S/O Practice vs. strategy

[LaughingCat]

I have seen a "rule of thumb" thing where you turn to 5 pages randomly and:  Count the number of words per sentence, and then estimate an average sentence length.  It is not perfect, but it is something.  Usually, the shorter the easier.  

Isn't this basically what AR and Lexile level try to do though?  And those IMO do not reflect complexity of thought within the sentences.  Although I see Lexile does at least rank James higher than Thea

 

James and the Giant Peach AR 4.8 Lexile 870L

Thea Stilton and the Cherry Blossom Adventure (current Stilton book) AR 5.1 Lexile 750

[Lecka]

I think they give a higher score to longer books, too.  I think they might look at how long chapters are. 

 

I think books with shorter chapters and fewer pages will get a lower score. 

 

The thing about AR, I think, is that they do want you to read a certain number of pages, and so they want to give a shorter book fewer points than a longer book, so kids have to read more pages.  But it is okay with that program, if they read an easier book with more pages, instead of several "harder" books with fewer pages.

 

That is totally non-factual!!!!!  Just what I think, based on impression. 

 

Also I could be wrong about AR?  I think it is the points you get for reading books and taking a test on the computer? 

 

But -- if decoding is included -- I think it is possible that a Thea could have a higher decoding level than James and the Giant Peach.  In the preview I looked at -- I didn't see any hard words in particular, and I do in Geronimo Stilton.  So maybe decoding is weighted? 

 

Yeah -- they are not that helpful. 

 

I get a lot more out of reading 5 random pages and getting my own impression.... 

[MerryAtHope]

There are a lot of things that have helped reading here, but with regard to students who are already reading (not beginning readers) who are skipping those small words a/the etc..., a few things made a difference here:

 

-continuing to develop fluency on all the other words (when the surrounding words are easier, they don't need as much working memory and energy to focus on reading)

 

-flashcards on a variety of words

 

-letting the student commit to an error--not correcting immediately when a wrong word is said or when a word is skipped. Let the student finish the sentence and see if the student hears the error. If the reading level is too difficult, the student might not have any energy for thinking about comprehension, and might not notice skipped or mistaken words. But if not, usually the student can think about comprehension. Mistakes caught by the student paying attention to comprehension yielded better results here with regard to lessening the frequency of such mistakes over time. Obviously, if the student doesn't catch the error after the sentence, point it out. Too much interrupting seems to make the student rely more completely on the teacher rather than their own abilities, comprehension, and so on--they stop assessing and expect someone else to assess for them.

 

-not doing only cold readings. Let the student read the sentence or paragraph silently first and then read it out loud. (I've actually noticed one of my kids purposefully doing this with our Bible readings--I'll see the pause before reading the selection to at least scan the passage if not completely pre-read it before reading out loud.) I find this is especially helpful for kids with any kind of working memory issue and/or language issues--it can be hard for them to combine reading with speaking, and yet we need to hear them read out loud to have an idea of what they are able to do. 

 

[Lecka]

Thanks for some more great ideas!

[Pen]

Good point about the sentence complexity - she does struggle with that.  I have never been able to figure out how to rank books sentence complexity wise :thumbdown:

 

I have seen a lot of people on these forums talk about the point where their DC loved Geronimo (and Thea) Stilton books.   So I think that shows what point in a 'normal' reading progression her silent reading is at.   And it is very nice to see her chugging through a number of books with no push from me.   But I don't think she is at the "and now she's reading The Lightning Thief/Harry Potter" level.

 

At this time I'm not even 'nudging' her silent reading choices but I do keep an eye on what books she tries and likes and what she drops pretty quickly and I think James will be dropped (but you never know).

 

 

Personal experience here: Once ds got to stage like that (for him Magic Tree House, and Hank the Cowdog, but I think those are somewhat similar), he started choosing books himself, often from the library, and then sometimes I would buy him a whole set of whatever it was, since our library is limited. But we had a good children's librarian who was able to help point out other series he might like. He seemed to be able to tell what he could read, or not, and seemed himself to keep pushing the edge of what was just a bit harder. There was a fairly rapid acceleration from this stage to the Lightning Thief stage as his enjoyment of reading took hold and it stopped being drudgery and went into an upward spiral. I was available to help with words and so on, but gave him fairly free rein at that stage.

[Lecka]

My son is challenged by "wordy" language and word play. 

 

He is reading Harry Potter book 3 now, but I can skim through lower-level books and some I can tell he would not be able to follow.  It is the same with listening -- he loses track, or just gets bored. 

 

I look for books with a more bare-bones, direct style. 

 

He reads on his own sometimes, only books I leave for him.  He won't pick books from the library -- he has picked books that other boys in his class have liked. 

 

Mostly he does independent reading when I tell him he needs to do it. 

 

He is taking baby steps, though.  He did read Bad Kitty School Daze and a Ninjago comic book on his own this week.