response is not exactly the same ...but neurotypicals also see increased focus/attention, decreased emotional response/hyperactivity on "ADHD" stimulant medications.  Brain science is coming along...lots of evidence from brain imaging/studies showing those labeled ADHD have neurological differences...yes. I guess I am mostly against the idea that a response to ADHD meds is a good "test" of the diagnosis. Even neurotypicals would do better on tests of attention/focus on stimulant meds.  There's been tests of this too....plus hard to sort out the peer reviewed science - categorization of ADHD needed to even do the studies, after all.   

 

Yes, ritalin is certainly a 'well-studied' med.  But scientists are still arguing about long term studies' take away message about benefits of medication, though...

 

All of the above is no argument against OP's seeking treatment, including medication, if that seems the best option/worth a try for her dd. 

[Storygirl]

I agree with a lot of what you said in your post, but I wanted to pull out a couple of things to comment on (my comments in blue).

 

Lots of interesting comments in this thread!  Mom to ADHD DS 7.  

 

It's a disorder if it's a problem for the person.  Whether it's a problem depends mostly on the environment.  That sounds really vague.  But parents/family/schools/other groups vary widely in expectations and willingness to allow for differences in kids and their behavior/needs.

Although I agree that some environments (and people) are more accepting and/or more adaptable and accommodating, I can't agree with your bolded statement. DS10 has undoubtedly been able to learn more academically at home than he would have in school, but being in a more accommodating environment has not made his attention and impulsivity problems less severe. And it is not just a question of others being understanding and helpful. For DS, his ADHD affects his ability to learn academic material, perform everyday activities (EF),  and get along with others. These are huge issues. Yes, being in an accommodating environment can make it possible to address these things in a different way, but it doesn't take them away. He struggles no matter what environment he is in.

 

.   

And yet at the end of the day, all we have to do is get DS to adulthood - intact and competent to make his way in the world.  We work for and hope for more...but that is the bottom line. 

I agree, kind of. The journey to adulthood for DS10 is going to be longer and tougher, both for him and for the rest of his family. I expect that he will require a more intense kind of parenting far beyond the normal age of adulthood. Parenting DS10 is exhausting, and we are only halfway there.

 

Stimulants help everyone focus/pay more attention.  The idea that they are *calming* for those with ADHD, but would do something else to those without it is just a myth.

Actually, the way that our pediatrician explained it to us, the stimulants work by stimulating the inhibitive parts of the brain. The affect on behavior can seem calming, because the child is now able to decide which of many stimuli to pay attention to, and their behavior is more controlled and less impulsive. So the meds stimulate parts of the brain that are active in NT people but are often not in people with ADHD.

 

As far as stimulants affecting NT people and people with ADHD in the exact same way, let's consider caffeine for a moment. The consumption of caffeine has been shown to improve test performance in college students, for example, and can help them stay awake to study when taken in larger doses. In someone with ADHD, caffeine can also help students focus and perform, but taken in larger doses, it makes the person with ADHD sleepy. So it has a similar affect to a certain point, but also has a different affect.

 

[bobbeym]

That's an interesting perspective and question as to what kids will think if the meds are *withheld* for a parent's whim and the child isn't given the choice or option.  That makes sense they could look back and regret that.  Hmm.

 

I know my brother resents my dad for not allowing him to be tested and diagnosed.  There's never been any doubt that he's on the severe end of the ADHD scale and most likely would have benefited significantly with medication.  My dad has said he regrets it now as well, but for whatever reason my brother is now resistant to being tested.  I think he'd still benefit from it.  

 

I never resented my parents for not having me tested but back then they didn't usually test girls anyway.  While I was an extremely active tomboy, I was also the daydreamer, nose always stuck in the a book kind of girl.  I had 2 speeds - on and off - and it wasn't until I was an adult and dealing with my own kids that I realized I was ADHD.

 

I suspect that DS16 carries some resent against DH for not letting him be tested.  Heck, I know I do, but it's a battle that I absolutely.will.not.win and I refuse to go against DH's wishes behind his back.  Not that I haven't thought about it a thousand times over.  :glare:   DS knows that I will fully support him if he choose to get himself tested and put on meds as an adult.  And in the meantime, I just keep praying that DH will get over it and see that meds might be helpful.  (FWIW, DH has a thing against children being labelled with anything that falls into a mental disorder category. I'm nearly certain that DS20 would have been diagnosed with Asperger's if he'd been tested as a child, but of course testing wasn't permitted.) 

 

 

Some pet peeves of mine - yes ADHD exists and is not just b/c these kids are asked to sit too much. LOL. I've got video of DS at  12 months...revealing...come to think of it, I've got video of him at 3 months that is interesting too. He was born moving! Shoot, the sonogram tech commented on his movement while trying to get a pic/measurements/tell us if he was a boy/girl when he was 20 weeks in utero!!!  Little did we know...

 

DS16 was like this too.  Constant non-stop action from the get go.

[Garga]

Today my ADHD husband reminded my ADHD son to take his meds.  Ha!  The blind leading the blind.  Of course DH did not take the time to physically check that DS had taken the meds and of course DS completely forgot to take his meds on the way to the kitchen.  

 

I wondered all day what the heck had happened to my son?  He was sooooo stinkin' irritating all day long.  It's not the energy.  It's the non-stop inappropriate interruptions, the inability to STOP annoying behavior when asked repeatedly, the comments, "Oh, I'm so stupid!" when he couldn't get himself to stop.  The disregard for anyone else's emotions or needs or ideas.  He kept hurting my other son's feelings all day and saying things like, "Whatever!" when we pointed out the unkind remarks. The extreme impatience if we didn't immediately drop what we were doing and leap to attend to whatever he asked us about.  It was the pretending to bite our family friend (a 46 year old man) as part of a joke--twice, after being told to STOP IT.  The constant saying one things and meaning another. Kids used to do that in school when I was young and say, "Psych!" afterwards.  I haaaaate that behavior and it is forbidden in my house.  But today DS couldn't stop doing that all day long.

 

It was a rough day.  I wondered if he'd just overdone it yesterday at the Renaissance Festival and was overtired or something.  And then my eye fell on the weekly pill case and saw the Sunday pill still in the case.  Aha.  

 

I don't care what causes ADHD.  I don't care if it's a variation or a disease.  I just care that my son is absolutely incapable of regulating himself and causes the people around him stress and anxiety with his behavior.  And you bet he internalizes that and knows he's being irritating but can't stop himself.  It's really sad.  We ended the day on a high note when I realized he hadn't taken his pill.  He was worried that the meds had stopped working for him and he'd be stuck like that forever.  He was glad to know that tomorrow will be completely different.

 

ETA:  When he takes his meds, he is not a different kid.  He's still witty and funny, but he can stop himself from pretending to bite adults.  He can stop himself from disobeying house rules (that "psych!" thing), he can recognize when he's said something unkind and apologize, he can wait an appropriate amount of time to speak or for us to respond to him, etc.  They don't turn him into a zombie.  They allow the good-hearted caring person that he is to shine through.

[Storygirl]

Garga!! Your son and mine must be twins. I could have written your post. DS10 is unable to moderate his behavior when off his meds, and it causes complete chaos for the family. DS10 prefers taking the medication now, because he is able to make the choice to behave better.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

I think medication in combination with therapy is important. Medication alone does not "heal" the condition, but true healing comes out of intentional behavior adjustments. Medication helps if your wiring makes it painful or just plain impossible to make those important behavior adjustments. The illness isn't that your brain works differently, its that it can actually cause pain and angst to try to change its patterns. It is important to receive counselling along with medication in order to develop appreciation and non-judgment about her challenging brain-type. But to medicate is still your choice, and I wouldn't say you had to do it unless the evidence pointed to it being a positive in your child's therapy. 

 

I do feel that alternative therapies can play a role. So can modifying expectations of your child's performance. Making lessons shorter, teaching to strengths, and using play to motivate your child to learn even if your child seems a little beyond that stage in age, could help. If medication was not something you wanted to consider until your child is a bit older, you could use therapy, and modify your teaching, and continually evaluate until you were sure of the decision.