Remedial/easy courses? (Sorry, long, but I need help!)

[wendybern]

Background: I need help thinking through how to proceed with dd16's coursework for the next two years. We adopted her at almost-12; before then she had been in foster care (until 10 with others, then with us), moved from family to family, school to school, and consequently her development, while always progressing, is "behind" a few years (sorry to say "behind," hate comparing kids, but don't know how else to communicate this). She is a concrete thinker by nature, and just this last year has been advancing in logical thinking, but anything abstract (whether a math word problem or a what-do-you-think essay) and she just freezes and is frustrated and gets very little done. Also, she loves to read and will stay up all night to read Ender's Game, but a 2-page short story by Poe will take her 6 hours of complaining and avoiding followed by skimming and bluffing. Her goal is to be a paramedic or a nurse. At this point, I can't see her succeeding in a university setting, but she could probably do well in the paramedic program if she had help to break down the reading; her memory for concrete facts is amazing.

 

My question: I am thinking I need to give up the idea of prepping her for college, and instead just accept her where she's at. That would mean easier reading levels (maybe middle-school level texts), not much writing, lots of hands-on science, and overall a focus on her strengths and prepping her for the paramedic courses, instead of working on her weaknesses. Certainly she'd enjoy school more and feel better about herself, but she wouldn't be ready for college after high school (although I don't know if I could make that happen anyway). What do you think?

 

And do you have any suggestions for curriculum that is easy to understand?

 

THANK YOU.

 

Wendy

[Brenda in MA]

Wendy,

 

First, good for you for adopting this young lady and giving her a second chance. I admire you for that.

 

Second -- I'm wondering if maybe the approach should be to treat her as schooling a couple of years behind where she is. So if she's doing 9th grade work next year, consider her in 9th grade (in your mind) and think about 4 years of high school to prep her for possible college. Just meet her where she's at and see how she does.

 

After 2 more years, when she's 18yo, you can reassess and see where to go from there. It could be that she's matured a lot and the best route is 2 more years of high school and then a 4-yr college for nursing. It might also be that at 18yo, she's mentally ready to move on, so you have her take the placement test at the local community college and see about enrolling her there to finish up any remedial high school work and start on college-level work towards the paramedic route.

 

I guess what I'm thinking is that it might be best to try and keep her options open right now as much as you can and just assess the situation on a year to year basis.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[Atilla the Mom]

Both my kids are adopted, my eldest came home with kwashiorkor and a bunch of learning disabilities, now mostly overcome.

 

With respect to Enders Game and Edgar Allen Poe short stories, the difference between them is that Enders Game is adventurous sci fi and Poe is horror.  I myself love sci fi and am a voracious reader (and yes, I have read the Ender series) but I absolutely loathe and detest horror in all its forms whether we are discussing Kafka, (Metamorphosis gave me nightmares); Gogol, (I took several hours to get through The Overcoat because I felt overwhelmed by pain for that poor smuck), or Poe. Some stupid teacher had us listen to a recording of the Pit and the Pendulum one Halloween when I was in fourth grade and I screamed and ran out of the room part-way, falling over kids, chairs and desks in the process.  They let me spend the rest of the afternoon in the nurse's office.  I  still can't sit though a lot of modern movies although I managed to get through the Star Wars series by standing by the door of the theatre room, and opening it a crack whenever I felt a bit overwhelmed.  Even some of the GREAT animated movies out there today are too overwhelming for me; I have to watch them in bits on DVD.  I had a good childhood, while your kid has been in foster care.  Horror stories may trigger bad memories in her. 

 

My eldest was also a very concrete thinker, quite late.  She didn't visualize at all well, and that is probably your kid's problem.  For that, I would do manipulative based math with her, and try Lindamood Bell's On Cloud Nine Visualizing and and Verbalizing for math program.  http://www.ganderpublishing.com/On-Cloud-Nine/What-Is-On-Cloud-Nine.html . If she hasn't memorized her math facts, I would make sure she does so, using drill software and stuff like the Keys to Math series.  There is only so much capacity in anybody's brain, and if she has to spend it all on trying to figure out what it means for two cars to reach each other from separate directions when she can't visualize the cars, their vectors or the road, she won't have the capacity to remember her math facts without prior drill. 

 

There are plenty of routes to college if she wants to be a nurse or a paramedic. I would begin by having her take a phlebotomy course and a Red Cross BLS course and having her work part time as a phlebotomist and nursing assistant. After a few months, she should take a course to prepare her for the CNA exam, which is straightforward and can be memorized.  This will give her better pay and confidence.  After she has had some experience doing that, she may be ready to start working on her LPN; most LPN programs require a CNA. This does require a semester of anatomy and physiology, but if she is good at memorizing she will be able to handle that. She will be doing that at a community college, most likely. Math will be a curveball, so you need to get her up to college algebra.  It can be done.  My eldest did it.  After an LPN, there are bridge programs to the RN, and from the RN to the nursing bachelors. 

 

For paramedic, I would again start with phlebotomy but do Red Cross BLS, Lifesaving, First Aid and ACLS coursework.

 

I also had trouble with the open ended type of verbal question, especially when people started asking stuff like, "What is the theme etc. but I managed to deal with them by treating them as variables in an equation.  For example,

 

THE QUESTION:  What do you think is the theme of The Tell-Tale Heart?  Write a paragraph, giving at least five reasons.

 

ME: (To myself, get a grip, it's just words on paper, it can't hurt you.  Just start writing the framework )

 

1. The theme of The Tell-Tale Heart is <A.> The <B>  symbolizes <C>. Another symbol is <D> which represents <E>

 

Then you go back and fill in the blanks. If you can't deal with it at first, you throw in some ringers and move on. 

 

2. The theme of The Tell-Tale Heart is <undying love>.  The <cabbage> symbolizes <C." Another symbol is <the pencil>, which represents <E>

 

You then start dealing with the ringers, little by little, just putting down ideas.

 

3. The theme of The Tell-Tale Heart is <love/madness/monstrosity/guilt.>  The heart symbolizes <the old man/human condition/conscience>.  Another symbol is the eye which represents <Conscience/God/Satan/>> etc.

 

You pick one or two of  each category.

 

4. The theme of The Tell-Tale-heart  is the interaction between love and madness.  The heart symbolizes the old man. Anothor symbol is the eye, which represents conscience. 

 

And so on.  After awhile you can let the props fall away and it smoothes out into an essay.

 

 

 

 

 

[wendybern]

Brenda, thank you for your suggestions. That makes sense, just consider her 8th or 9th grade, teach to that, and let it evolve. She does make progress, so she may yet catch up over the next couple of years. 

 

Atilla (love that name, lol), the slow start, step-by-step progression into nursing is a good idea. Her brain will be done cooking one of these days. :) LOVE the fill-in-the-blank route to essay writing! Brilliant. She would take right to that. I will look at the Cloud Nine materials; had never heard of that before.

 

Thanks so much to both of your for your time and suggestions.

 

Wendy

[MiMi 4under3]

After 2 more years, when she's 18yo, you can reassess and see where to go from there. It could be that she's matured a lot and the best route is 2 more years of high school and then a 4-yr college for nursing. 

 

FWIW, usually the older nursing students do better in nursing school because of their maturity and experience. 

 

Your DD could also do a 2 year LPN course after 2 extra years of high school, and still graduate "on time" with a nursing degree! 

[SailorMom]

It sounds like she has what it takes for nursing :)  Concrete thinking, hands on science, etc.  I probably missed it (haven't had all my coffee yet), but where is she in math? 

There is a nursing program at the CC here and at many of them, she'd have to get a good score on the Accuplacer/Compass (which ever test they use near you) which would include math, sentence structure, and reading comprehension.  But - she sounds like she could probably already do pretty well on that. 

I say meet here where she is, focus her studies on what she will need to get into nursing school, and everything else can be gravy.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Would IEW work for writing?   It's laid out with an almost fill in the blank style at first.  We've only been using it for a couple months but DS's writing has improved tenfold.  He has learned how to find the most important ideas and turn them into short essays in his own words.  He sometimes goes a bit overboard with his "quality adjectives" but his writing is good now, he couldn't string 2 sentences together before.  I would also let her read what she wants, as long as she can analyse/discuss it, or write a short essay about it (look into classical or highly regarded adventure stories).  Poe and his ilk are wonderful, but if she's having that much trouble then she's not really learning.

 

Depending where you are with Math, Walch Education has several different math texts (Power Basics) that cover Algebra 1 and Geometry at a lower reading level (worked great for my Dyslexic kid).  They also have Science, History, and Language Arts (mostly Grammar) but I haven't tried those. http://walch.com/power-basics-text-books/  They are quick and easy to finish but not really "in depth".  The cost is reasonable too (cheaper on Amazon).  

 

As for College/University, it is most definitely still a possibility. I would spend the next 2 years getting her ready for CC, which will in turn prepare her for a University.

 

 I would also consider that a 4 year is not needed to get her where she wants to go.  Our local CC (statewide and highly regarded)  offers an Assoc. of Nursing which ... "As a graduate of the ASN Program, you will be eligible to apply to take the NCLEX-RN examination to become Registered Nurses"   or they also offer a 1 year LPN certificate, and their Paramedic degree takes 2 years.  

 

[wendybern]

Mimi, I agree with you, being a little older would be an advantage in nursing studies. I can get outside of the graduate-at-18-then-college box, but it is hard for a 16yo to understand that they aren't completely mature yet, lol.

 

Kristy, she did Algebra 1 last year and is just finishing geometry this week. She does pretty well with calculations, just lots of drama with word problems. She'll do Algebra 2 next. We use Math-U-See; the lessons are just-right-short and to the point. I think she will actually do okay on the CC placement test -- she does fine on the standardized tests we use each year for reporting, since they are pretty factual/concrete in format. "I say meet here where she is, focus her studies on what she will need to get into nursing school, and everything else can be gravy." -- that's what I'm struggling with. My instinct is to focus on science, with enough math to support the science, and go easy on her with the humanities. Is that "okay"? I think I need someone to give me permission to follow my instincts. :)

 

Foxbridge, funny you should mention IEW -- I was thinking about that all day! Attilla-the-mom's fill-in-the-blank essay format reminded me that when I used IEW with her in 6th grade, she loved it and did really well. So...why did I stop using something that was working? If I went back to IEW (wish I hadn't sold it) and used science for the writing topics, that could really work.  I will definitely look at Walch Education for some get-it-done courses.

 

Thank you so much, ladies; I feel my hope returning!

[Atilla the Mom]

With respect to easy courses, you probably want to do things that will count for both college and high school.  Your friend here is the CLEP exam.  http://clep.collegeboard.org/exam Their format is computer based testing, (done at a testing center with government ID required and probably biometrics in a year or less), with straight 4 answer multiple choice with no penalty for wrong answers, and they have a blessed simplicity about them, with far fewer word type problems.  They are WAY WAY easier than AP courses (which however are very much like real college courses, which is why I am making my normotypical 16 year old youngest kid fight her way through APs as well.).  You should look up the policy of your local CC and State Uni, but most accept oodles of CLEPs and DANTE exams hhttp://getcollegecredit.com/ because the veterans use these exams to get out of coursework, and the veterans, unlike our poor little first time freshman have powerful voting blocks protecting their interests. ( IMHO, this is the major reason why these older students manage to do so well when they return to college older and wiser a few years later.  All the military folks take this route.)  If you fail a CLEP exam, you can retake the exam a month later, no penalty. 

 

I strongly suggest you look at the CLEP College Math book and plan to have her take it this summer, CLEP College Algebra is really just Algebra II, and is in no way comparable to College Algebra even at the CC level, but COUNTS as College Algebra for credit.  There are  cram books in your local bookstore, and aim at getting done with all the core courses she will need to have for college.  Furthermore, having a bunch of college credits is wonderful for building confidence in a weak student. 

 

I would also look at getting the other core courses out of the way.  All 4 year colleges now have stupid distributional requirements like Music Appreciation etc nowadays which are REQUIRED, and which are NOT guts any more.  (Sheer rent seeking IMHO, and the uni's way of keeping their Music/Art/PE/Theatre departments alive when nobody in their right mind would take a course like music appreciation for a grade and for credit if not required to do so.  Real music lovers would just go to concerts, take music lessons, and read books.)  See if you can take them online long distance so you can help out.  At 16 she is old enough to take college courses at your local CC.

 

 

[MarkT]

Background: I need help thinking through how to proceed with dd16's coursework for the next two years. We adopted her at almost-12; before then she had been in foster care (until 10 with others, then with us), moved from family to family, school to school, and consequently her development, while always progressing, is "behind" a few years (sorry to say "behind," hate comparing kids, but don't know how else to communicate this). She is a concrete thinker by nature, and just this last year has been advancing in logical thinking, but anything abstract (whether a math word problem or a what-do-you-think essay) and she just freezes and is frustrated and gets very little done. Also, she loves to read and will stay up all night to read Ender's Game, but a 2-page short story by Poe will take her 6 hours of complaining and avoiding followed by skimming and bluffing. Her goal is to be a paramedic or a nurse. At this point, I can't see her succeeding in a university setting, but she could probably do well in the paramedic program if she had help to break down the reading; her memory for concrete facts is amazing.

 

My question: I am thinking I need to give up the idea of prepping her for college, and instead just accept her where she's at. That would mean easier reading levels (maybe middle-school level texts), not much writing, lots of hands-on science, and overall a focus on her strengths and prepping her for the paramedic courses, instead of working on her weaknesses. Certainly she'd enjoy school more and feel better about herself, but she wouldn't be ready for college after high school (although I don't know if I could make that happen anyway). What do you think?

 

And do you have any suggestions for curriculum that is easy to understand?

 

THANK YOU.

 

Wendy

 

Don't discourage reading if she likes to do it.  Why can't she do an analysis of "Ender's Game"?  Poe's work during his lifetime was not considered to be worthy for critical study either.  If you are homeschooling take advantage of that. It should be building a life skill of "reading comprehension". 

 

You should be thankful she is not doing all-day texting or non-stop video games.  Guaranteed to "soften" anyone's brain.

 

Explore career opportunities with her.

 

Jobs and career will be harder for our children.  Don't play too much "softball" it won't help in the long run.

 

 

[lmrich]

With such a rough start to her life, she might benefit from the blessing of time. Give her an extra year to grow and mature.

[Brenda in MA]

I say meet her where she is, focus her studies on what she will need to get into nursing school, and everything else can be gravy." -- that's what I'm struggling with. My instinct is to focus on science, with enough math to support the science, and go easy on her with the humanities. Is that "okay"? I think I need someone to give me permission to follow my instincts. :)

 

Foxbridge, funny you should mention IEW -- I was thinking about that all day! Attilla-the-mom's fill-in-the-blank essay format reminded me that when I used IEW with her in 6th grade, she loved it and did really well. So...why did I stop using something that was working? If I went back to IEW (wish I hadn't sold it) and used science for the writing topics, that could really work.  I will definitely look at Walch Education for some get-it-done courses.

 

Thank you so much, ladies; I feel my hope returning!

Wendy,

 

You have my permission to focus on science and math and go easy on the humanities. This doesn't mean don't do them, it just means to spend more time on the things that will lead her to the future she wants. I really think that in high school, everyone who wants to keep some semblance of sanity needs to make decisions on where to focus and where to just "get it done".

 

I don't know what you were planning on for history, but if she did US History, you could use the IEW American-History based writing books to go with it. You might also look at Lightning Lit for literature. They've got a couple of American Lit courses. You might also look into the Great Courses to help you out with history.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[CyndiLJ]

So we have five kids, all adopted internationally, all on their own schedule and doing very well...as long as I am realistic and NOT pretending they are further along than they really are.

 

Meet her where she is at.  Seriously important.  Don't play head games about it, it will harm her in the long run.  She might very well be capable of college work eventually, but NOT if you move her forward simply because her age doesn't match her grade level.

 

Right now, I have a 16 year old 7th grader, adopted at age 11 (1 month away from 12) who is truly 7th grade level and moving along just fine.  She is doing some high school work, such as history, which is easier to work with, but she is only 7th grade when it comes to reading and writing level.  She is progressing appropriately, but you simply can't rush it. In our case, our kids adopted at older ages had to learn English...but they also had to fill in basic knowledge gaps that most kids would not have to fill.  While she may or may not go to college, by giving her the gift of time, she will be fully capable of doing so should she so desire.

 

I second the comment above about checking out Walch Publishing titles, but also check out Pearson's AGS series...it is more graphically presented information broken down into clear content...far more like older style textbooks that explained things better.  They have a full line of high school content, lower reading level materials that are well done.  Let her move forward in the subjects she can...maybe with ESL textbooks, and then let her be what she really is in the subjects she struggles with.

 

It'll make all the difference in the world.

[wendybern]

Atilla, I hadn't thought of CLEP. That might be a great solution for doing away with some of the general ed classes that she's not strong at. Thank you.

 

Mark, I agree, I wouldn't have assigned Poe to her. She is taking an online English class with FLVS. We've used their English classes before and loved them, but (according to her wonderful teacher) the Common Core is responsible for replacing the reading selections with these more difficult, aged pieces. We're stuck with it for now.

 

Linda, Cindy, and Brenda, both more time, and more time on the subjects she's interested in, are good ideas. You've all given me a lot to think about. I appreciate the curriculum suggestions, especially for the get-it-done courses. I'm thinking now that we'll work mostly on the subjects that will prep her for the job she wants, and use the quick & easy curriculum for the rest. We'll probably go ahead and finish "high school," and then give her a year for work or volunteering in her interests before whatever's next.

 

I appreciate all of your suggestions and comments so much. You've been a huge help.

 

Wendy