Halcyon Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I am reading a book now that I would love to discuss with others. Maybe from there people can suggest other books they want to read, and each person can lead discussion for a month? The book I am reading now which I would like to discuss with others is called The Enemy Within, available for $3 on kindle: http://www.amazon.com/The-Enemy-Within-Straight-Defeat/dp/0875522017 Anyone interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I would be interested. I'm glad you shared this book! I have tried to read John Owen's The Mortification of Sin (not long ago, actually) but I just don't have the time/mental energy right now to distill his language. I haven't done an online book club before... how does this work? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'm interested. Just purchased it for my Kindle, so count me in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Will look at the book when i get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would be interested. I'm glad you shared this book! I have tried to read John Owen's The Mortification of Sin (not long ago, actually) but I just don't have the time/mental energy right now to distill his language. I haven't done an online book club before... how does this work? Basically, each day or two we will read a different section of the book and discuss it. I would say, given the way this book is set up, that we can read two chapters a week and use the questions at the end of each section for discussion. If we want to move slower, we can, or if we hit a particularly juicy part, we can slow down. We can post thoughts and discussions here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Okay, let's read the first chapter by Monday or so (they're really short) and ponder the questions. We can post our thoughts early next week. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Sounds good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I read Chapter 1. Ready to discuss when everyone else is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am done, will post when kids are in bed. Do you want to post your answers to the end of chapter questions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Okay, sorry I didn't post this last night. Too tired! Here are my answers to the end of The Power of Sin in What it Is: Evil at my Elbow 1) "For I do not understand my actions"--THIS! So true. I try and I try but still I fail. Whether it's not getting irritated with my dawdling son during homeschool, or not feeling annoyed when my husband leaves his dirty shoes in the hallway, or pushing myself to complete tasks that NOBODY BUT ME cares about....I do not understand why I do the things I do, when I know they're not right. "Sin that dwells in me": it helps to think that there is this...thing called Sin inside me that has a name, that is not me exactly but resides inside me. When I think the doer of the evil is actually me, I lose hope. But if I think of it as indwelling sin that I need to resist with the grace of God, that helps give me perspective. It's not like I say "oh, it's not my fault, it's the sin's fault" but it helps to thnik of it as not wholly a part of me, not an integral part of me. Does that makes sense? "For I have the desire to do what is good for me but not the ability to carry it out." Okay, so i can't do this through willpower, or guilt-tripping myself. I need something else, I need grace. It is the sin dwelling in me that does the evil, and the only way to combat that evil is through God and God's grace. Is it odd to not blame myself for my poor behavior? When I lose my temper with my boys, isn't that me? Or is that sin in me? The book says the latter. Does this let me off the hook, so to speak? No, but I am still unclear. 2) Rewards for obeying sin: success! money, power! If I obey sin I can have a few beers and relax with my friends and not worry about getting up for prayer. If I obey sin I can fall victim to self-pity. If I obey sin I can yell at my husband when he pisses me off because after all, HE'S WRONG, RIGHT? If I obey sin, I will have a super clean house (because I will fall victim to the sin of pride and perfectionism and just not stop til the house is Martha Stewart perfect, even if my kids want me to play cards with them or fly their helicopters outside. Even if it means I don't go on my meditative walk with the dogs. My house will be perfect!!! That for me would be succumbing to sin because my sin is pride and perfectionism. Punishment for ignoring sin? less success? a messy house? imperfect kids who don't know all their math facts? LOL I don't know. 3) The law of sin inside me: when I wanted my business to succeed at almost any cost. my home life suffered, my peace suffered, my prayer life suffered, my health suffered, my diet suffered, my sanity! I made my business my idol--I have also made my homeschooling my idol, where I am determined to do a better job than anyone else, have kids who knew everything, wouldn't embarrass me by not knowing how many nickels are in a quarter or how to do their long division. I would push and push to be sure that _I_ didn't look foolish, all because of fear and pride. 4) The most frustrating thing about sin in my heart is that I can't seem to get rid of it. It's always there. 5) Hope in God and His Grace. 6) The need to be on guard. The need to be watchful. That much as I might LIKE to be good and righteous, the flesh fights me constantly. 7) I hope to gain the ability to guard against sin, to have more grace in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I also have to say: I woke up this morning in a good mood, sure we would have a wonderful light day of history and science work and then head off to coop. I was feeling open, happy, and relaxed. But somehow, everything went wrong, my kids would not stop goofing around during history time, and despite warnings, I told them that they would have to finish their work tonight because "I wasn't going to waste my time while they goofed around". :confused1: i was really annoyed. i feel like I say things 100 times "Stop goofing around during homeschool. Stop poking/pinching/making faces at your brother during homeschool. Focus on your work." And yet they doni't listen and then I get upset. So much for recognizing and countering my indwelling sin. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 My struggles sound similar to yours, Halcyon. Here are my answers for Chapter 1: 1) All of Romans 7 speaks to me, but especially verses 21-23, "So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work within me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me." I feel like an almost constant war is raging within me. I have anger issues that I've been dealing with for a while now. I'll be totally transparent here. My oldest child, after returning from a tour in Afghanistan in 2012, declared himself to be an atheist. I struggle with that. My anger is directed toward myself, though, not towards him. I keep questioning my parenting, how I lived as a Christian in front of him, the church we attended, etc. and blaming myself for his decision. I also have anger towards God, thinking why doesn't He "fix" this? Why doesn't He just show up in some mighty way and bring my son back to Him? Also, I have anger issues in relation to my youngest child. We adopted her from China four years ago and had no idea of the significance of her special needs. We thought she was only visually impaired, but in reality she is severely mentally insufficient & developmentally delayed & also has autistic tendencies. I also deal with anger towards God in this area as well. It spills over into every facet of my life. I lose my temper with my other kids & with my husband easily. I frequently hide in my room to silently "yell" and curse. There have been times where I literally felt like I was being ripped apart by the battle within me-the grace of God vs. the sin that dwells in me. I have terrible thoughts sometimes and I am somewhat comforted by knowing that it's not really "me" but the sin that lives in me. Still, though, as you mentioned, Halcyon, I don't want to blame my choices on sin-like I'm some helpless victim. 2) Rewards for sin: momentary gratification-Sometimes it feels good to "Let 'em have it!" Also, I feel like I deserve to get some things off my chest and make others feel the anger that I do. Punishment for ignoring sin? Feeling like a martyr or like I'm not free to do what I feel like doing 3) Bent to the law of sin-When I've yelled things at my family in moments of extreme anger; when I've kept on saying things even though the Holy Spirit inside me was telling me to be quiet and walk away & calm down; continuing down a line of self-thought that is damaging instead of taking every thought captive 4) The most frustrating thing about my sin is I feel powerless over it. I get so frustrated because I think it's been conquered & then it rears its ugly head again. 5) My hope is in Jesus and His saving grace. 6) Be on guard & be watchful for sin in our hearts and minds. Stay in a state of prayer & close fellowship with God. 7) Right now I need the desire for God to remove this sin from my heart and life. I am struggling with the lack of energy and motivation to really want it gone. It's like a security blanket to me right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Wow you are going through a lot! Anger seems to be a common theme. Anger that we can't bend reality to our will. Angry at the "way things are". Your son has declared himself an atheist. Your daughter is more mentally impaired than you imagined. That's a lot to be angry at. But. It's the way things are now. You cannot change any of it, only God can. Only God can help you live with grace, compassion and acceptance. I think for both of us (and please excuse me if I am reading things into your post) we need to rely on God more, rely on God's will and grace more, and not feel like we need to change things, but rather pray for the grace to accept things, to be able to move through the day with peace and calm. (That would be a miracle LOL). To not get worked up and pissed off at things, but to learn that we are not in control AT ALL. That's hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think for me too another question is how not to let SIN get control when things are going awry. Which they do. Sin would be acting in anger, yelling, trying to control. What would grace be? If my son is backtalking or rolling his eyes, how can I respond? I try and remain calm, but it rarely produces the response from him that I want. And I get ticked off. So i take away privileges...and he cries and apologizes and I realize he's just a boy trying to figure out this growing up thing. Okay, so I can't excuse the behavior but i have to have GRACE in my response, and recognize that he's just confused. I can't let sin take control of my mouth and my energy and my spirit. I just can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I think you nailed it. I get angry when things happen that are out of my control and when reality is so different from my expectations. Then I allow sin to take over and skew my view of every part of my life. Grace is accepting the realities with peace and trusting God to work all things for our good. When responding to our children, I feel that we must give them consequences for negative behavior, but do so calmly and with the mindset that they are humans, just like us, and will fail-just like we do. Then let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Okay this is good stuff. I am going to go ahead and reread the next section. Should we post our responses by, say, thurs or fri? Anyone else want to join in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'll be ready by Thurs. or Fri. This is good stuff! Thanks for starting it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Responses to Chapter 2: 1) Believers should know the power of indwelling sin so that we can begin to fight it. If we don't recognize something, then it's impossible to confront it & gain victory over it. And, if we know how powerful it is, then we know how much we must rely on God to fight that sin that indwells us. It's a constant thing that we must be aware of. 2) If we ignore this "rhino," then it will surely have victory over us. The author states that if we aren't fighting it, then we are not born of God. I believe that is true to some extent, but I also believe there can be times in which a believer is so weary & worn that he/she has (temporarily?) lost the will to fight. For my own struggles right now, I am still feeling the battle within me & I do want to have victory over the rhino that is indwelling sin, but there are times that I just feel too exhausted to put forth the effort it requires. 3) The weapons I need are Scripture and prayer. I can bring them to bear against indwelling sin by quoting Scripture that combats what sin is telling me or leading me to do. If I'm in a close relationship with God through prayer, then I am more strengthened in Him & able to see & believe His truth & live in His grace. 4) Rewards offered by the law of sin for: adultery: momentary gratification, pleasing the flesh; vengeance: revenge and vindication feel good, feeling justified; gossip: tearing others down can make people feel good about themselves, makes one feel as though they are part of "the group" spiritual laziness: this allows a person to stay in his/her comfort zone, not having to do spend time, money, or effort in doing things you don't want to do. Right now I am finding the rewards of spiritual laziness most enticing because I can just live my life and be "comfortable." I am really hoping to break free of that, and I believe this book study is a step in the right direction. 5) Burdens/crosses to follow Christ's call in: Marriage: putting my husband before myself, speaking words that build him up, sacrificing my needs for his Things I'm most reluctant to do in my marriage: bite my tongue when I want to speak harshly (especially when I'm right), give him the benefit of the doubt, not get angry when he wants to spend most of his free time hunting (deer season where we live right now), not to feel like he's ignoring/neglecting me when life gets busy, see the good things about him and not only the bad Ministry: give of myself, make sacrifices Things I'm most reluctant to do in ministry: Instead of just praying (not that that's not the most important thing) about the needs of others, actually do something to meet them. Volunteer to teach a class or lead a Bible study. Attend Bible studies that others are leading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 I am sorry i haven't posted. I will have time this evening i believe to write and read through your thoughts. Thank you so much for keeping up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Chapter 2 responses; 1) by knowing the power of indwelling sin, i can better resist it. I can better be equipped to recognize it when i see it, rather than succumb. i can turn to Jesus and ask for His help rather than just floating along on the power of indwelling sin. Recognizing the power of sin is the first step to conquering it. 2) If we ignore indwelling sin, we move farther from the life God intended for us to live. We move farther from God Himself and closer to Satan. I think it does require constant effort and attentiveness, which is very tiring, but I think the more we focus on God and the life He envisions for us, the easier it becomes (over time, of course). I think that sometimes I can recognize the sin, but still succumb, not simply due to fatigue but because it's easier to rant and rave and wail and yell than it is to step back and see things from God's perspective, from the perspective of goodness and light. I often get ticked off and feel borne along by a wave of irritation. 3) what weapons? Prayer. Reading my Bible daily. Not over scheduling myself or my kids (hard!) so that I have the mental space and time to breathe and reflect on my actions and not just REACT. When I feel overwhelmed, remember the peace of God and remember that indwelling sin is NOT ME. 4) lIst of rewards: adultery: feeling loved, appreciated, attractive, young. Vengeance: ah sweet revenge! getting back at someone, feeling success, feeling you "won". Gossip: something to talk about, feeling connected, feeling "in the know" about things. A sense of superiority if you're gossiping about someone who has "failed" or fallen short ("thank god it's not me sort of feeling). Spiritual laziness: not sure about the rewards for this one. 5) burdens that i least want to carry: I was not raised in a religious family, so religion is pretty much hogwash, hooey and "for stupid people" in my family. So I am very bad about talking about my faith with family and friends, because nobody I know (very few people) is religious at all (except friends from church). I don't think anybody I know in reali life (outside of church people) know how committed I am to Christ. Not even my husband, although he has a better sense. I just don't discuss it, for fear of being considered a Jesus freak. So proclaiming my faith is definitely a cross I do not bear, am scared to bear, right now. In marriage, it means being more agreeable (I am so argumentative!). Patience! I need to cultivate that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 I am going to read ch 3 again tonight. How bout we shoot for Friday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Friday is good with me. And I think you brought up several good points in your chapter two responses. It is definitely easier to just yell and vent than it is to step back and see things through God's eyes. Also, when you talk about overscheduling, I think that is a big part of my problem right now. We attend a once-a-week co-op and I'm responsible for teaching the younger children for two hours each week and it requires a lot of planning on my part, which I'm finding very taxing when you add it in to all my other tasks, especially caring for a special needs child. I feel overwhelmed most of the time. I discussed everything with my husband tonight & we set forth some ground rules for my older children to help more. Hopefully we'll see some headway there. I really need some "breathing room" to be able to live in the grace that God desires for me, rather than allowing indwelling sin to dictate my thoughts and actions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Responses to chapter 3: 1) Oh, how I wish that sin could be beaten in a single crisis event! Of course it cannot. It is an ongoing battle and struggle that we face daily and will until we die. Pleasant, huh? 2) I feel that God has set things up in this way so that we can clearly see and feel the need we have for Him. If we could conquer sin in one fell swoop, then we would do so and be prideful about what we can do, rather than being humbled and seeing how desperately we need a Savior. Of course we would prefer a one-time knockout fight so we could conquer sin and be done with it. Not having to battle it on a daily basis would be wonderful. 3) Hebrews 12: 1-4: We can take encouragement from believers who have gone before us. Their testimonies encourage us to keep running this race and fighting against sin. We can look to Jesus and all that he suffered and know that He gives us strength in our battle. Matthew 16: 6: I believe this is a warning against pride. As we know, pride goes before destruction. When we have some success at conquering sin, we need to be careful and always remember that God is our strength and the only way in which we can accomplish anything good. Matthew 26:41: We need to be in constant fellowship with God and schedule a regular prayer and Scripture time. We need to be aware of our weaknesses so that we can be on guard, especially in those areas. Luke 12:15: Do not be consumed by material possessions or the desire for them. 1 Corinthians 16:13: We must be brave in standing up for our faith. We must be strong in the daily battle against sin. 2 Peter 3:17: We need to stand strong in our convictions so that we will not be swayed to fall into sin. 4) I am still working on this one. Being honest here - I do NOT look forward to having God search my heart and dredge up the worst sins he can find. I know that He already knows them, but I need to confront them and list them one by one and truly repent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Halcyon, is everything okay with you? Hopefully you've just been busy. Just checking in to make sure you're all right. ETA: I just read your post about depression. I am praying for you. We'll get back to the book club when you feel like it. I'm in no rush. Take care of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thank you - I have been feeling guilty for not posting on this wonderful thread. I really appreciate your patience. I am feeling a bit better now, so hopefully this weekend I can catch up. Actually, I have already written my notes out, just havent typed them in. Thanks for posting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissKNG Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Here are some ideas for future books! http://www.gfa.org/offer/freebook/ (currently reading the above and it's great!!) http://www.gfa.org/book/ (this should arrive soon!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Anyone want to try a new book and start this over? I would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Do you have a book to suggest? What about this one: http://www.cph.org/p-23688-ruth-more-than-a-love-story.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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