Saxon - end of the book issues....

[Another Lynn]

My just turned 11yo dd used Saxon (5/4 - yes, she's a bit "behind") for the first time this past school year (5th grade).  Previously she used CLE.  (Not the point of my post, but we switched to prepare her for textbook work instead of workbook, to prepare for using Saxon for upper level maths and because SAT-10 math test scores were a bit low - they did improve this spring, by the way).  Anyway, we didn't finish the book before we started our summer break.  Now, we're ready to jump back in around lesson 95.  Most of the new topics for the level are in lessons 95 and higher.  I looked at the next level and again, most of the newer stuff starts around Lesson 95 and continues to the end.  My concern is that all the great spiraling, repetitive practice (which this child needs) is happening with review topics, and less so with the newer topics that aren't being introduced until the end of the book.  Has anyone else had this concern with Saxon?  With CLE it seemed like the last Light Unit had easier, lighter, less foundational topics.

[stupidusername]

Saxon introduces lots of new topics late in 5/4 and then revisits those same topics over and over again in 6/5. I don't see this as a problem. If this material is too hard for your daughter, she should drop back to the middle or beginning of the book.

[hsmom10]

I have found the most new material to happen in those final lessons as well.  I have also found it to be covered in the spiral method in the next level books.  Every new level spends a lot of time going over what was taught in the previous level.

[Spring Flower]

It seems like the last 15 lessons in each Saxon book are completely new concepts that are only meant to be introduced, not mastered. 

[kiana]

The review for those will happen in the next book as others said.

 

You may have to go back a few lessons to get back into the swing of things.

[Another Lynn]

I don't mind reviewing a bit as we jump back in.  She didn't do horribly the first lesson back, so I don't think she needs to back up.  My concern is that I'm seeing things introduced here at the end, and as Spring Flower said they are introduced and not mastered, but then I'm not seeing them come up again in 6/5 until past half way through the book.  That's a long time to wait to get back to important grade level material.  If I'm picturing the spiral as the spiral that goes up a screw, I feel like the top of the spiral barely hits the topics she needs and then drops us way back down to the bottom (beginning of the next level) and we have to slowly wind our way back up again.  I feel like it will take a long time to get back to the meaty topics again.  And then we will only see them a short time before we plummet back down again.  I also understand that she is where she is and I don't want to rush her through foundational concepts.  On the other hand, maturity should gain us something at some point - and though we may never "catch up" entirely, we should at least experience some gains.  I feel like we're looking at one step forward and then three steps back. 

 

ETA:  To give a couple examples of what I'm complaining about.....  Reducing fractions is taught in Lesson 112 of 5/4.  Reducing fractions isn't taught in 6/5 until Lesson 81 !  Common Denominators is taught in Lesson 116 in 5/4.  Common Denominators is not taught in 6/5 until Lesson 116.  Multiplying by a two digit number is Lesson 113 in 5/4; it doesn't show up in 6/5 until Lesson 51. 

 

Maybe that's okay if you're using Saxon ahead of grade level, but if you're using it behind grade level then it seems to me like my student is getting further behind than she already is because she's not given an opportunity to learn and practice new and difficult concepts until late in the book when it's not really expected that the new stuff will be learned - just introduced.  So, do we have to wait until 7/6 to start mastering fraction operations?  That seems unnecessarily late to me, especially in the case of someone who is behind a level. 

[RegularMom]

In our experience, using Saxon since kindergarten, every level introduces difficult concepts at the end of the book. It makes the end of the year tedious sometimes, yes, but then, it seems like having a break from math for a couple of months, and then slowly easing back into it with all the review really works for my girls. It's almost as if their brains need the time to let those concepts simmer, and then when they see them again the next year, all the way past Lesson 80, they're like: "oh yeah... I remember that stuff... no problem." And thus, things like long division, fractions and other concepts that many kids get stuck on just somehow become a non-issue.

 

I wouldn't worry about how long it takes to get to those concepts in the 65 book. But as much as possible, I'd try to get into a cycle where you finish a book at the end of one year and begin the next one the following year. We actually base our school year end times by when we finish math and grammar. We always finish those two books. It's non-negotiable here. YMMV. HTH.

[The Governess]

I agree with you that this can be a big issue. I don't really understand the idea behind introducing a concept (and not a small concept, something basic like the subtraction algorithm, although I forget exactly which concept I noticed this with) and then not practicing it again for a year.

 

I would find something to supplement her problem areas that will allow her to continue practicing all year.

[Hunter]

Saxon is getting more rigorous and wider with each edition. It makes it harder and harder to finish the book. The books must be finished to use the series, though. If you cannot finish the books before breaks, then I think it's best to use another curriculum.

 

I do not disagree with how the lessons are presented. Saxon is about overlearning. This is what overlearning looks like. It's rare for anyone to complain about the practice of overlearning in Latin, but it's common to complain about it with Math. Mixed problem sets whether math, grammar or Latin need to be EASY, or they are overwhelming.

 

"Meaty" math lessons are best presented with problem sets of just one type. I do not like mixing "meaty" and mixed problem sets. I think the combination is cruel and unnecessary for most students.

 

It is VERY rare for me to suggest dropping Saxon, but truly not being able to finish books, and having no way to remedy that, is a good reason to drop Saxon.

[Another Lynn]

Thank you all so much for understanding my complaint and giving me advise.  Feeling confirmed in what Saxon is doing helps me decide how to work with it best or to switch to something else.  Thanks!!

[RootAnn]

I understand & have seen this myself in A Beka's spiral (although some of their levels don't have as much review as others). Here are two things I've done to compensate for this when we work year-round, when we're "behind", or when there's just "too much review."

- You can have her "test through" the first bunch of lessons in the next level until she gets below a certain score (some say 80%, some 90%). Back up five lessons & start there.

- You can do half New Material & half Review by mixing books (half the week in the old book, half in the new book). Yes, you move slower through both books, but by the time you get to the second half of the higher book, it is reviewing the New Material from the old book right after it has been introduced. And, the couple of days a week you work on the review from 6/5 make them feel like math is still "easy" and they move through the lesson quickly.