ColleenInWis Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 A shoot-off from the thread on Coalition for Responsible Home Education... Senator Osmond in Utah plans to reform education in that state next term. Read his plans here. This results in a lessening of requirements for private and home schools. Read the CHRE's response here. And what does HSLDA have to say about it? http://www.hslda.org/cms/?q=bill/senate-bill-39-homeschool-amendments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My3girls Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The CHRE's response is infuriating. A parent has the right to make educational choices for their child period. Yes, there will be some parents who are negligent, but typically it wouldn't be just in education. I think those that are so willing to make choices for other people's children and make blanket plans, laws, and regulations are the same people that have caused American schools to become colossal failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The proposed changes to public school law are just weird: Finally, under this bill, parents and students [in the public schools] will be held accountable for academic performance and attendance: Students who fail to meet academic proficiency will be required to attend summer school or use other remediation. All or part of the cost of such remediation may now be charged to the parent (which costs and decisions will be calculated and managed by local district policy). They want to charge parents $$ if the kids need remediation? And if the parents don't or can't pay, then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkacz Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I find the proposal that parents need to choose at age 6 the child's educational pathway concerning. I had no idea that I would be homeschooling my first grader until after we experienced the public school option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The proposed changes to public school law are just weird: They want to charge parents $$ if the kids need remediation? And if the parents don't or can't pay, then what? Agreed. The whole law seemed rather ill conceived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 This weekend I told my husband about the CHRE, how they're trying to address real terrible abuse that does happen, but they want to put a bunch of laws and regulations on all homeschoolers. They don't care about homeschooling they care about saving some of those tragic cases. I told him I don't know what the answer is because the abuse is terrible, but regulating all homeschoolers for what some crimininals are doing will affect the law abiding homeschoolers. He said there is a solution. They can turn the public school back into a place of education instead of a daycare, then a lot of homeschoolers wouldn't need to homeschool. I said, hey, that is a good solution, and they already have all the authority to regulate and fix that. Funny, this spin-off should show up today exploring just that idea. This legislation just isn't going to work because it basically boils down to allowing the public schools to kick out kids who are not there to learn. It did say that a parent has to choose an educational path for their kid at age 6. That's probably the legal age when mandatory school attendance begins. It did not say you could not change your mind at any time. The CHRE link (above) said that this law would require a homeschooled child who was reentering the public school to take a placement test. It would charge the parents money for however far behind their kid was below grade level. And would fine all parents for summer school or remedial tutoring (I'll assume learning disabilities are exempted for). The fines you're asking if the parents cannot or will not pay? This is the part where the public school kicks out kids who are not there to learn and whose parents are not sending them to be educated. This law (which, obviously won't pass) says that free education is a privilege, either go to school and get your education or get out and quit wasting everybody's time and money. This is not a free daycare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My3girls Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 La taxican wish I could like your post twice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 This weekend I told my husband about the CHRE, how they're trying to address real terrible abuse that does happen, but they want to put a bunch of laws and regulations on all homeschoolers. They don't care about homeschooling they care about saving some of those tragic cases. I told him I don't know what the answer is because the abuse is terrible, but regulating all homeschoolers for what some crimininals are doing will affect the law abiding homeschoolers. He said there is a solution. They can turn the public school back into a place of education instead of a daycare, then a lot of homeschoolers wouldn't need to homeschool. I said, hey, that is a good solution, and they already have all the authority to regulate and fix that. Funny, this spin-off should show up today exploring just that idea. This legislation just isn't going to work because it basically boils down to allowing the public schools to kick out kids who are not there to learn. It did say that a parent has to choose an educational path for their kid at age 6. That's probably the legal age when mandatory school attendance begins. It did not say you could not change your mind at any time. The CHRE link (above) said that this law would require a homeschooled child who was reentering the public school to take a placement test. It would charge the parents money for however far behind their kid was below grade level. And would fine all parents for summer school or remedial tutoring (I'll assume learning disabilities are exempted for). The fines you're asking if the parents cannot or will not pay? This is the part where the public school kicks out kids who are not there to learn and whose parents are not sending them to be educated. This law (which, obviously won't pass) says that free education is a privilege, either go to school and get your education or get out and quit wasting everybody's time and money. This is not a free daycare. First, I don't see how improving the educational quality of schools could possibly fix the issue of abuse among homeschoolers. Those who use homeschooling as a cover for abuse aren't going to send their kids to school if the schools improve. Second, I'm not totally sure where you stand in regards to the legislation, but I don't see why it matters how parents view the schools - whether they see it as day care or education, the job of the schools is still to educate students. End of story. They should not be allowed to relinquish that responsibility just because it's hard or because sometimes parents themselves are uneducated and don't value education. And the idea that a family that doesn't have the cash to pay for their child's remediation should be expelled as a result is just abhorrent to me. How horrible. Society and children who are the most vulnerable would suffer the most under such an educational regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It won't pass here in Utah. It's not even on our radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Of course I don't support this legislation. It's riduculous and even the guy who wrote it knows it would never pass. He probably wrote it because it's near election time and this kind of attempt would get him more votes. But do you think it's fair for all the students who are there to learn? Yes it matters how the parents view the school. It matters to all the other kids in their kids class. This sentiment isn't rare. I'm sure you know people talk about how used to if you got bad grades you'd get yelled at, now if you get bad grades your parents yell at the teacher. This ridiculous piece of legislation tried to legislate into law that the parents have to show teachers respect if they're going choose to use the public schools. My husbands point by saying, "they need to make public schools a place of education then many homeschoolers wouldn't have to homeschool" is because I told him about the CHRE trying to press for more regulation on all homeschoolers because of a few crimininals. He meant maybe there would be a lot less homeschoolers if the schools were a little more focused on education. I agreed, because they already have all the legislative and regulation power they want inside the school system. I found this attempt at legislation quite funny after that conversation, because this is what it would look like if they tried to make the schools about education. Maybe you don't think it's funny because you think legislation like this might actually ever be passed? I know that schools really find ways to press poor performing students out. I know it happens in the real world. I don't think we're anywhere near the point where this type of legislation could be passed where schools could kick kids out and be totally upfront about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'm still not totally sure I understand what you're saying, La Texican. You dislike the legislation and think it would never pass (I agree, it's absurd) but also think it's amusing and seem to support the impulse behind it? Even if it would never pass (again, agreed), I still find it sad that there are people in society who think this way about children and schools and who are this ignorant of poverty that they think this would somehow be fair to students. I'm not sure why that would ever be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'll try one more time. It's funny to me that when I told my husband about the CHRE thread, that this is a spin-off off of, that I summarized above, he told me that if they fixed the schools so that they were about education then there would be a lot less homeschoolers, and, ironically, this spin-off thread is about legislation that would make the schools completly about education, but would never work in real life. It's okay if you think it's not funny. If you think I think that educational or social problems are funny in and of themselves then hopefully I have cleared that up by clearly stating that the irony that amused me was not that people have problems, it was the immediate example of a catch 22 that made me chuckle. Maybe you didn't see that what I described was a catch 22 and you imagined me laughing gleefuly at the plight of the underpriveledged. (I wasn't. I was simply pointing out irony.) Maybe you don't find catch 22s amusing. Maybe you don't think it's okay I found something funny in a sad situation. It wasn't the sad part I was laughing at. I'm done laughing though, it was only funny the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 If you're asking what I believe I believe in universal healthcare, social welfare, and libertarian values mixed togeather. I support the safety net of public schools and public services, but I do not want everybody dragged down to the lowest common denominator. That's what I feel that group legislating regulations for private homeschools would do. They have to do it for the public schools. It serves as a public safety net. This attempt at legislation clearly illustrates that point. Homeschoolers have opted out of that system. That's where my libertarian bent kicks in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Relevant anecdote: my sister is a special ed teacher, she taught a child--or attempted to teach a child--who refused to do anything a teacher told him to. His dad had taught him that teachers couldn't make him do anything, and had coached him to say when directed to do something "you're not the boss of me". It's sad, but I truly cannot see what that child was doing in school other than wasting taxpayer money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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