DS and the sentence that never ends because it goes on and on my friend and ..

[SorrelZG]

DS has done WWE 1 and is now in WWE 2. He answers questions during school in complete sentences. He is fairly decent at formulating decent sentences for his narrations (because WWE tells him how many sentences to sum up in so he is keeping count and additionally he knows I'll make him write them so he is motivated to be succinct). When it comes to his own writing however, he is king of the sentence that never ends. He showed me a story recently that he was three pages into and about as many sentences. This is also how he normally talks in spite of regular instruction outside of school to complete his sentences and communicate one thought at a time, etc. He talks a lot so I'm obviously not correcting all of his speaking but he is hearing about it daily, to no effect. He does frequent copy work, reads a lot of good literature, and correctly writes his own narrations from dictation (usually - and my dictating makes clear where commas should be and sentences end). He knows all about how to apply basic punctuation. Little of it is transferring to his own writing.

 

Can anyone recommend a resource that might help? Should I use something focused on writing sentences? Is transference just something that takes time?

 

Also, what should I do with the stories he writes in his own time? Just smile and praise? Edit and correct?

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

For stories on his own, just keep those floodgates open and let it roll.

 

For corrections on other assignment-like pieces, one thing to try is have him read it aloud while you note where he takes a natural breath, then have him put the commas in there.  You can even read it back both ways so his ear can hear it.

 

Is it the perfect rule-based system?  No, but it can help him see the whole point of what commas do as pauses.  It takes practice, but rhythm in writing is like learning an instrument, so step by step.  We've diagrammed sentences for years, and DD knows the rules cold, but the read-back is still a great tool, and I wouldn't expect most kids to keep those playing in the front of their noggins while creatively writing.

[stripe]

I don't know. Read Faulker? Or Sarah Palin?

 

Seriously, I ripped out a recent article in the New Yorker because the entire page -- yes! the entire page -- was a single sentence. I put it in my son's writing notebook for inspiration.

 

This is the seven year old? I would suggest paying attention to when he needs to stop and breathe when reading his sentence.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I don't know. Read Faulker? Or Sarah Palin?

 

 

LOL.

 

This one is from Eats, Shoots & Leaves:

 

“Thurber was asked by a correspondent: "Why did you have a comma in the sentence, 'After dinner, the men went into the living-room'?" And his answer was probably one of the loveliest things ever said about punctuation. "This particular comma," Thurber explained, "was Ross's way of giving the men time to push back their chairs and stand up.†

[SorrelZG]

Okay. I'll start working with him on that .. although stopping to breathe at appropriate times during speech may be something he needs work on, also. :-/ He has a bit of a stutter where he repeats the ends of words here and there while he's thinking about the next bit of what he's saying. Perhaps more reading fluency exercises would help? He does fine reciting poetry and other memory work.

[Jess4879]

Bravewriter has an editing exercise where you make a copy of their work (some kids are very upset when you cut up their originals) and then they take and cut out all the sentences and rearrange, discard, etc.  I think you could make it work for him.  Have him see if he can pick out each full sentence and cut it out.  You could then have him rewrite the piece (or part of it) adding capitals and punctuation.  I'm not sure if this will help, but it might be worth a try. 

[BlsdMama]

So I'm curious, how is his reading aloud? I have a son that has struggled with this his entire life (lest you think I'm overstating, he's now 15.) We've found he has prosody issues... he doesn't "hear" the natural rhythm of language. So where you and I "hear" the natural pause as if we were reading aloud, he does not. It's very interesting to me. So, it leads me to ask, do you hear pauses, stops, etc. if he reads aloud to you, even his own writing? We taught reading aloud, commas are pauses, periods are so signs, and so he could read aloud other works, but his own wild have none of that. Just something to have on your radar. ;)

[SorrelZG]

Gah, I just tested him on reading but forgot about testing him with reading his own writing.

 

He is doing fine with reading aloud froma book. I tried him with something he's read before and something he hasn't and he acknowledged all punctuation and moved his voice up and down appropriately. I was impressed because he's actually improved a lot since I used to have him read aloud to me regularly. I just haven't been paying attention for a while. He has issues with skipping or inserting or changing articles and some nouns for pronouns and vice versa - stuff that usually doesn't change the meaning in any way but just isn't what is actually written. The rhythm though is great. Of course, I still need to see how he reads his own writing.

 

Eta: in trying to find a sample of his own writing I found his journal (having one was his own idea) and he has reasonable sentences in there (granted, without needed commas). I'll keep listening to him and helping him listen and helping him think about his own writing, as per all the suggestions - maybe he just needs more time to gain consistency.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Have you read it back to him? Because he talks and writes that way, his ear isn't trained to hear the problem. But (I assume, LOL) you do not read and talk that way, and he may be able to hear the problem if you read it aloud to him, full speed ahead.

 

I have a kid I had to drill into with the idea of commas as yields and periods as stops. This was also the child who was the earliest to need and use the more complex punctuation tools of colons and semicolons. ;) I talked a lot about punctuation as street signs, including speed limit signs. Just as you shouldn't go willy-nilly wherever you want, whenever you want, as fast and as recklessly as you want when driving, heedless of the rules of the road, changing lanes without heeding street signs, etc., you shouldn't write without respecting the metaphorical street signs of punctuation.

 

And forgive that last sentence, LOL, as it is the opposite of my point. :lol: I have to run...

[BlsdMama]

Gah, I just tested him on reading but forgot about testing him with reading his own writing.

 

He is doing fine with reading aloud froma book. I tried him with something he's read before and something he hasn't and he acknowledged all punctuation and moved his voice up and down appropriately. I was impressed because he's actually improved a lot since I used to have him read aloud to me regularly. I just haven't been paying attention for a while. He has issues with skipping or inserting or changing articles and some nouns for pronouns and vice versa - stuff that usually doesn't change the meaning in any way but just isn't what is actually written. The rhythm though is great. Of course, I still need to see how he reads his own writing.

 

Eta: in trying to find a sample of his own writing I found his journal (having one was his own idea) and he has reasonable sentences in there (granted, without needed commas). I'll keep listening to him and helping him listen and helping him think about his own writing, as per all the suggestions - maybe he just needs more time to gain consistency.

 

If his rhythm and reading aloud is good, then I'd say, "He's seven."  :)  That means, essentially, with consistency and practice, no worries mama! :)

[BlsdMama]

Gah, I just tested him on reading but forgot about testing him with reading his own writing.

 

He is doing fine with reading aloud froma book. I tried him with something he's read before and something he hasn't and he acknowledged all punctuation and moved his voice up and down /e

ETA: Apparently I'd say it twice. :P  Ignore - double post.