AAS not transferring into writing

[*Jen*]

My 9 year old is having a horrible time with spelling.  We've used AAS for several years but he has just now gotten about half way through level 3. In 1st grade he breezed through level 1.   In second grade we started level 2, stopped for a few months because it was causing tears, and then started over again.  By the beginning of 3rd grade he had finished level 2 and started 3.  Again this year it caused tears, so we put it aside for awhile working on copy work and reviewing dictation sentences from level 2. In the past few months we have started up again on level 3 and he is about 1/2 way through the book.

 

While doing the lessons he has no problem spelling the words, he can spell them orally, written or with tiles.  Has no problem writing the dictation sentences.  Our big problem is that it doesn't carry over to any other writing!  Writing a 3 sentence email to his grandma he will stop to ask how to spell words that he had just spelled the day before in AAS.  It's like his brain can't function to compose a sentence and spell words correctly at the same time.   He also had trouble with the spelling section on the DORA test and only tested at a high 1st grade level even though the rest of his scores were well above 3rd grade level.  

 

He also has a lot of difficulty with any writing other than copywork.  He has beautiful handwriting and loves to write cursive, but putting an original thought down (even if I'm writing for him) is awful. We are going to put a lot of focus onto writing this summer and coming school year, but I'm not sure if I should continue to move forward with spelling or let it wait until writing is less of a struggle for him. 

 

Any suggestions on if we should continue with AAS, wait for writing to improve, another program, or suggestions on how to help original writing to be less of a struggle? 

 

 

[TheAttachedMama]

My children are younger, so feel free to disregard my reply.    BUT I was just listening to a lecture by Susan Wise Bauer on teaching writing in the Elementary years.  According to her, it is perfectly normal for the various language skills used in writing to remain 'isolated' in a child's head and not carry over when doing other tasks.  In fact, that is why she recommends practicing the various skills needed to write in isolation before attempting to combine them.    That way they can work on thinking about and mastering one thing at a time.  (She does a much better job of explaining it than I do.)   So in other words, say a child is attempting to write their thoughts down on paper in science class.  It takes SO MUCH brain power for them to 1)  take an abstract idea and put the idea into words, and 2) arrange those words in a way that expresses them in complete sentences, and 3)  put those complete sentences down on paper (the physical act of writing)....that they sometimes forget skills that they are able to show mastery in isolation like grammar, punctuation, spelling, handwriting, etc. etc. etc.    SO--what I would do is try watching your child as they write (if possible) and if you notice a word is misspelled that they should know...then perhaps stopping them and helping them fix it.  That way they get lots of practice seeing and printing the word correctly.    OR, perhaps go through and show the child how to edit their own writing and make changes if you can't watch them while they write. 

[Pink and Green Mom]

If I recall correctly, SWB (in one of her wonderful, fabulous I-cannot-live-without-them audio lectures) says not to worry if spelling and grammar don't translate into writing through 4th grade and maybe even into 5th.  My youngest sounds exactly like yours.  He does great with AAS as a subject but its application to his academic and "fun" writing is just downright awful.  He went back to school for 3rd grade and they use some other spelling program (or lack of program, just a random list of words) and his spelling did not improve one bit with that change.  In fact, I think it got worse (and I wasn't sure that was possible).

 

[Jess4879]

What part typically brings on tears?

 

We were in the exact same boat (minus the tears) with my now 10 year old.  I seriously considered dumping AAS, even though I love it.  But we spent a LOT of time reviewing level 3 and we are now on Lesson 11 of Level 4 and her writing has shown so much improvement the last few months. It blows me away.  She's 10 (will be 11 in November). 

 

[*Jen*]

My children are younger, so feel free to disregard my reply.    BUT I was just listening to a lecture by Susan Wise Bauer on teaching writing in the Elementary years.  According to her, it is perfectly normal for the various language skills used in writing to remain 'isolated' in a child's head and not carry over when doing other tasks.  In fact, that is why she recommends practicing the various skills needed to write in isolation before attempting to combine them.    That way they can work on thinking about and mastering one thing at a time.  (She does a much better job of explaining it than I do.)   So in other words, say a child is attempting to write their thoughts down on paper in science class.  It takes SO MUCH brain power for them to 1)  take an abstract idea and put the idea into words, and 2) arrange those words in a way that expresses them in complete sentences, and 3)  put those complete sentences down on paper (the physical act of writing)....that they sometimes forget skills that they are able to show mastery in isolation like grammar, punctuation, spelling, handwriting, etc. etc. etc.    SO--what I would do is try watching your child as they write (if possible) and if you notice a word is misspelled that they should know...then perhaps stopping them and helping them fix it.  That way they get lots of practice seeing and printing the word correctly.    OR, perhaps go through and show the child how to edit their own writing and make changes if you can't watch them while they write. 

 

 

 

If I recall correctly, SWB (in one of her wonderful, fabulous I-cannot-live-without-them audio lectures) says not to worry if spelling and grammar don't translate into writing through 4th grade and maybe even into 5th.  My youngest sounds exactly like yours.  He does great with AAS as a subject but its application to his academic and "fun" writing is just downright awful.  He went back to school for 3rd grade and they use some other spelling program (or lack of program, just a random list of words) and his spelling did not improve one bit with that change.  In fact, I think it got worse (and I wasn't sure that was possible).

 

Thanks to both of you. I've been meaning to listen to SWB's lecture about writing but just haven't found the time yet.  Will put that at the top of my to do list before picking books for next year.

 

 

What part typically brings on tears?

 

We were in the exact same boat (minus the tears) with my now 10 year old.  I seriously considered dumping AAS, even though I love it.  But we spent a LOT of time reviewing level 3 and we are now on Lesson 11 of Level 4 and her writing has shown so much improvement the last few months. It blows me away.  She's 10 (will be 11 in November). 

 

Just the mention of working on it would bring tears and have him trying to crawl under the table.  He has a lot of problems with things not coming easy and not being perfect.  So writing and spelling have been a huge problem since grammar, phonics, math, science etc have come so easy for him.  

[Farrar]

I think there should be a big lag time between learning to spell the word in spelling and actually applying it during your own writing.  Like others said, that's like trying to rub your tummy and pat your head at the same time for new learners.

 

On the other hand, I think both skills should be consistently (if slowly) improving.  And if they're not, that would concern me more.  Also the tears.  The tears would concern me.

 

AAS has been a great gift for my struggling speller.  In just over a year, he's improved greatly.  His spelling in his own writing is still not great for his age, but it is miles better than it was a year ago.  But if you're not seeing that sort of improvement, there are other programs out there.

[mirabillis]

We're headed into AAS 7 for my oldest, and my youngers heading into AAS 1, AAS 2, & AAS 4, respectively. We love the program. It really teaches the whys. And it really does build up. My DS12 is a pretty great speller, and I see my DD10 ramping up as well, slowly but surely. It's really a great, simple program.

[Jess4879]

 

 

 

 

Just the mention of working on it would bring tears and have him trying to crawl under the table.  He has a lot of problems with things not coming easy and not being perfect.  So writing and spelling have been a huge problem since grammar, phonics, math, science etc have come so easy for him.  

 

My middle kiddo can be very discouraged when she gets anything wrong.  We have to remind her over and over again that she's just learning and these mistakes are good things.  I still don't think she sees the "good", but it does seem to help.  Typing, for example, she loves so long as she's doing well.  She's hit a point where her speed just isn't there and she can't really move forward.  We chose to set it aside. She was crying and it simply wasn't worth the struggle at this exact moment. 

 

Because your little guy is still young, what about using copywork only for spelling for a year?  Maybe just taking a year off from AAS and letting him gain some confidence will help. 

 

Best of luck!!

[Kuovonne]

As others have explained, halfway through AAS 3 is too soon to see the effects

transfer to writing for a student who struggles with both spelling and writing.

 

The fact that he can do the dictations shows that the program is working.

I would focus on *lots* of review of old words, until he can spelling them

without having to stop and think, even . Even then, don't drop review

of old words completely, but gradually increase the time between reviews.

He should be able to spell *most* of the review words easily and correctly

the first time, or he isn't getting enough review.

 

Reviewing lots of words that he can spell will give him a sense of success.

It will also help make spelling those words automatic, which is

necessary for spelling skills to transfer to original writing.

[MerryAtHope]

Writing a 3 sentence email to his grandma he will stop to ask how to spell words that he had just spelled the day before in AAS.  It's like his brain can't function to compose a sentence and spell words correctly at the same time.   

 

That's exactly what happens to many kids. They are using a different part of the brain when they are trying to come up with what to say. Think about all the things he has to focus on at once--content, audience, grammar, punctuation, capitalization, typing or handwriting...and spelling.  Just like babies will say things like "bakie" for blanket as they are trying to learn how to put speech skills together, so kids, when they are learning how to write, will often leave parts out of words (or sentences, or thoughts...) For some kids, all of these skills don't come together until junior high (and for those that really struggle, it might take longer).  Here's an article  with ideas that can help when you are working on spelling in the context of writing (but I would just help with things like emails to Grandma--I don't spend a lot of time having the student work through editing their own work until after they are very confident in using editing skills with dictation.)

 

As far as the tears, I had some subjects that really upset my kids too. Some things that helped here:

 

-I let them tell me what about the subject upset them. I let them know the subject wasn't optional, but how we did it was, and we could change how we did it. 

 

-recognize that the subject is hard work, and that you know he's working hard. Sometimes that's what we have to do. We don't always love everything we do, and it isn't always easy--but we still have to do it (I looked for various things over the years to model and discuss this with my kids)

 

-I reinforced that mistakes are normal, and we have to learn how to live with them. (Hey, I'd love to never make mistakes, but life's not that way!) I helped them realize mistakes are not as big a deal as they think--some kids are such perfectionists! And it can take years to help them realize...it's okay. Use mistakes to help you.

 

-make that subject as low pressure as you can. If mom is tense and upset, our kids reflect that.

 

-Set goals like  "let's work for 15 minutes, and then it's snack time." So there's something to look forward to afterwards. Or incorporate a snack. Maybe he gets 3 m&m's after every word he spells correctly or something. (We had tears over math, and using things like cheerios, raisins, peanuts, and sometimes m&m's as manipulatives and then eating them made it more tolerable). Or other incentive.  

 

-I let them see when something was a struggle for me, so they could see how I deal with something hard. 

 

-add more games in to work on concepts. My son liked to pretend tile words were rockets and had them blast off. Or he would make a word and then have it "explode." Let him have these fun diversions, even if it means slowing down how quickly you work through some lessons right now. In the long run, him having a more positive attitude will be worth it. You can do things like play Sorry or another favorite game for spelling time, and make it word review day--each player spells a word before his or her turn. Or review one of the other types of cards with each turn.

 

If handwriting is still difficult for him, let him sometimes spell words using a finger in sand or cornmeal or another tactile surface. Here are some kinesthetic  ideas that can make it more fun too.

 

Hang in there! Spelling didn't come easy for either of mine either, but they do get it!

 

Merry :-)