New Puppy Question

[Alice]

It seems lately that the boards are becoming the Well-Trained Puppy Forum but like others who have started threads, we also got a new puppy this summer and I figured where else but here to turn for advice...

 

We are first time dog-owners. We adopted a five-month old lab-beagle-shepherd-something mix from a rescue group about a month ago. She was part of a litter that friends of ours had fostered. She is really a great, laid-back, sweet dog. The one issue we have is that she usually doesn't sleep through the night. Sometimes she will go from 10:30 or 11 until 5am but that is the longest. More typically she wakes at 3:30 or 4 am. She whines (she sleeps in her crate) and then we let her out to pee. She almost always goes immediately. Then when we bring her back in, if we try and put her back in the crate she will whine or cry. If we come out and sleep on the sofa in the same room as her she will be quiet, even sometimes in her crate. 

 

I completely understand that she is still a baby and this might just be normal behavior for a puppy. I also know that she was with our friends as a foster at about 1 month of age until we adopted her at 5 months and she always had other dogs nearby. So we know it's an adjustment for her to be alone.  I more want to make sure we are doing the right things now to help her eventually sleep longer and ideally alone at night. 

 

Other things to consider...

*We try to give her a lot of exercise. I take her on at least two longish (1.5 miles each) walks a day at dawn and dusk. It's been so hot here it's hard to take her on long walks during the day but we take her on multiple short walks or get hr out in the backyard to run around and play with the kids for short bursts until everyone is too hot. We can't let her be in the backyard alone yet because although it is fenced, there are some areas where the fence is not secure. 

 

*We try to avoid giving her food and water for at least an hour before bedtime. I take her out one last time before I go to bed so she can pee one more time. Typically she eats around 6ish, goes out to potty quickly after that, then I take her for a longish walk somewhere between 8 and 9 and then I take her out one more time quickly to pee around 10 and then we go to bed. We'd love it if she could sleep until 5 am. 

 

*She is currently sleeping in a crate in our main living area. We have a split foyer house and she is upstairs where our bedrooms are as well as the living room/kitchen/dining room. We have thought about moving her downstairs where she would be less likely to be awakened if our daughter has a bad dream or wets the bed (several times that has happened and then she is up and doesn't want to go back to sleep.) However, I feel like she would be more isolated and even lonelier and we also wouldn't hear her if she did need to go to the bathroom.

 

I know people are going to suggest having her sleep in our room. Dh is really against that. He never grew up with pets and he's happy to have the dog (it was partially his idea) but he is not excited about her being in our room at night. He would rather come out and sleep on the sofa to keep her company and work toward her being alone. 

 

*She does like the crate. She was already crate-trained when we got her and it's kind of her happy place. She goes there voluntarily during the day and often naps there even when we are home. So I don't think the problem is that she doesn't like the crate. 

 

Ok..if you've read this long...

*Should we just hang in there and keep doing what we are doing? 

*Are we creating bad habits by sleeping with her if we don't want to do it permanently? 

*Any other suggestions for how we can gently help her to sleep better? 

 

 

[mmasc]

Congratulations on your new puppy! I've had a bit of a similar experience as you, and was in your spot about a year ago. :) Although, we aren't first time dog owners! We adopted a 5-6 month old boxer from foster care and he was crate trained. He did the same thing as your pup. He'd want out early, then whine about going back to his crate. If you want to keep her crate trained, then you must put her back in after the early morning potty. We stopped with ours, and he started resisting his crate when we'd leave too. It really sounds like you're doing the most important thing, which is giving her PLENTY of exercise before bed. I would suggest not sleeping with her unless you do plan to move her into your room. She prefers to be with you, so she will quickly figure out that whining gets you out there with her! And of course she will continue. It is possible that she really needs to go pee and is waking you up. That's good! But it's also possible that she could hold it for a couple more hours and is just in the habit now. That's trickier to figure out. I tried sternly telling my pup 'No, go back to sleep.' So you could try that for a few consecutive nights and see how she does. If she doesn't have an accident, then you may be able to reset her clock. Of course, if she is still whining after 15 or so minutes, I'd probably take her out. But upon return, I would put her right back in the crate and tell her it's not find to get up, then go back to my bed.

I know it's not easy when they're little, but it really is just a phase (kind of like newborns lol!). I'm certain you can get to a point of her sleeping from 10-5. She probably is a bit lonely without her foster siblings, but she can adjust. And yes, once your child wakes up, she hears her people and thinks it's time to get up. My pup did the same thing. Within six months, he had it figured out though.

I know my reply is long, but I hope something in it is helpful. I'd just say in summary, to have patience and definitely consistency, and no sleeping on the couch unless you want that to be your new norm. Also, I'd talk to the foster. I'm sure they would have advice too.

[Pen]

I would guess that she really does need to pee and does not have a bladder large enough to go longer than what she is doing. I would tend to keep responding to her "asking to go out" since you are training her to tell you when she needs to go.

 

We have an old dog who can go amazingly long without needing to go out--but then when she does it is a right now emergency sort of thing. Our younger dog was able to be dry about as long as yours is managing at that age, maybe less. At over a year old he can now go about 9 hours at night most nights...but still sometimes has a need sooner than that...and he is not as clear about what he needs as yours, so be glad of the clear whining communication.

 

Possibly you can give her her last food and water earlier and get her to be more empty by bedtime.

 

Dogs are pack animals, and labs are particularly gregarious, so it is not a surprise she does not like being isolated. Can she sleep in your daughter's room? Maybe having the dog there would lead to fewer bad dreams? Or could she be in with the oldest child where it would be quieter?

[Pen]

...I tried sternly telling my pup 'No, go back to sleep.' So you could try that for a few consecutive nights and see how she does. If she doesn't have an accident, then you may be able to reset her clock. ...

 

Except that it could result in the dog thinking the "no" means don't make noise, and will not whine again but rather just pee in the crate.

[Pawz4me]

So she's about six months old now?  The general rule is that *most* puppies can hold it for the number of months they are old plus one.  So seven hours is about the longest you'd reasonably expect a six month old puppy to hold it.  Of course that's a general rule.  Some won't be able to hold it that long, and some will already have developed bladders of steel.

 

About that 8:00 or 9:00 walk -- is she coming back in and tanking up on water right after that walk?  I'm thinking if you could feed her a bit earlier and maybe get the walk in a bit earlier it might help.  I know the heat may be an issue in making it an earlier walk..  But if she is drinking a good bit afterwards, then taking the walk a bit earlier so that she has longer to process any water she drinks before the last potty outing may help.  If you feed her earlier and are worried about her being okay until breakfast time, it's fine to give her a dog biscuit as a bed time snack.

 

One thing you might try is something that's used for younger puppies, but might help her.  Get something that makes a steady, repetitive sound (like a clock that ticks) and put it beside her crate.  I'd turn it off during the day, so she associates the sound with sleepy time at night.  For younger puppies something like that is often suggested to kind of replace the sounds their mom and litter mates would make, and especially to mimic the steady beating of their mom's heart.  It might not help so much with an older puppy, but it won't hurt to try.

 

You might also spend some time every evening working on obedience commands and tricks.  Physical exercise is good, but absolutely nothing tires a dog out like mental exercise.

[mmasc]

Except that it could result in the dog thinking the "no" means don't make noise, and will not whine again but rather just pee in the crate.

That's definitely true...I'd much rather get up in the early morning, than have a dog start peeing in the crate!  Mine went from getting up very early like the OP, to now (1 year later) making it 8-9 hours a night easily.  It really is just a young puppy issue right now that will most likely resolve in a few short months.  Hang in there!

[Alice]

I would guess that she really does need to pee and does not have a bladder large enough to go longer than what she is doing. I would tend to keep responding to her "asking to go out" since you are training her to tell you when she needs to go.

 

Dogs are pack animals, and labs are particularly gregarious, so it is not a surprise she does not like being isolated. Can she sleep in your daughter's room? Maybe having the dog there would lead to fewer bad dreams? Or could she be in with the oldest child where it would be quieter?

 

Yes, my inclination now is to respond when she wakes up at night because I assume she does need to pee. She goes really quickly when we go out so I don't think she's just trying to play. 

 

I've thought about putting her in with the boys or our daughter.  But if she keeps waking at night to pee I'm worried then I'll have two babies awake in the middle of the night who won't go back to sleep. It is a good thought. We're in the middle of swim season and we haven't wanted to try her in with the boys and have their sleep disturbed since they are getting up early every day. Swim season is over in a week or two so we could try it then and see how it works.   We are trying to make sure to give her a lot of love and attention and exercise during the day so she doesn't spend much time in the crate alone except at night. 

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

So she's about six months old now?  The general rule is that *most* puppies can hold it for the number of months they are old plus one.  So seven hours is about the longest you'd reasonably expect a six month old puppy to hold it.  Of course that's a general rule.  Some won't be able to hold it that long, and some will already have developed bladders of steel.

 

About that 8:00 or 9:00 walk -- is she coming back in and tanking up on water right after that walk?  I'm thinking if you could feed her a bit earlier and maybe get the walk in a bit earlier it might help.  I know the heat may be an issue in making it an earlier walk..  But if she is drinking a good bit afterwards, then taking the walk a bit earlier so that she has longer to process any water she drinks before the last potty outing may help.  If you feed her earlier and are worried about her being okay until breakfast time, it's fine to give her a dog biscuit as a bed time snack.

 

One thing you might try is something that's used for younger puppies, but might help her.  Get something that makes a steady, repetitive sound (like a clock that ticks) and put it beside her crate.  I'd turn it off during the day, so she associates the sound with sleepy time at night.  For younger puppies something like that is often suggested to kind of replace the sounds their mom and litter mates would make, and especially to mimic the steady beating of their mom's heart.  It might not help so much with an older puppy, but it won't hurt to try.

 

You might also spend some time every evening working on obedience commands and tricks.  Physical exercise is good, but absolutely nothing tires a dog out like mental exercise.

 

Thanks for the suggestions! I will try the walk a little earlier to see if that helps. She doesn't drink a ton of water after it but even the little bit of extra time before the final potty break might be good. 

 

I like the idea of the clock. The kids have some white noise makers that make a heart beat noise. Maybe I'll borrow one of theirs and see if it helps. 

 

And I like the mental exercise idea. Thanks!