L.A. to prepare for high school for a behind 7th grader

[TammyB]

Hello, all!

 

Late last summer I was given some good advice here for working with my son who was then dealing with crippling anxiety and depression.  I appreciated the help and am hoping to glean some additional wisdom.

 

This child has dealt with some pretty major stuff the last several years (debilitating illness in me, death of his grandmother, his own mental health issues), but I am happy to report that working with both a counselor and a behavioral specialist (and Zoloft) has worked absolute miracles.  He is finally in a healthy state of mind  and is able to think clearly and process well.  Thank the Lord!

 

Needless to say his education has taken a big hit.  He is bright, but he is behind in a number of skills.  My immediate job is to devise the most effective plan possible to make use of the year and a half he has left in middle school.  This is where I would appreciate some insight.

 

I just purchased Writing With Skill, and I believe spending some time in WWE 4 will be necessary to prepare him for it.  I'm wondering if I need to do the dictation in it, or if I should focus on the narration skills only.  (He has done some dictation but not a lot.)  It certainly would benefit him, but in considering the limited time we have and the amount of work in spelling and grammar that needs to be done, I am considering letting it go.  

 

His spelling is abysmal, so that is going to need a good amount of concentrated effort.  He would greatly benefit from doing All About Spelling, but I would definitely need to start at the beginning with it.  I would need to commit to twenty minutes a day to it.  

 

He is also a beginning level grammar student.  I used Emma Serl's language books with him in second through sixth grade  (primarily orally due to his dysgraphia), and those delay formal grammar study.  I am working on foundational grammar with him right now and plan to use Analytical Grammar with him beginning next year.  Grammar is taking us about thirty minutes a day.

 

His dysgraphia caused me to delay cursive writing instruction, and he is still only comfortable printing.  He is currently working through the fifth grade book of Handwriting Without Tears and is doing all other work in print.  Honestly, his cursive is more legible than his print, so I would like to see him persevere and make the transition.  At this point, though, I do wonder if his effort needs to be in other areas.  

 

Language arts is not the only area in which he is behind.  He is a seventh grader who is only half way through Singapore 5A (working an hour and fifteen minutes a day now on math).  He is an average student in math, but because he wants a career in technology, math has to be a priority.  I don't expect him to start algebra until ninth grade.  

 

On a positive note he just concluded the third module in Apologia's General Science and is doing very well with it.  I know it isn't considered rigorous, but he has made A's on all three of the tests he has taken so far, and he is doing the course completely independently.  That is some encouragement for this Mama's heart.  :)

 

So......moving forward from here.....

 

I want to prioritize and spend our time wisely.  Thirty minutes  of grammar, twenty of spelling, and thirty of writing (with or without dictation?) is probably the limit of what he can do daily. He also needs to read for thirty minutes to an hour as well, but I don't see formal literature studies fitting into the equation right now.  Am I on the right track?

 

Thoughts?

 

 It really stinks to be in this position, but I am trying to let go of the burden of worry and spend my energy towards progress instead.  :)

 

Thanks,

Tammy

 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you had an assessment through a neuropsych to see if there are any other issues, like processing speed, etc.?

[TammyB]

Have you had an assessment through a neuropsych to see if there are any other issues, like processing speed, etc.?

No, I never thought of doing that.  Hmm, how would I know if that were needed?

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, if he is having issues with spelling, etc. and he has dysgraphia, I would say there is a possibility of other hidden issues.  Those possible issues could be addressed if you knew about them, issues that can make functionality a LOT better.  An assessment through a neuropsych could also show you where his strengths are, maybe things you aren't even aware of.  For instance, my DD has phenomenal 3D spatial relations strengths, but we didn't know it,   We also were unaware that she was dyslexic because she was fairly high functioning at school.  She just was having to work tremendously hard to pass spelling tests, etc.  Getting an eval gave us wonderful answers for strengths and weaknesses and how to address the weaknesses as well as tap into and encourage the hidden strengths.

 

You might consider reading The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide before rushing out and looking for neuropshychs.  See if anything in there speaks to you....

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1401302254/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=34576579368&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2058725850719357659&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7fmtuden0x_b

[MamaSprout]

For curricula, Logic of English might be a good choice to consider. That and the Paragraph Book series from EPS.

[TarynB]

I hope you get more responses from other moms who've BTDT and have older kids, but some things struck me and also wanted to give you a bump.  First, hugs to you and your DS.  You've both been through a lot.  Second, I don't think he sounds as "behind" as you're afraid he is.

 

Writing With Skill 1 is challenging, and even though it is marketed to students as young as 5th grade, DO NOT let that make you feel despair because you don't think he is ready for it yet.  Several here on the forum are using it with 7th, 8th, even 9th graders.  I believe my DS is getting a lot more out of now as a 6th grader than if he had done it last year.  Older kids can move through it faster, click with the concepts more quickly, skip repetitive sections, etc.  If you want to run through parts of WWE4 first, that might be a good idea, but do feel free to modify, shorten or omit the dictation.  Try it and see what happens.  Watch the YouTube videos that SWB did with her son called "Dictation With Dan".  They show how she gave much more support/assistance with the dictations in WWE4.  They are very challenging!  IMO, if I had to choose, solid narration skills are more beneficial and really are a prerequisite for doing well in WWS1.

 

I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool for high school, but if I'm misunderstanding that and you are wanting to prepare for public high school, then the WWS series may not be the best prep for that.  I like WWS, but public school writing is just a different goal.  I totally agree that the Paragraph Book series, or the Writing Skills series by Diana Hanbury King, is a good way to quickly get up to speed for the type of writing expected in public high school.

 

On the other LA items:  Analytical Grammar is a great program.  I think that will serve him well.  FWIW, I tend to agree with delaying formal grammar too.  So much of elementary grammar doesn't stick anyway and it repeats the same thing every year.  I have no advice on spelling, sorry, but I do agree it is critical, so any progress he can make in a strong program is important and it is definitely worth spending time on. 

 

There are varying opinions on cursive vs. print, but it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on with my DS.  As long as he can sign his name well and can read cursive written by others, that's probably more than lots of other students can do. Cursive has been dropped in many public schools. I think learning to type well is probably more important, considering the electronic world we inhabit today.  The dysgraphia makes typing even more important, IMO. 

 

Let your DS read what he wants for now, as long as he reads some every day.  That could be for content subjects (history, science) or just for pleasure.  Don't force a formal lit program now.  In a year or two you can start formal lit analysis and not be behind at all.  Some kids (esp. boys) aren't really ready for the type of thinking required for lit analysis until around 9th grade anyway.  This article by SWB will likely be very helpful for you and give you peace of mind.  What is Literary Analysis (and When to Teach It)  It provides a list of simple questions to gently ease into lit analysis with any book, when you are ready.  Lit doesn't have to be complex or time consuming.

 

Singapore is a challenging math program.  Some would say it is advanced by almost a year, so if he's doing level 5, again, he's not as behind as you think.  Some kids (not saying it is expected, but some do) even go from Singapore 5 straight to prealgebra, with level 6 being a year just for review of elementary math and gaining maturity.  In math it is critical to have a strong foundation, so do not rush.  9th grade is normal for algebra, 8th grade algebra is considered advanced in many schools.  So do not fret, he has plenty of time. 

 

For science, awesome that he's doing well in the program he's using now!  I bet that is building his confidence in many ways.  But don't stress about science, history, other content subjects for now.  Let them be interest-led, or just read good library books, watch documentaries.  Formal programs can wait until high school while you're building the base of strong skills for reading, writing and math.  He'll still learn a ton doing content subjects informally and be just fine. 

 

Sorry this got so long.  Hugs to you, mama!  You are doing great. 

[MamaSprout]

I agree with Taryn B about WWS. I tried to use it with a behind 14 year old 8th grader earlier this year and there was no way he was ready. I used some Logic of English, the Paragraph Book 1, and made him learn to write cursive with Logic of English Cursive. We did most of the CLE research packet (806?) before I stuck him in a group of students going though Lively Art of Writing together. He's coming along. The cursive was more important than I originally thought. I think he should have done more of the Paragraph Book series. He did not like it at all, but agrees it gave him a solid start.

 

Good luck.

[dbmamaz]

i'm seconding Logic of English essentials for spelling - aimed at older kids, and just one book for the whole program.  depending on the kid, i might do formal grammar if he prefers things predictable, but if he hates tedious work, i might just start getting him writing, and then choose something to work on - like the first week, every time he does writing, you go back together and correct spelling.  the next week you start working on punctuation.  the next week you start on grammar.  

 

I would also let him type . . . you can get that put in an IEP, at least here you can, that all writing of any length is done on the computer.  

[TammyB]

For curricula, Logic of English might be a good choice to consider. That and the Paragraph Book series from EPS.

If I do WWS with him, do I need to work separately on paragraph building?  I was hoping that WWS would cover that.

 

I need to look more into Logic of English.  I had a few free moments earlier today, so I took a quick peek at it but not enough to understand it.  It looks like it is one book that covers everything in foundations but separate books in essentials.  Is that correct?

[TammyB]

I hope you get more responses from other moms who've BTDT and have older kids, but some things struck me and also wanted to give you a bump.  First, hugs to you and your DS.  You've both been through a lot.  Second, I don't think he sounds as "behind" as you're afraid he is.

 

Writing With Skill 1 is challenging, and even though it is marketed to students as young as 5th grade, DO NOT let that make you feel despair because you don't think he is ready for it yet.  Several here on the forum are using it with 7th, 8th, even 9th graders.  I believe my DS is getting a lot more out of now as a 6th grader than if he had done it last year.  Older kids can move through it faster, click with the concepts more quickly, skip repetitive sections, etc.  If you want to run through parts of WWE4 first, that might be a good idea, but do feel free to modify, shorten or omit the dictation.  Try it and see what happens.  Watch the YouTube videos that SWB did with her son called "Dictation With Dan".  They show how she gave much more support/assistance with the dictations in WWE4.  They are very challenging!  IMO, if I had to choose, solid narration skills are more beneficial and really are a prerequisite for doing well in WWS1.

 

I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool for high school, but if I'm misunderstanding that and you are wanting to prepare for public high school, then the WWS series may not be the best prep for that.  I like WWS, but public school writing is just a different goal.  I totally agree that the Paragraph Book series, or the Writing Skills series by Diana Hanbury King, is a good way to quickly get up to speed for the type of writing expected in public high school.

 

On the other LA items:  Analytical Grammar is a great program.  I think that will serve him well.  FWIW, I tend to agree with delaying formal grammar too.  So much of elementary grammar doesn't stick anyway and it repeats the same thing every year.  I have no advice on spelling, sorry, but I do agree it is critical, so any progress he can make in a strong program is important and it is definitely worth spending time on. 

 

There are varying opinions on cursive vs. print, but it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on with my DS.  As long as he can sign his name well and can read cursive written by others, that's probably more than lots of other students can do. Cursive has been dropped in many public schools. I think learning to type well is probably more important, considering the electronic world we inhabit today.  The dysgraphia makes typing even more important, IMO. 

 

Let your DS read what he wants for now, as long as he reads some every day.  That could be for content subjects (history, science) or just for pleasure.  Don't force a formal lit program now.  In a year or two you can start formal lit analysis and not be behind at all.  Some kids (esp. boys) aren't really ready for the type of thinking required for lit analysis until around 9th grade anyway.  This article by SWB will likely be very helpful for you and give you peace of mind.  What is Literary Analysis (and When to Teach It)  It provides a list of simple questions to gently ease into lit analysis with any book, when you are ready.  Lit doesn't have to be complex or time consuming.

 

Singapore is a challenging math program.  Some would say it is advanced by almost a year, so if he's doing level 5, again, he's not as behind as you think.  Some kids (not saying it is expected, but some do) even go from Singapore 5 straight to prealgebra, with level 6 being a year just for review of elementary math and gaining maturity.  In math it is critical to have a strong foundation, so do not rush.  9th grade is normal for algebra, 8th grade algebra is considered advanced in many schools.  So do not fret, he has plenty of time. 

 

For science, awesome that he's doing well in the program he's using now!  I bet that is building his confidence in many ways.  But don't stress about science, history, other content subjects for now.  Let them be interest-led, or just read good library books, watch documentaries.  Formal programs can wait until high school while you're building the base of strong skills for reading, writing and math.  He'll still learn a ton doing content subjects informally and be just fine. 

 

Sorry this got so long.  Hugs to you, mama!  You are doing great. 

I needed this encouragement today.  Thanks!  :)   Fear can be paralyzing, and that certainly doesn't help anything.  So much time has been lost that it is hard sometimes for me to see how the future can be different.  

 

I'll definitely read the SWB article about literary analysis.  I am sure it will be insightful.  

 

Thank you again.  Your encouragement that things are not as bad as a imagine was a breath of fresh air.  :)

[TammyB]

I hope you get more responses from other moms who've BTDT and have older kids, but some things struck me and also wanted to give you a bump.  First, hugs to you and your DS.  You've both been through a lot.  Second, I don't think he sounds as "behind" as you're afraid he is.

 

Writing With Skill 1 is challenging, and even though it is marketed to students as young as 5th grade, DO NOT let that make you feel despair because you don't think he is ready for it yet.  Several here on the forum are using it with 7th, 8th, even 9th graders.  I believe my DS is getting a lot more out of now as a 6th grader than if he had done it last year.  Older kids can move through it faster, click with the concepts more quickly, skip repetitive sections, etc.  If you want to run through parts of WWE4 first, that might be a good idea, but do feel free to modify, shorten or omit the dictation.  Try it and see what happens.  Watch the YouTube videos that SWB did with her son called "Dictation With Dan".  They show how she gave much more support/assistance with the dictations in WWE4.  They are very challenging!  IMO, if I had to choose, solid narration skills are more beneficial and really are a prerequisite for doing well in WWS1.

 

I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool for high school, but if I'm misunderstanding that and you are wanting to prepare for public high school, then the WWS series may not be the best prep for that.  I like WWS, but public school writing is just a different goal.  I totally agree that the Paragraph Book series, or the Writing Skills series by Diana Hanbury King, is a good way to quickly get up to speed for the type of writing expected in public high school.

 

On the other LA items:  Analytical Grammar is a great program.  I think that will serve him well.  FWIW, I tend to agree with delaying formal grammar too.  So much of elementary grammar doesn't stick anyway and it repeats the same thing every year.  I have no advice on spelling, sorry, but I do agree it is critical, so any progress he can make in a strong program is important and it is definitely worth spending time on. 

 

There are varying opinions on cursive vs. print, but it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on with my DS.  As long as he can sign his name well and can read cursive written by others, that's probably more than lots of other students can do. Cursive has been dropped in many public schools. I think learning to type well is probably more important, considering the electronic world we inhabit today.  The dysgraphia makes typing even more important, IMO. 

 

Let your DS read what he wants for now, as long as he reads some every day.  That could be for content subjects (history, science) or just for pleasure.  Don't force a formal lit program now.  In a year or two you can start formal lit analysis and not be behind at all.  Some kids (esp. boys) aren't really ready for the type of thinking required for lit analysis until around 9th grade anyway.  This article by SWB will likely be very helpful for you and give you peace of mind.  What is Literary Analysis (and When to Teach It)  It provides a list of simple questions to gently ease into lit analysis with any book, when you are ready.  Lit doesn't have to be complex or time consuming.

 

Singapore is a challenging math program.  Some would say it is advanced by almost a year, so if he's doing level 5, again, he's not as behind as you think.  Some kids (not saying it is expected, but some do) even go from Singapore 5 straight to prealgebra, with level 6 being a year just for review of elementary math and gaining maturity.  In math it is critical to have a strong foundation, so do not rush.  9th grade is normal for algebra, 8th grade algebra is considered advanced in many schools.  So do not fret, he has plenty of time. 

 

For science, awesome that he's doing well in the program he's using now!  I bet that is building his confidence in many ways.  But don't stress about science, history, other content subjects for now.  Let them be interest-led, or just read good library books, watch documentaries.  Formal programs can wait until high school while you're building the base of strong skills for reading, writing and math.  He'll still learn a ton doing content subjects informally and be just fine. 

 

Sorry this got so long.  Hugs to you, mama!  You are doing great. 

I needed this encouragement today.  Thanks!  :)   Fear can be paralyzing, and that certainly doesn't help anything.  So much time has been lost that it is hard sometimes for me to see how the future can be different.  

 

I'll definitely read the SWB article about literary analysis.  I am sure it will be insightful.  

 

Thank you again.  Your encouragement that things are not as bad as a imagine was a breath of fresh air.  :)

[TammyB]

I hope you get more responses from other moms who've BTDT and have older kids, but some things struck me and also wanted to give you a bump.  First, hugs to you and your DS.  You've both been through a lot.  Second, I don't think he sounds as "behind" as you're afraid he is.

 

Writing With Skill 1 is challenging, and even though it is marketed to students as young as 5th grade, DO NOT let that make you feel despair because you don't think he is ready for it yet.  Several here on the forum are using it with 7th, 8th, even 9th graders.  I believe my DS is getting a lot more out of now as a 6th grader than if he had done it last year.  Older kids can move through it faster, click with the concepts more quickly, skip repetitive sections, etc.  If you want to run through parts of WWE4 first, that might be a good idea, but do feel free to modify, shorten or omit the dictation.  Try it and see what happens.  Watch the YouTube videos that SWB did with her son called "Dictation With Dan".  They show how she gave much more support/assistance with the dictations in WWE4.  They are very challenging!  IMO, if I had to choose, solid narration skills are more beneficial and really are a prerequisite for doing well in WWS1.

 

I'm assuming you're planning to homeschool for high school, but if I'm misunderstanding that and you are wanting to prepare for public high school, then the WWS series may not be the best prep for that.  I like WWS, but public school writing is just a different goal.  I totally agree that the Paragraph Book series, or the Writing Skills series by Diana Hanbury King, is a good way to quickly get up to speed for the type of writing expected in public high school.

 

On the other LA items:  Analytical Grammar is a great program.  I think that will serve him well.  FWIW, I tend to agree with delaying formal grammar too.  So much of elementary grammar doesn't stick anyway and it repeats the same thing every year.  I have no advice on spelling, sorry, but I do agree it is critical, so any progress he can make in a strong program is important and it is definitely worth spending time on. 

 

There are varying opinions on cursive vs. print, but it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on with my DS.  As long as he can sign his name well and can read cursive written by others, that's probably more than lots of other students can do. Cursive has been dropped in many public schools. I think learning to type well is probably more important, considering the electronic world we inhabit today.  The dysgraphia makes typing even more important, IMO. 

 

Let your DS read what he wants for now, as long as he reads some every day.  That could be for content subjects (history, science) or just for pleasure.  Don't force a formal lit program now.  In a year or two you can start formal lit analysis and not be behind at all.  Some kids (esp. boys) aren't really ready for the type of thinking required for lit analysis until around 9th grade anyway.  This article by SWB will likely be very helpful for you and give you peace of mind.  What is Literary Analysis (and When to Teach It)  It provides a list of simple questions to gently ease into lit analysis with any book, when you are ready.  Lit doesn't have to be complex or time consuming.

 

Singapore is a challenging math program.  Some would say it is advanced by almost a year, so if he's doing level 5, again, he's not as behind as you think.  Some kids (not saying it is expected, but some do) even go from Singapore 5 straight to prealgebra, with level 6 being a year just for review of elementary math and gaining maturity.  In math it is critical to have a strong foundation, so do not rush.  9th grade is normal for algebra, 8th grade algebra is considered advanced in many schools.  So do not fret, he has plenty of time. 

 

For science, awesome that he's doing well in the program he's using now!  I bet that is building his confidence in many ways.  But don't stress about science, history, other content subjects for now.  Let them be interest-led, or just read good library books, watch documentaries.  Formal programs can wait until high school while you're building the base of strong skills for reading, writing and math.  He'll still learn a ton doing content subjects informally and be just fine. 

 

Sorry this got so long.  Hugs to you, mama!  You are doing great. 

I needed this encouragement today.  Thanks!  :)   Fear can be paralyzing, and that certainly doesn't help anything.  So much time has been lost that it is hard sometimes for me to see how the future can be different.  

 

I'll definitely read the SWB article about literary analysis.  I am sure it will be insightful.  

 

Thank you again.  Your encouragement that things are not as bad as a imagine was a breath of fresh air.  :)

[MamaSprout]

You would want Logic of English Essentials + a version of the workbook (print/ cursive/ printed/ .pdf options available.) It is not terribly writing intensive.

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/sku/LOECUR/72dda5db8c1db0d563658e78

http://www.logicofenglish.com/ (Her videos are worth checking out).

 

EPS Paragraph books also cover a lot of ground with less writing than other programs:

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Paragraph+Book+1%3A+Writing+the+How+To+Paragrap/020808/72dda5db8c1db0d563658e78?subject=7&category=1650

 

Hope this helps! Hang in there!

 

[TammyB]

You would want Logic of English Essentials + a version of the workbook (print/ cursive/ printed/ .pdf options available.) It is not terribly writing intensive.

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/sku/LOECUR/72dda5db8c1db0d563658e78

http://www.logicofenglish.com/ (Her videos are worth checking out).

 

EPS Paragraph books also cover a lot of ground with less writing than other programs:

http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Paragraph+Book+1%3A+Writing+the+How+To+Paragrap/020808/72dda5db8c1db0d563658e78?subject=7&category=1650

 

Hope this helps! Hang in there!

Thanks for the links!  I watched the you tube tutorial about Logic of English, and from what I understand the book includes grammar as well as spelling.  Is the grammar comprehensive?  In other words is it a complete grammar and spelling program?

 

I am also wondering how Logic of English compares to All About Spelling.  Is one more preferable for an older child?  

 

 Are you recommending to work through the paragraph prior to WWW?

 

Thanks!

[1Togo]

Although you are already working with WWS, you might want to take a look at The Write Foundation.  I would suggest Level 2 for the rest of 7th and then 8th, and then Level 3 for 9th grade.  Level 2 and 3 would definitely prepare your son for the rest of high school.  TWF gathers up the best of many of the suggestions mentioned on this thread.  It includes poetry and stylistic techniques.  It uses concrete tools like graphic organizers, highlighting, and editing check lists, which work well with students who have learning challenges.   The writing assignments include a practice lesson to show the student exactly what to do for their original writing.  For example, snow boarding and snow skiing are compared in a paragraph lesson, and the teacher helps the student fill in the brainstorm and outline graphic organizer (information in the TM).  Then, the student writes the paragraph.  The next comparison paragraph is original from topic suggestions (many options for this).  The student can either write the paragraph on his own or get input from the teacher.  Level 2 and Level 3 take the student through paragraph writing, basic 5-paragraph essay, timed essays and research essays.

 

As others have mentioned, I agree that formal lit analysis can wait.

 

Also, if you want to add grammar, take a look at Analytical Grammar.  I would work through this slowly.  It is scheduled for two years, but for a 7th grader, it might take 3 years, especially since the lessons may need to be split into two sessions; i.e. 30 minutes each.  AG covers all grammar concepts with diagramming. 

[TammyB]

Although you are already working with WWS, you might want to take a look at The Write Foundation.  I would suggest Level 2 for the rest of 7th and then 8th, and then Level 3 for 9th grade.  Level 2 and 3 would definitely prepare your son for the rest of high school.  TWF gathers up the best of many of the suggestions mentioned on this thread.  It includes poetry and stylistic techniques.  It uses concrete tools like graphic organizers, highlighting, and editing check lists, which work well with students who have learning challenges.   The writing assignments include a practice lesson to show the student exactly what to do for their original writing.  For example, snow boarding and snow skiing are compared in a paragraph lesson, and the teacher helps the student fill in the brainstorm and outline graphic organizer (information in the TM).  Then, the student writes the paragraph.  The next comparison paragraph is original from topic suggestions (many options for this).  The student can either write the paragraph on his own or get input from the teacher.  Level 2 and Level 3 take the student through paragraph writing, basic 5-paragraph essay, timed essays and research essays.

 

As others have mentioned, I agree that formal lit analysis can wait.

 

Also, if you want to add grammar, take a look at Analytical Grammar.  I would work through this slowly.  It is scheduled for two years, but for a 7th grader, it might take 3 years, especially since the lessons may need to be split into two sessions; i.e. 30 minutes each.  AG covers all grammar concepts with diagram

I have actually never even heard of the Write foundation.  :)  I will check it out.  Thanks!