lexi Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What grade level would this be for? What about the other books? Anyone have experience with these? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Jousting Armadillos and the next 2 books take you through Pre Algebra and Algebra I. That's usually between 7-9th grade--somewhere in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Here are a couple of posts where I've blathered about JA . . . I'm using it with my 6th grader, but it's PreAlgebra. 6th or 7th. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/503421-loving-jousting-armadillos-and-the-discovery-method/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/504146-jousting-armadillos-subtitled-why-do-i-read-this-board/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/507120-questions-about-jousting-armadillos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Can anyone compare the difficulty level of it to other pre algebra programs? So it would cover not only pre algebra but all concepts typically covered in an algebra 1 course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 It's not as hard as AoPS, but uses a similar method (discovery method) in which you are led in logical steps to derive a concept via solving problems. I'd say it's more challenging than MM but less challenging than AoPS. About the same challenging as Zaccaro? I'm not really familiar with traditional PreAlgebra programs, so I can't compare it directly, sorry. I'd say that JA (the only book of the three I've used) is of a similar difficulty to Jacob's Elementary Algebra. It's kind of meant to be a meld between Jacobs Elementary Algebra and Math a Human Endeavor. If you put all three books together, it is meant to cover PreAlgebra plus Algebra 1. I can't imagine that it's actually 3 years worth of work, though, I think you could easily do at least two books in one year. We did big chunks of MM6 and Zaccaro Real World Algebra alongside JA. JA by itself isn't a complete prealgebra, IMO. It doesn't do a through review of operations. It does introduce integers, and it teaches fractions, percents, ratios and proportions with variables, but it pretty much assumes you have them down with numbers. It doesn't really cover decimals at all, and no geometry or probability & statistics. THe other two books - Chuckles the Rocket Dog, Crocodiles & Coconuts - are they complete algebra 1? Well, depends on what you compare it to. They seem to hit most of what you see in other Algebra S&S, but not nearly as much as the behemoth AoPS book covers. Hard to say for sure. I think the program does what it does extremely well. I've loved using it for PreA, but as you can see I didn't use it alone. I decided not to continue with it for Algebra, because of the cost. It would cost $120 to buy both books and answer books. I got Aops for half that, and it covers way more ground. So it wasn't worth the investment for me. Of course if my kid crashes and burns with AoPS I may be back with my tail between my legs! But at this point I'm feeling like it's priced too high for the amount of supplementing I'd end up doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Thanks! That was very helpful! I'm also going to read back over the other threads you linked (when I'm not on my phone!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Stoker Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I decided not to continue with it for Algebra, because of the cost. It would cost $120 to buy both books and answer books. I got Aops for half that, and it covers way more ground. So it wasn't worth the investment for me. Of course if my kid crashes and burns with AoPS I may be back with my tail between my legs! But at this point I'm feeling like it's priced too high for the amount of supplementing I'd end up doing. Rose, are the books viewable at Google Books for you? I can see them (complete answer keys) from here, but I am not in the US, and I know that they don't always have the same things available in different countries. (For instance, I can never see any of the cool vintage LA stuff on Google Books that everybody talks about here!) It sounds as though you've moved on in any case, but thought I would mention it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas_mom Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Rose, are the books viewable at Google Books for you? Hello!!!! Link Please :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I haven't tried looking at google books, but you can see very extensive samples at the Arbor Center for Teaching site. http://www.arborcenterforteaching.org/publications/books/jousting-armadillos/ I wasn't happy about the price given the size of the books (and knowing that we'd need two in a year) but what tipped me against using them finally was lining the lesson-level scope and sequence out in a spreadsheet against the other Algebra programs I have, and noticing some pretty significant holes. Maybe not holes, actually, to be fair - if you lay the S&S of all *three* books out against AoPS, it covers mostly the same material - but some of that (ch. 1-number system 2- expressions and equations ,3 - one variable linear equations ,6 - Ratios and Percents ,7 - Proportions and 9 - Introduction to Inequalities) of AoPS was "covered" in JA, and I know for sure, having both books, that AoPS coverage is way more robust, and that we are by no means done with those topics after having done them in JA. Doing them in JA was the prealgebra introduction to the topics, but now we need to do them again, more deeply. So that if I compare all *three* books, costwise, to AoPS - $180 vs. $60 - and in terms of coverage - much less robust - it kind of became a no-brainer. Look, I'm a huge fan of JA, especially as an intro to algebra for young kids who are ready to start early but who maybe aren't ready for a full-on high school level algebra text. But from where I sit now - admittedly, at the beginning of the algebra journey - I'm not sure that it's the most cost-effective and efficient way to get where I want to go. I could absolutely see, if money were no object, running through all three Arbor books and then doing a more standard algebra 1 text, but whew, that is costly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas_mom Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I checked Google books and it says No Free Ebook. Bummer. But when I clicked on Books a Million, it's 22.50 each for the Answer Book and Textbook. I don't know the shipping. Link http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9780982136324 Never mind. You have to be a member of the Books A Million Club (pay 25.00 a year) to get the 22.50 price :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shburks Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I haven't tried looking at google books, but you can see very extensive samples at the Arbor Center for Teaching site. http://www.arborcenterforteaching.org/publications/books/jousting-armadillos/ I wasn't happy about the price given the size of the books (and knowing that we'd need two in a year) but what tipped me against using them finally was lining the lesson-level scope and sequence out in a spreadsheet against the other Algebra programs I have, and noticing some pretty significant holes. Maybe not holes, actually, to be fair - if you lay the S&S of all *three* books out against AoPS, it covers mostly the same material - but some of that (ch. 1-number system 2- expressions and equations ,3 - one variable linear equations ,6 - Ratios and Percents ,7 - Proportions and 9 - Introduction to Inequalities) of AoPS was "covered" in JA, and I know for sure, having both books, that AoPS coverage is way more robust, and that we are by no means done with those topics after having done them in JA. Doing them in JA was the prealgebra introduction to the topics, but now we need to do them again, more deeply. So that if I compare all *three* books, costwise, to AoPS - $180 vs. $60 - and in terms of coverage - much less robust - it kind of became a no-brainer. Look, I'm a huge fan of JA, especially as an intro to algebra for young kids who are ready to start early but who maybe aren't ready for a full-on high school level algebra text. But from where I sit now - admittedly, at the beginning of the algebra journey - I'm not sure that it's the most cost-effective and efficient way to get where I want to go. I could absolutely see, if money were no object, running through all three Arbor books and then doing a more standard algebra 1 text, but whew, that is costly! I'm planning to do JA with my son this fall (age 10 but more than ready for pre-A). While it's still a ways off, I'm curious to know what we should do after JA. I was leaning toward AoPS Algebra but wonder if I should use the other two Arbor Center books since he'll be on the young side. Do you have an opinion on that specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 In a perfect world, with no financial constraints, and with a 10 year old starting preAlgebra, I think my tentative plan would be to do all 3 Arbor Center books and then do AoPs Intro to Algebra. JA is nice preparation for the discovery method used in AoPS, and a kid might be fine going straight from JA to AoPS, but I would plan to make him pass the PreAlgebra section of Alcumus first. That's what my dd is spending this summer working on: Alcumus PreA, Zaccaro's Real World Algebra, and Zaccaro's Problem Solving Genius. Then we'll jump into AoPS Algebra. I decided to go that route largely for the financial reasons mentioned in the above post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shburks Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 In a perfect world, with no financial constraints, and with a 10 year old starting preAlgebra, I think my tentative plan would be to do all 3 Arbor Center books and then do AoPs Intro to Algebra. JA is nice preparation for the discovery method used in AoPS, and a kid might be fine going straight from JA to AoPS, but I would plan to make him pass the PreAlgebra section of Alcumus first. That's what my dd is spending this summer working on: Alcumus PreA, Zaccaro's Real World Algebra, and Zaccaro's Problem Solving Genius. Then we'll jump into AoPS Algebra. I decided to go that route largely for the financial reasons mentioned in the above post. Thanks! That IS my tentative plan! He's very bright and loves math (as I guess is apparent if you're starting a child in pre-A at that age), so he may be fine going straight from JA to AoPS but I don't want to push him too hard. I am making notes of your suggestions. I had looked at the Zaccaro's books but wasn't sure where to start. Are those appropriate for AFTER pre-A then? I'm also not familiar with Alcumus but I'm going to look that up as well. Finances aren't a HUGE consideration; not that we're rolling in money (who is?) but I have an only child and have been sending him to private school for the last three years, so I'm figuring as long as I stay within that budget, I'm saving us money! Thanks so much! Edited: So, I see Alcumus is an online part of AoPS! Going to see what all that means! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Zaccaro has a bunch of books, it's hard to figure out where they all fit! I have found that Real World Algebra is a great PreAlgebra/early Algebra supplement. It meshes very well with JA and with AoPS PreA and provides extra (really good) practice and an alternative way of explaining things, which can be very helpful. We did part of Challenge Math, that would come before RWA during offical "preAlgebra" or even 5th-6th grade math. The Problem solving book is really good, too, and I thought that it was important for my child to work through to help her with strategies for tackling Alcumus/AoPS type problems. It's also a kind of 6th grade math/preA supplement, it has lots of problems of various types, not broken down by the kind of operation you perform, but grouped by what kind of problem-solving technique may be useful. This kind of challenge - out of context word problems - helps me to feel sure that my kid has really mastered the math. I'm not at all trying to suggest that you would need to add these if you are using AoPS and the Arbor Center books! I feel like we're doing too much, maybe, but I'm just trying to be sure that her Pre-Algebra preparation is rock solid, and my dd really clicked with the Zaccaro books this year. She really clicked with everything math this year, so I probably could back off and streamline things at this point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shburks Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Zaccaro has a bunch of books, it's hard to figure out where they all fit! I have found that Real World Algebra is a great PreAlgebra/early Algebra supplement. It meshes very well with JA and with AoPS PreA and provides extra (really good) practice and an alternative way of explaining things, which can be very helpful. We did part of Challenge Math, that would come before RWA during offical "preAlgebra" or even 5th-6th grade math. The Problem solving book is really good, too, and I thought that it was important for my child to work through to help her with strategies for tackling Alcumus/AoPS type problems. It's also a kind of 6th grade math/preA supplement, it has lots of problems of various types, not broken down by the kind of operation you perform, but grouped by what kind of problem-solving technique may be useful. This kind of challenge - out of context word problems - helps me to feel sure that my kid has really mastered the math. I'm not at all trying to suggest that you would need to add these if you are using AoPS and the Arbor Center books! I feel like we're doing too much, maybe, but I'm just trying to be sure that her Pre-Algebra preparation is rock solid, and my dd really clicked with the Zaccaro books this year. She really clicked with everything math this year, so I probably could back off and streamline things at this point! Oh, gosh! Thanks so much for helping me understand Zaccaro books! I was already planning to use one of them alongside JA but wasn't sure which one to use! Like you, I really want to make sure pre-A is solid. He's ready for pre-A, but at the same time I don't want to give him a year that's too light and doesn't prepare him for Algebra and maths to come later. I really appreciate your insight. Thank you. I may hunt you down after we finish JA and ask these same questions all over again! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Following Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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