I want to 'get' Miguon, I really do...

[A home for their hearts]

but I just cant wrap my brain around it.  I tried when my older 2 were younger and it flopped.  I  want to try it with my dd6 but it scares me.  The lab sheet annotations are no help.  I need something with more detail and scripted.  I've poured over Rosie's videos at EducationUnboxed but when I try the activities with my older dc I stutter because I guess I'm not understanding it enough myself to teach it.  ugh  I love the idea of it and want it ti work but it just doesnt.

[Mavy]

Are you starting with the Orange book and having trouble? You could start slow and always try asking the boards for help when needed. Or if it is just not your thing, don't fret, there are so many other good math options( Singapore, Math Mammoth, Rightstart, etc.).

[kitten18]

Watch the videos at education unboxed. They help tremendously, she is awesome.

[carriede]

Do you also have the lab annotations book? Without it, I can't make heads or tails of the workbook. It has all the explicit instructions of every Miquon page.

[LilBearsMama]

The First Grade Diary might help. It talks about how the program was used in the classroom. Notes to Teachers (I think that's the title) might also be helpful. Those two are the other teacher books for Miquon. I found Notes most helpful.

[kbutton]

Do you have a friend who knows Miquon at all? Maybe you could get someone else to "teach" you, and you could sit on the student side for a bit until you are comfortable. Or, you could practice on a friend, whether they know Miquon or not.

 

Sometimes trying to think of how to say it as the teacher and how the student might respond all at the same time is intimidating.

 

Don't be hard on yourself if it doesn't work out! It's not the only good math program available. An acquaintance of mine who likes scripted programs for math loves RightStart if you need other ideas (not to talk you out of Math Mammoth, which has a wonderful reputation).

[Walking-Iris]

I love Miquon, but if it's causing you stress, no worries. There's a ton of math materials out there. Miquon definitely has a learning curve and there were times I hated it when my oldest did it, but now that I'm on my second time it's easier.

 

The main thing is learning how to use the c-rods. I found that using an intro set of rods first was best because they usually come with an activity booklet. There's a lot of c-rods resources available, activity books and such, that you could get the benefit of the rods without using Miquon.

 

But there really is no point in making yourself miserable. If I truly hated something, I would change my approach. Especially in math. I try to avoid the math anxiety gremlins as much as possible. I wouldn't try to make a lesson around the rods. Just simply explore with them. Children are pretty good at picking up the parts to whole game aspect of them. Even if you move on to a different math program, keeping the rods available for free exploration isn't a bad idea.

[Walking-Iris]

Sorry double posted

[A home for their hearts]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement, and giving me permission to use something else. ;)  I do have the first grade diary, lab sheet annotations, and notes to the teacher.  I've been using the lab sheet annotations the most but they still aren't that helpful.  I'm going to re-read the other two.

 

We tried RightStart math a few years ago and my dc hated it, I also had trouble teaching it as well.  I've been using a lot of the videos at EducationUnboxed.  I try to take notes so I know what I'm doing when I sit down with my dc, I don't always have time for this (with 6 kids there isn't a lot of time for anything).  My older dc don't like using the rods, but I do see a difference in their understanding sometimes when we use them.  There are some concepts, thought, that the rods just seem to confuse them even more i.e. borrowing with subtraction. 

 

Math Mammoth seems to work but there are just so many problems on a page.  I finally gave myself permission to not make them do every single problem.  Still, having that many problems on a page can be very intimidating.

[SeaConquest]

 

Math Mammoth seems to work but there are just so many problems on a page.  I finally gave myself permission to not make them do every single problem.  Still, having that many problems on a page can be very intimidating.

 

This is what we do. I also use problem skipping as an incentive.

 

I tried Miquon, but it just wasn't for me. I'm still new to HSing, but I'm learning not to bother with curricula that just don't mesh with my style of teaching/learning. There's so much good stuff out there, and I feel like it needs to work for both my son and I. We do a couple of pages of MM, a page of this each day (http://www.amazon.com/Critical-Thinking-Activities-Pattterns-Imagery/dp/0866514716/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1392573336&sr=8-9&keywords=patterns+and+imagery), some Singapore CWP once per week, and read LOF/living math books. 

[Walking-Iris]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement, and giving me permission to use something else. ;)  I do have the first grade diary, lab sheet annotations, and notes to the teacher.  I've been using the lab sheet annotations the most but they still aren't that helpful.  I'm going to re-read the other two.

 

We tried RightStart math a few years ago and my dc hated it, I also had trouble teaching it as well.  I've been using a lot of the videos at EducationUnboxed.  I try to take notes so I know what I'm doing when I sit down with my dc, I don't always have time for this (with 6 kids there isn't a lot of time for anything).  My older dc don't like using the rods, but I do see a difference in their understanding sometimes when we use them.  There are some concepts, thought, that the rods just seem to confuse them even more i.e. borrowing with subtraction. 

 

Math Mammoth seems to work but there are just so many problems on a page.  I finally gave myself permission to not make them do every single problem.  Still, having that many problems on a page can be very intimidating.

 

When you do a subtraction problem with the rods like this it helps to turn them vertical rather than horizontal.

 

It's also very important they understand how place value works with the rods. I would print out a sheet, or simply hand make one that had two columns for ones and tens place.

 

Show a number (27 for example) and demonstrate that there are 2 tens and 7 ones here. They may need work showing that those white rods line up to the ten. When they understand that two orange and 7 white mean 27, then show them how to exchange the rods.

 

Ones belong in a ones place, tens in a tens place (so your rods are being placed onto the proper columns).

 

If I were to take 19 from the 27, then they could see they only had 7 one rods and couldn't take 9, so let's move  a 10 orange rod over, but oops, only ones can be in the ones place so they will need to place ten white rods there instead and now they have 17 white rods (ones) and only one ten. Now they can write their problem 27-19 and easily take 9 ones away and the one ten away and see they would have  8 ones left.

 

 

Practice and more practice will help them understand it.

 

I didn't slack even a bit in this area because it was really important to me that my ds understand the decomposing/composing numbers rather than go through a formulaic process. So many people simply know to cross out/borrow but they don't have a good image in their mind of why they would need to do that to the numbers.

 

I hope I didn't confuse you more.  When my oldest was learning this we did lots of Miquon work with the rods coupled with drill sheets from a Kumon book. It's paid off because now he can learn various mental strategies to complete these kinds of problems fast because he's not hung up on not understanding place value. He can look at the same problem and easily make 19 a 20 and know he can take the two tens and be left with a 7 and add one more to get 8. I really feel Miquon helped him understand different strategies because of the work with visually seeing and touching it for years.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were images of c-rods in his mind still. LOL

[kristinannie]

The key to Miquon is to know how to use the C-rods.  The explanations in the Lab Annotations are pretty good, but it is best to play around with them.  I have found that Miquon is less scary if you are a mathy person. However, I think that kids can pick it up even if you aren't a mathy person.  I think kids can pick up on our anxiety pretty easily as well.  Honestly, I LOVE Miquon (I do it in combination with RS).  I rarely have to explain a page to my kids.  They basically do it on their own.  I just had to teach them how to use the rods.  If you feel comfortable teaching them how to use the rods and then just giving them the worksheets, that would probably work.  However, if a curriculum causes you stress and anxiety, I think you should just look elsewhere.  There are many good programs and not every program is a good fit for every family.  I wish you luck!

[Ellie]

The hardest thing for me to get about Miquon was that I wasn't going to teach. I was going to lead a discussion with the children and help them discover stuff.

 

:blink:

 

Actually, the *first* hardest thing was learning to love C-rods. I did that by buying Mathematics Made Meaningful and working through, I don't know, a bunch of the task cards, beginning with the first one, which was to put all the rods on a table in a pile and separate them by color, then mess them up and separate them by size. Hey--same piles!! Before long I was loving the rods, and *then* I could go on to Miquon.

 

Ok, I have to start with Mathematics Made Meaningful, before going to Miquon, even though I have been told that it isn't necessary. If *feels* necessary to me, and it doesn't hurt, so there.

 

So, then I have to learn to lead a discussion with the children, and there weren't necessarily going to be *correct answers* to the worksheets!! :svengo: Which the dc don't even see until we have had our time of learning...stuff. :svengo:

 

Yes, it was rough for me. But once I got past those things (learning to use the rods first with Mathematics Meaningful, then learning that I'm just going to help the dc discover stuff), it was much smoother sailing. :-)

 

 

[A home for their hearts]

I think my dd14, and my ds13 have a good understanding of place value.  What they would get stuck on was borrowing in the traditional algorithim so I tried to show them they way behind it with the c-rods, but it didn't seem to help much.  They did get not having enough and needing to regroup if you don't have enough.  What seemed to stump them all the time was knowing when they needed to regroup/borrow, what ever you want to call it.  ;)  So then I start wondering, well do they really understand place value.  We did line the rods up for example if we had 124-78 they would get a hundred flat, two tens, and a four and lay them next to each other, than under that they would put 7 ten rods and an 8.  It really seemed to confuse my dd14 the most.  She can do it on paper with numbers, but the rods went over her head. 

 

We haven't used the rod much.  I did use them to show some multiplication concepts to my older dc and it seemed to help.  As far as using Miquon with them, I haven't tried in a couple of years.  I was really wanting to use Miqoun with my ds9, and dd6.  They like playing with them, however when I get them out to do math with my ds9 he moans and groans.  lol 

 

With my dd6 I've used some of the early stuff with her from educationunboxed and crewton ramone, and I'm amazed at what she knows!  For example, we played what's in the box.  We had a yellow rod out, I put a light green rod under a cup without her looking and asked her what rod was under the cup, she instantly new it was the red rod.  She did very well with all the different combos I gave her, and that was after not having played with the rods in months!

[A home for their hearts]

The hardest thing for me to get about Miquon was that I wasn't going to teach. I was going to lead a discussion with the children and help them discover stuff.

 

:blink:

 

Actually, the *first* hardest thing was learning to love C-rods. I did that by buying Mathematics Made Meaningful and working through, I don't know, a bunch of the task cards, beginning with the first one, which was to put all the rods on a table in a pile and separate them by color, then mess them up and separate them by size. Hey--same piles!! Before long I was loving the rods, and *then* I could go on to Miquon.

 

Ok, I have to start with Mathematics Made Meaningful, before going to Miquon, even though I have been told that it isn't necessary. If *feels* necessary to me, and it doesn't hurt, so there.

 

So, then I have to learn to lead a discussion with the children, and there weren't necessarily going to be *correct answers* to the worksheets!! :svengo: Which the dc don't even see until we have had our time of learning...stuff. :svengo:

 

Yes, it was rough for me. But once I got past those things (learning to use the rods first with Mathematics Meaningful, then learning that I'm just going to help the dc discover stuff), it was much smoother sailing. :-)

 

I think a big part of my problem is feeling comfortable with not always getting the *correct answers*.  Doing math this why is completely different for me.  I was taught with the traditional method and that there is always a right and a wrong answer.  Also, when you learn the algorithm, you must use it, and use it only the way that it's been taught.  Math was always black and white for me.  I didn't want to teach my dc math this way, but I've always struggle to break free from it. It's what I know, it's what is comfortable.  Stepping out of that comfort zone is very scarey, even though I know my dc will benefit greatly from it. 

 

I do have Mathematics Made Meaningful.  We used them until we got to card that I had no idea how to teach.  Instead of exploring it, and not caring about being right or wrong, I froze and quickly put the cards away.  That was over a year ago.  I think your right, I need to go through them myself first and get comfortable with them, and then explore them with my dc.

[Ellie]

Also consider this: Not all children need manipulatives for math. I did not. My children did not. Yours might or might not.

[Walking-Iris]

And some kids do well with a variety of manipulatives. My 6 year old understands the rods, but he really prefers building his addition and subtraction problems with the linking cubes (I think they may be called unifix?).

 

My older ds practices multiplication with Montessori bead bars.

 

OP---am I right that you're saying you have a 13 and 14 year old in Miquon? That seems old to me for working through the Miquon books.

[A home for their hearts]

And some kids do well with a variety of manipulatives. My 6 year old understands the rods, but he really prefers building his addition and subtraction problems with the linking cubes (I think they may be called unifix?).

 

My older ds practices multiplication with Montessori bead bars.

 

OP---am I right that you're saying you have a 13 and 14 year old in Miquon? That seems old to me for working through the Miquon books.

 

No, my 13 and 14 year old are not currently using miquon.  I tried it with them a couple of years ago to help build a conceptual understanding of math.  They got through the red and blue book then we stopped because that was all we had.  Currently they are using MM blue series, (topic one) to help fill in some gaps before we move on to pre-algebra.  I really want all my children to understand math and not just be able to plug in numbers into algorithms.  Hence, my love and hate affair with Miquon.  ;)  I do use the c-rods a lot with my older two when I introduce new topics.  They just don't like to use them as much as I want them to.  They'd rather fill in their works sheets and get math over with.  But that's a different thread entirely!

 

My hope was to use Miqoun with my ds9 and dd6.  I have the orange book at pdf.  I've only looked through it, and I'm not loving what I see.  Maybe we'll use it as a supplement to Singapore. 

 

There's just too many choices!

[Walking-Iris]

my oldest ds would rather just get math done, which is why I use Saxon. I try to add in more project math discovery stuff sparingly. He would hate it if math was a process every day. It was fine when he was young, but he has no interest in math being a game or anything of the sort now. It is what it is. He rarely touches the rods these days.

 

If your older children know how to complete their math, I'd just let them get it done and save the extra stuff (using manipulatives or games etc) for those times when it's really necessary or maybe even novel and fun.

 

My 1st grader is working in Miquon and MM. I don't think you can judge the Orange book by looking through it. The activities in the Lab Annotations plus the use of the rods really flesh it out.

 

I always do Miquon plus something else.