S/o books/articles on Executive Function Disorder?

[Halcyon]

I am not sure if this is part of my sons problem, but I do think he and I would benefit from some "tips and tricks" to help manage his issues in this area.

 

Thanks.

 

Is Smart But Scattered worth downloading?

[Heather in Neverland]

I read Smart but Scattered Teens and I really liked it.

[Alessandra]

I have read both the Smart but Scattered books and found them helpful. I also like Late, Lost and Unprepared: A Parent's Guide to Helping Children with Executive Functioning.

 

As a side note, I planned to get the last one from our local library system, which had multiple, multiple copies, not one of which was available! So I bought the print copy, hoping ds would be able to benefit from it. He saw the cover and announced that he had no problems with executive functioning. :-0

[PeterPan]

Ooo, I didn't know there was a SbS teens!  Good idea!  I'm too scattered to remember what we've liked.   :smilielol5:   If you follow the suggestions on amazon you'll get a lot of hits.  Try the library.  Nan in Mass has listed some in the past, and we have had lists on the LC board.  I think the one That Crumpled Paper Was my Homework was good.  I used to keep index cards on my reading and don't anymore.  So many books to me aren't worth buying, because you only read them once and move on, kwim?  Recently some people suggested books on adhd organizing solutions, and seriously those have been AWESOME.  They go into so many practical areas. If there are EF issues, not like it's affecting JUST his schoolwork.  

 

Have you looked at metronome stuff?  Heathermomster has had some posts on LC explaining that.  You can actually target the EF portion of the brain and get it to move.  You'll sometimes see RADICAL changes in a student.  Seriously, it's free and can make a HUGE difference.  Linguisystems sells an EF training book that is worthwhile, partly for what it does and partly for how it helps you see all the areas the EF portion of the brain is affecting and how you can get more of this out in the open and discussed.  Our psych used the word inefficient for dd, and that was such a huge mind shift for me.  It's so easy to get negative or frustrated, then I remember she's just being inefficient and that we need to anticipate and try to explore ways to approach xyz efficiently from the beginning.

[PeterPan]

Here's the link for that book.  It's $2.99 on amazon for kindle right now.  Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD, 2nd Edition-Revised and Updated: Tips and Tools to Help You Take Charge...  It's not student-specific, but it's just good overall.  You probably have more going on with how to keep rooms clean, how to declutter, etc. etc.

 

Btw, have you seen the Eides' blog postings about the profoundly gifted and their different EF curve?  

[PeterPan]

I have read both the Smart but Scattered books and found them helpful. I also like Late, Lost and Unprepared: A Parent's Guide to Helping Children with Executive Functioning.

 

As a side note, I planned to get the last one from our local library system, which had multiple, multiple copies, not one of which was available! So I bought the print copy, hoping ds would be able to benefit from it. He saw the cover and announced that he had no problems with executive functioning. :-0

My dd is never late, lost, or unprepared either.  ;)  Seriously, she's just NOT.  But she gets there by hyper-compensating for everything.  She doesn't do it in a normal way, getting ready at a normal time.  She'll pack for camp 3 months early with a typed out list.  She keeps an overnight bag always packed, so she's always ready to go to a friend's house without forgetting things.  People have such misconceptions and pre-conceptions about labels, and they're just not right.  Your ds' abilities are a testament to the structure you've given him and his brightness and ability to compensate.  He's working and functional in this environment, but if you accidentally LOSE what was working, because you don't get the right words for it, then things can fall apart.  So we put words on things and we make our skills explicit (out in the open, with intention), so we can apply them to new, more challenging and complex situations.

 

My friend who works at a university says the problem they have is not that they DON'T want to offer help and services.  It's that the kids don't want to take advantage of them.  They want to try things on their own, and when they struggle that is a $20-40K decision!!  Not cool.  So my goal is to get the right words on things, so she can be confident enough to take advantage of services and do what she needs to succeed.  Dr. Carol Reynolds (of Discovering Music) talks about this in her convention talks.  SMU just did a huge, swanky renovation to their student services area, making it very hip, and this is NOT a podunk school!  

 

Well that was your rabbit trail.  :D

[Alessandra]

Halcyon

I finally looked at your first thread. EF is a tough beast to control! My opinion, fwiw, is that the discipline/consequences that work on typical kids don't have as much impact on EF kids, even if you remove screen time from the equation. Btw, your first post could have been written about my ds.

 

Oh Elizabeth

Thanks for the links. You are always such a fount of good information!

 

ETA just saw your second post. That is fascinating about your dd.

[Halcyon]

Ooo, I didn't know there was a SbS teens!  Good idea!  I'm too scattered to remember what we've liked.   :smilielol5:   If you follow the suggestions on amazon you'll get a lot of hits.  Try the library.  Nan in Mass has listed some in the past, and we have had lists on the LC board.  I think the one That Crumpled Paper Was my Homework was good.  I used to keep index cards on my reading and don't anymore.  So many books to me aren't worth buying, because you only read them once and move on, kwim?  Recently some people suggested books on adhd organizing solutions, and seriously those have been AWESOME.  They go into so many practical areas. If there are EF issues, not like it's affecting JUST his schoolwork.  

 

Have you looked at metronome stuff?  Heathermomster has had some posts on LC explaining that.  You can actually target the EF portion of the brain and get it to move.  You'll sometimes see RADICAL changes in a student.  Seriously, it's free and can make a HUGE difference.  Linguisystems sells an EF training book that is worthwhile, partly for what it does and partly for how it helps you see all the areas the EF portion of the brain is affecting and how you can get more of this out in the open and discussed.  Our psych used the word inefficient for dd, and that was such a huge mind shift for me.  It's so easy to get negative or frustrated, then I remember she's just being inefficient and that we need to anticipate and try to explore ways to approach xyz efficiently from the beginning.

 

 

What's the metronome stuff?

[Halcyon]

Here's the link for that book.  It's $2.99 on amazon for kindle right now.  Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD, 2nd Edition-Revised and Updated: Tips and Tools to Help You Take Charge...  It's not student-specific, but it's just good overall.  You probably have more going on with how to keep rooms clean, how to declutter, etc. etc.

 

Btw, have you seen the Eides' blog postings about the profoundly gifted and their different EF curve?  

 

 

Mostly we have stuff with getting out the door on time, and being able to stay ON TASK without getting distracted by the dog, the lint on his shirt, the clouds or his playing cards. 

[Halcyon]

Halcyon

I finally looked at your first thread. EF is a tough beast to control! My opinion, fwiw, is that the discipline/consequences that work on typical kids don't have as much impact on EF kids, even if you remove screen time from the equation. Btw, your first post could have been written about my ds.

 

Oh Elizabeth

Thanks for the links. You are always such a fount of good information!

 

ETA just saw your second post. That is fascinating about your dd.

 

 

It really is nice to know I am not alone. DS is so bright, ahead in just about every subject, able to take high school courses and KEEP UP.,....but I am pulling my hair out with his continual distraction, his continual misplacement of everything from his schoolbooks to his ipod to his guitar tuner to his library book and the fact that we are almost always late or rushing to get to my activities because he is so disorganized and SLOW getting ready. I am thinking this book will help.

 

Also, I have put up a large whiteboard with my daily expectations for each day. It's RIGHT in the living room, much to DH's dismay, but DS needs to have things front and center and clearly outlined. Putting his list on a piece of paper inside a notebook which will of course get lost will NOT work. On his whiteboard, for example, I have put:

 

1. take Latin and Science tests by 5 pm Sunday

2. Brush teeth after lunch

3. Call YMCA and ask when first practice is scheduled. Put in calendar.

4. Water plants by front door.

 

I think a "one stop shopping" list for him with everything that he needs to do on it will help. Maybe not, but so far he has checked off three things on the list. 

[Halcyon]

Here's the link for that book.  It's $2.99 on amazon for kindle right now.  Organizing Solutions for People with ADHD, 2nd Edition-Revised and Updated: Tips and Tools to Help You Take Charge...  It's not student-specific, but it's just good overall.  You probably have more going on with how to keep rooms clean, how to declutter, etc. etc.

 

Btw, have you seen the Eides' blog postings about the profoundly gifted and their different EF curve?  

 

\Do you have a link to the blog postings?

[PeterPan]

I'm lazy, so google for the Eides.  :D

 

Hmm, on your whiteboard you're getting the idea, but could you take it even further?  I've posted my dd's checklists on and off over the years.  Maybe I can post hers from last week.  

 

Without evals you don't know if this is super high IQ with a different EF curve or actual adhd.  Given the processing speed you described in the other thread, it's probably adhd.  Honestly, the evals were for ME.  I walked in with so much I was frustrated about, sat on the couch, and the psych just TOOK it and listened.  He could be calm and removed.  It was very cathartic.  It gave us a way to START OVER, fresh, with new tools.  We started our evals right about the age your boy is too. She was 10, turning 11, when we started with the vision evals, then they referred for OT and the OT referred for the psych.  Took me a full year to accept that I REALLY NEEDED the psych eval.  My dd is no shabby scholar either, if ya' know what I mean.  Her brightness was compensating, and I just thought we'd do this, do that, work it out.  For us the psych eval was the TURNING POINT to a much better life together.  We got all kinds of things out in the open, got explanations, got ideas, got the right words for things so I could get in the stream of better help.  There is just NO COMPARISON between the frustration we had then and the PEACE we have now.  Same child, same oblivious, radically disorganized mother, but now we have PEACE.   I wish it for you too.  :)

 

Oh, you're talking distractions.  We've had some threads on this on LC.  You know the LC board doesn't bite, right?  You know it's not the "my kids are stupid" board, right?  Lots of people on there have super bright kids.  Maybe they're not as bright as yours, hehe.  Just saying it's a fun place to come hang and talk this things.  Make the jump.  It's just one more board you can belong in, like Accelerated, etc.  :)

 

Back to distractions!  Barb in (oh foo I forget names) suggested the JBuds earbuds, and they have turned out to be awesome for dd.  She works in a quiet office with dark walls and only a teeny tiny window.  Ability to handle distractions?  Well that's rough.  External distractions we can work on and work on coping mechanisms.  (finding a conducive spot, etc.)  Internal is worse.  Sometimes it's not the stuff you're thinking and you haven't noticed the pattern yet.  My dd used to be wiped out on certain days, and it's because we had worn her out (with the low processing speed and working at her ability level) the day before.  She has transition issues on Monday if she doesn't do school work on Sunday.  There are just all kinds of internal things like that.  Sometimes it's that the wind is blowing or it's snowing.  Like seriously, they sorta have Mary Poppins in their blood.   :lol:   And sometimes it's that she doesn't feel she has ENOUGH to do that she wants to do.  It's convoluted, but she seems to work faster when she has an end goal, a target.  She likes the structure of a deadline, something she's getting it done for.  (leaving to go to a friend's, going to a sport event, that sort of thing)

 

Well keep working on it.  It's a journey.  :)

[Jennifer-72]

This blog by an SLP has good info and executive function treatment ideas. http://www.therapyandlearningservices.com/-blog.html

 

Sara Ward of Cognitive Connections has excellent ideas for teaching sweep of time. Much better to make sure children have a good sense of sweep of time before you can go further with teaching how to manage time. I have read a few of her PowerPoint presentations that I found online. I don't have the links here on the iPad, I will try and post them later. You can also try searching on Pintest for executive functioning. Here is another blog that talks about some of Sara Ward's time ideas http://abbypediatricot.blogspot.ca/2013/03/teaching-elapsed-time.html

 

One strategy that was a helpful here was keeping a big chart listing a whole bunch of our different routines on it and have ds do time estimates on each of them. Then over a course of a week we kept track of the actual time it took him to do those things.

[Soror]

I thought about replying to your other post but I guess my thoughts fit just as well here. I was thinking what OhElizabeth wrote below, I think an eval would likely be very helpful.

 

Without evals you don't know if this is super high IQ with a different EF curve or actual adhd.  Given the processing speed you described in the other thread, it's probably adhd.  

I'm certainly not an expert either, far, far from it but your description of your son sounds like so many of the descriptions I've read from ADHD adults describing their childhood. People assume it is because they are lazy or they just don't care when in reality they just cannot focus and in the end you're punishing them for something they lack the ability to do, instead what they need is scaffolding w/ EF, punishing doesn't help in the least. They need great help organizing. They can be very smart (although not always) and they can use that intelligence to often make up for their deficits but that only gets them so far. 

 

I don't have any great recs as I've just started my study but I've got some links on another thread about working memory and executive function issues here.

[Alessandra]

I thought about replying to your other post but I guess my thoughts fit just as well here. I was thinking what OhElizabeth wrote below, I think an eval would likely be very helpful.

I'm certainly not an expert either, far, far from it but your description of your son sounds like so many of the descriptions I've read from ADHD adults describing their childhood. People assume it is because they are lazy or they just don't care when in reality they just cannot focus and in the end you're punishing them for something they lack the ability to do, instead what they need is scaffolding w/ EF, punishing doesn't help in the least. They need great help organizing. They can be very smart (although not always) and they can use that intelligence to often make up for their deficits but that only gets them so far.

 

I don't have any great recs as I've just started my study but I've got some links on another thread about working memory and executive function issues here.

What you said about needing scaffolding is so true, IMO. I sometimes have hesitated to post about that, as I thought there would be people who said that, if parents were just was firm, consistent, made dc take responsibility, etc, it would all work out. Scaffolding, or helping a lot with aspects of daily life, can help dc focus on one area, without having to manage more than they are capable of.

 

I was very glad when I read that exact advice in the Late, Lost and Unprepared book.

[PeterPan]

What you said about needing scaffolding is so true, IMO. I sometimes have hesitated to post about that, as I thought there would be people who said that, if parents were just was firm, consistent, made dc take responsibility, etc, it would all work out. Scaffolding, or helping a lot with aspects of daily life, can help dc focus on one area, without having to manage more than they are capable of.

 

I was very glad when I read that exact advice in the Late, Lost and Unprepared book.

Dude, there was a WORD for what I did?   :lol:   Awesome.  I always love it when people know the fancy terms.  :)

[SunnyDays]

So, if my "Smart but Scattered" son is 11, and probably returning to school next year, should I get the original SBS, or SBS Teens??  Thinking about looking at Crumpled Paper as well.

 

Halcyon, I've been reading a couple articles online today by someone named Amy Yermish... she has a few articles on Davidson Gifted's website, here's one:

 

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10471.aspx

 

I don't know how much practical advice these have, but it's been something interesting for my brain to chew on this afternoon.  She also has a blog I saw earlier with more articles.