Will you tell me about your TOG experience?

[LAmom]

I've been looking at TOG...well, drooling over it, for years.  I, in the past, decided my kids were too young.  Now I have a child that will be 6th grade next year and ready to step things up a notch.  I have Yr 2, Unit 2 free from the offer they were having.  Yes!!

 

Anyways, after we finish MOH2 I will be able to start the free unit and see if I like it.  Part of me wants to just start it now, since we will soon be doing Fall of Rome, so I could start Yr 2, Unit 1.

 

Do you think it is worth it?  It seems like I may get overwhelmed and then just end up using SOTW audio on hectic weeks.  Then what is the point?  The Literature part is really tempting but why not just use some lit guides (like Memoria Press)?  I do like the information provided for dialectic and rhetoric.  I am not sure that I would actually have time for the discussions like they suggest.  Are they time consuming?  I think that I could probably plan, though having to get to the library every week or every other is one reason I wasn't that crazy about MFW.  I am tempted to just go back to MFW but the years overlap of MOH and MFW don't match up well.

 

So, anything about your experience would be helpful.  I have 5 kids, one being a very busy and loud toddler.  

 

I guess I'm not sure if I'd use enough of TOG to make it worth it.  Not planning on Writing Aids, but would use the Lit., History core and SOTW, geography, though my husband wants the kids to stay in CC so that would be a lot of geography...

 

FWIW, I'm already struggling to get the basics all done before lunch.  I have an hour or 2 after lunch for history and OTHER.  That would be enough for TOG?

 

THANKS! 

[boscopup]

For the ages you have, TOG shouldn't take that long. I'm using year 4 unit 1 (the free unit), and we just finished week 6. So I've been using it 6 weeks total with a 4th grader and 1st grader (and preschool tag-along). I usually do my 1st grader's seat work while my 4th grader does about half his seatwork in the morning, then we do science OR TOG, followed by lunch. I have an hour each day planned for those. I'm not a project mom, so while we'll do the occasional project, we don't do one every week (we did do the salt dough maps in the first week, as they taught various land forms, and that was kind of cool). My 1st grader typically has one or two history books for me to read aloud to him throughout the week (and I can often read the whole week's worth of one of those books in a sitting), and then he has a literature book for me to read to him - again, done in one sitting (it's a picture book). My UG student reads all of his history on his own, as well as his literature. So I really don't have a lot to do with him yet. I'll sometimes have him give me an oral narration or tell me about someone he has been reading about that week. Since I read the teacher notes, I know what he's talking about. The teacher notes take me, a slowish reader, about an hour to read. I don't read them every week (since I just have LG/UG students), but I try to get to that. I don't read my UG student's books at all. (Note: My UG student is a very fast reader, and there is no way I could ever pre-read everything he reads!)

 

I use the map aids, but not the writing aids. I will sometimes use a writing assignment, but you don't need writing aids for that. The writing assignments are in the main year plan.

 

I originally had thoughts of using SOTW with TOG, but I've ended up not doing that. If you have the audio version of SOTW, go for it. But if it's you reading aloud, honestly, I'd suggest not worrying about it (if you're strapped for time). The books assigned cover the material very well at appropriate ages.

 

Library usage... This one might kill you. I find the library essential. Many books are only used one or two weeks, and they use a LOT of books. Buying them would be incredibly expensive. Most of the books are ones that are great to check out and read once, but I don't feel the need to own them, kwim? My library is 25 minutes away, and I go online every 2 weeks and put books on hold (I have made "lists" on my account to save the TOG books, so it's a quick and easy process to select the books from those lists and put them on hold). I do this on Sunday before going the following Friday to get them. I get 2 weeks worth of books at a time. Going to the library every 2 weeks, I don't have late fees - it's a habit. And putting the books on hold makes it easy to drop in and get what I need easily - no searching through the shelves (this is essential with toddlers in tow!).

 

Oh, and I forgot that there is a read-aloud each week that often lasts 3-4 weeks. I read that during our "history time" a few times a week. The one for this week I'm not doing at this point in time, as it seemed a bit too in-depth and long for my younger crowd. I'll hit it next time through the cycle when my youngest will be 3rd grade. That read-aloud should be perfect then.

 

Certainly give the free unit a try to see how it works for YOU. Everyone is different. Some folks get overwhelmed by TOG, and some find it easy to use (I'm in the latter camp - it just makes sense to me). Again, I can't speak to D/R levels yet. I'm sure it gets harrier then, with the discussions and such, but at least it provides the discussions that include critical thinking! I need that handholding. :lol:

[LAmom]

That was very helpful! Where is the read aloud book listed?

[Random]

 

 

Do you think it is worth it?  It seems like I may get overwhelmed and then just end up using SOTW audio on hectic weeks.  Then what is the point?  The Literature part is really tempting but why not just use some lit guides (like Memoria Press)?  I do like the information provided for dialectic and rhetoric.  I am not sure that I would actually have time for the discussions like they suggest.  Are they time consuming?  I think that I could probably plan, though having to get to the library every week or every other is one reason I wasn't that crazy about MFW.  I am tempted to just go back to MFW but the years overlap of MOH and MFW don't match up well.

 

THANKS! 

 

I do think it's worth it, personally, but you'll just have to try it out and see how it works for your family.  The reason I like TOG over doing lit guides like MP is because the lit in TOG compliments the history.  And the Teacher's Notes are excellent.  I will need them.  My own education was not..uh..stellar, to say the least.  I'll need the in-depth notes in TOG to really know if my student is doing his work, because I've not read most of what he will be reading in D and R stages.

 

As far as the discussions, you don't have to do them.  However, if your children are like my children, they will need that accountability as motivation to get their work done.  The weeks I am too busy to follow up and check my children's work are the weeks they say they have done everything on their schedule, but they actually didn't.  The discussions have to happen regularly so that my children don't think I'll never find out if they don't do their work. 

 

We do not use the library often.  My best library option is 60 miles away, and it is not very good at all.  Since we are still in UG, I substitute a lot with what is available at my library.  I am hopeful that there will be fewer books to use in D and that I will be able to get many of them inexpensively or maybe even at my library.  I think Bookshelf Central has a book rental program, or at least a used book section to browse.

 

The only way to know if it will work is if you just try it for a while. 

Best wishes to you!

[Kathie in VA]

My first try with TOG was a few years ago and it didn't work out.. somehow we didn't get out of the fog.. maybe it was because it was the classic version or maybe I had too many little ones and older ones who were struggling.

 

I went back to it last year when I decided to join a co-op that was starting to use it.  This worked out great.  Other moms worked with my LG kid and did all the crafts without the baby all over it, my middle school guy got to participate in history and literature discussions and learn more about how to write out answers and keep up with a class, and my high school guy enjoyed some deeper discussions as I and another mom took him a few others through the history while another mom worked with the literature.  

 

I did notice that the rhetoric level seemed to be better laid out then the dialectic level.  Also the history and geography were very straight forward.  The literature took me some more work.  I used to view them both as just content subjects but when I ended up taking over the literature I realized that they were also teaching skills... more so there then in history.  Although both do a great job at bringing them up from a dialectic level discussion to a rhetoric level discussion.

 

I know it is best to do all the reading myself also but I just didn't have the time.  The teachers guide did give me what I needed to walk them through the questions .. although it didn't always give direct answers ... there was enough there so I didn't need to look elsewhere.  I also love how they have geography maps laid out for each week.. very helpful.

 

The dialectic level is doing a great job teaching my ds how to find the answers, infer the answers, pace himself to get the assigned portions done, and how to prepare to participate in group discussions (his favorite part).

 

Next year might be harder as my LG gal moves up to UG and we start her on some weekly homework.  However since I've seen the rhetoric last year and I'm seeing more of the dialectic this year, I know it will be leading her to where I want her ... college ready.

 

So we are using history/geography and literature and we pull vocabulary from the literature books.  We do not use the Writing Aides since we have decided to go with Classical Writing.. I'm hoping at some point to line up the models with our history and/or literature.  It looks like we be able to move our dialectic group up to rhetoric next year and I am looking forward to it.  Our first rhetoric group has some kids who weren't really ready for this level of work and as a result they had some real troubles.  However this group will have had 2 years in dialectic so they will be well set.  We are considering adding a second day for the rhetoric classes ... one hour per subject is really tight .. and we are considering adding in some of the electives..

 

It is expensive since I choose to buy all the books .. I never seem to have the time to get to the library ... and there are many home schoolers here, so books aren't always available when you might need them.  However with multiple kids I should be able to reuse many of the books.  I expect, if we all keep going, that when we loop back to year 1 there will be many years I will not have to purchase books .. or maybe only a few.  And I'm getting the digital versions so I will not need to make another TOG purchase after two more years!  Mind you my youngest is only 3 years old so I have plenty of years left.

 

hths

 

 

[boscopup]

That was very helpful! Where is the read aloud book listed?

It's in the week plan reading assignments, below the literature, iirc (I'm not near my week plan right now). Sometimes it's extra details about the history (our first one was Kids at Work, which showed child labor in the early 1900s), and sometimes it's a literature book (Pollyanna was our last read aloud). The read-aloud spans the age groups in the reading assignments list.

[Heartsjoy]

I've been looking at TOG...well, drooling over it, for years.  I, in the past, decided my kids were too young.  Now I have a child that will be 6th grade next year and ready to step things up a notch.  I have Yr 2, Unit 2 free from the offer they were having.  Yes!!

 

Anyways, after we finish MOH2 I will be able to start the free unit and see if I like it.  Part of me wants to just start it now, since we will soon be doing Fall of Rome, so I could start Yr 2, Unit 1.

 

Do you think it is worth it?  It seems like I may get overwhelmed and then just end up using SOTW audio on hectic weeks.  Then what is the point?  The Literature part is really tempting but why not just use some lit guides (like Memoria Press)?  I do like the information provided for dialectic and rhetoric.  I am not sure that I would actually have time for the discussions like they suggest.  Are they time consuming?  I think that I could probably plan, though having to get to the library every week or every other is one reason I wasn't that crazy about MFW.  I am tempted to just go back to MFW but the years overlap of MOH and MFW don't match up well.

 

So, anything about your experience would be helpful.  I have 5 kids, one being a very busy and loud toddler.  

 

I guess I'm not sure if I'd use enough of TOG to make it worth it.  Not planning on Writing Aids, but would use the Lit., History core and SOTW, geography, though my husband wants the kids to stay in CC so that would be a lot of geography...

 

FWIW, I'm already struggling to get the basics all done before lunch.  I have an hour or 2 after lunch for history and OTHER.  That would be enough for TOG?

 

THANKS! 

 

Do you think it is worth it?

 

TOG has been worth every penny for us. I wanted all of us to be on one main history topic. I wanted to be the teacher and lead the discussions in junior high and highschool. And  Oh, My, the discussions. This week my 14 dd and I discussed if the Mexican American War was a just war based on Thomas Aquinus's definitions.

 

I guess I'm not sure if I'd use enough of TOG to make it worth it.

 

Using LIt, History, SOTW, and Geography would be most of TOG. The real meat of TOG is when using it at the Dialectic level and Rhetoric level. I have one 14dd using history, geography,philosophy, government, and church history, a 12ds using history, church history, geography, and literature, and a 10ds using history and geography.  I use other curriculum for writing and literature varies based on the child. I often supplement with Progeny Press study guides in upper grammar and when my dialectic level student is youngish and not ready for the mature themes. There are also fine arts, hands- on projects, philosophy, Bible, church history, government, and supplements like plays and board games.

 

Honestly TOG is not worth the cost to use K-5th, if it is not used on into high school. It is worth the cost at the ages your kids are if you like what you see in the upper levels of the sample and plan to continue through junior high and/or high school. Tapestry was designed with high school running the show, and everyone else tagging along. Another option, if you are still not sure after the sample, is to buy the print version which is resalable with some of the spine books new. These resell well as upper grammar or dialectic packages.

 

I think the best question to ask in evaluating the worth of TOG: Would TOG be a likely fit in junior high and high school?

 

 

I tried posting a file of the hours involved for my kids and I. I'd be happy to email or answer other questions. You can PM me

 

[Heartsjoy]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/491478-tapestry-of-grace-question/?hl=tog&do=findComment&comment=5259367

 

Here's a similar helpful thread.

[bluemongoose]

Well we are in our 4th year and we do think it is worth it. I have 1 in UG and 2 in LG this year. We are in Y4 U2 and learning about WW2. Today at lunch my 3 children were having an animated discussion about Hitler. I love that they are all learning about the same things so that they can talk about it. We have een skipping the read aloud portion because my kids will not sit for it. I am hoping to incorporate that next year. I do all the reading for my LG kids, but my UG student reads independently. She says she has really enjoyed the literature this year.

 

I really like that geography, history, lit, and vocabulary all link together too. IMO my kids remember a lot more because it makes more sense when you tackle things chronologically and when multiple subjects are working together to help it sink in.

 

It can be a bit expensive, but as you can reuse it for younger kids, it wont be that much in the long run. Also, you can purchase a lot used if you do not have a good library. I don't so I use paperbackswap to get quite a few of my books. I also use RR or Amazon for what I cannot get used. If you have the time to spend, you can bring the cost down.

[LAmom]

I feel pretty comfortable with the DE free unit I have.  YR1, U2.  I am actually considering getting U1 to start....now....since we are approaching that age period.  I could slowly ease into it with focus on the history core reading and some literature, using SOTW audio and see how it goes?  Then next year add more in.  I am struggling to see where the difficulties with the "fog" come in--but maybe that will come for me when I try to actually implement TOG!!  The younger kids really are still focusing on basics, though do enjoy history lessons.  My older daughter needs more and I was thinking the literature in TOG and extra read alouds would be just the right fix.  I am not sure if she is UG or D so maybe I will try out UG for her.  I'm not so sure my 3rd grade ds is ready for LG!!  The literature part independently at least...

 

SO, should I buy unit 1?  I do love having things in my hands but it seems like a lot to have with a binder per unit.  It seems easy from the loom to print the pages the kids would need and I would read online or print things I want to write on (the reading schedule).  

 

They are doing CC right now so I am not sure if I would use the geography or not.  Maybe just have them look things up on a map.  Or should I dive in and get MapAids?  

 

What does a typical week look like for UG?  

Thanks.

[LAmom]

I should add that a hesitation is assuming I will use it through high school and investing a large sum into it then have it not work out for then!

[bluemongoose]

I obviously cannot promise you that it will work for you for high school. It is my hope and plan for us, but I cannot even promise myself that. You make the best investment and hope it works.

 

As far as the fog...you dont have to have it. Some do, some dont, I didnt. I spent a summer looking over the year one plan. I also established a block schedule to make it work out. To me the weekly prep-work feels little more than plugging in the assignment to our block schedule, gathering any needed supplies, and glancing over the teachers notes. Of course I do not have D or R students and am not preparing for the discussions...maybe that is when the fog will hit me? ;-)

 

As far as what it looks like with LG and UG. My LG students are read aloud all of the reading assignments. We break it up in smaller portions each day by subject...Mon: History Core, Tue: History in Depth etc. I spend most of my TOG time with the LG students right now. My UG student also has it broken down into chunks, but does the reading independently. To me the line between LG and UG has a lot to do with how well they can handle the reading assignments. If they can handle reading independently and keeping up with the assignments, they should be in UG, if not they should be LG.

 

We do geography together as a family. My kids really like geography time and I do think the Map aids are really well done. As I said before, I love having history and geography linked. One thing that has helped our geography time was to use clear return address labels to print the names of the places they are labeling. They enjoy their "stickers" because it allows them to focus on learning the map rather than struggling to write the names.

 

The thing I have learned about Tapestry is that the more time I put into planning in the summer, the smoother the year goes. I print all the SAP's, the maps, the evals, the geography labels, and the lapbooks in the summer. I bind together by the weekly work in order so they have it in workbook form. This makes the year so easy because the prepwork is complete and we can just get down to business.

[LAmom]

So the workbooks you make for your kids include the literature sheet (for appropriate LG, UG, etc) and the maps?  Anything else?  I see the loom has workbook content where by unit you can pick LG or UG, etc., and then print the whole set for the unit.  Is all of that in your workbooks?  

[TracyP]

Don't worry about the fog. I never saw it. :)

 

We meet on Friday to preview the upcoming week. We go over p.1 from the SAP, read a chapter of CHOW, and do geography. I put the reading assignments in their planners then through the week my two oldest (10 and 8) read independently. (If I had a lg student I would spend about 20-30 min per day reading the history core and lit and making a notebook page.) My 10 yo has some writing assigned every week: narration, outline, or WWS assignment using TOG topic. My 8yo makes a notebook page with a 2-3 sentence narration at the end of the week. We wrap on Thursday with a project and discussion.

 

It is not much work for me at all now that my kids can do the reading on their own. I preread the lit books so I can discuss them, but I do not read the Teacher's Notes at this point. I know that the D/R discussions will add some time when we get there, but I look forward to that. I also agree with the pp. Planning during the summer pays off big time around here.

 

 

[FriedClams]

9 weeks. It was just too much. Lots of too much. But my kids were little and I was one of THOSE moms of "gifted" early readers.... You know them.... LOL!!

 

I'm thinking about it next year! :-)

[LAmom]

If any of you use only DE, how do you organize what you print for yourself?  I don't think I will want to read Teacher's notes online so I will probably print those.  BUT, I will only print history background and not all of it yet.  I quickly printed all of YR2 U1 today that I thought I would want in my hand-- reading assignments, threads, etc.  I'm still confused on what is being put in workbooks for the kids?  The literature page and ??  

Thanks so much for the help you have given me so far!  Can you believe I just jumped in and in the middle of our school year am starting TOG?  Hope it goes well!  :)

[bluemongoose]

In the workbooks I put a title page for each week with a pic of something relevant to the week (this is obviously not necessary, but it helps them find the right week and it looks nice), the lit page, the map, a worksheet that I make with the vocab words (crosswords and the like), some coloring pages that are relevant to the reading (I copy these out of Dover coloring books), and the eval page. I do 2 workbooks per year as they are too fat to make a whole year into 1 book. So unit 1&2 go into one workbooks and unit 3&4 go in another.

 

The kids like to color the pages while I am reading aloud to them, and I like that it has something to do with what we are reading. My UG DD doesnt have much time for coloring these anymore, but she still likes me to include some. They are mainly for my LG students

 

The vocab worksheets I make from this software http://www.schoolhousetech.com/Vocabulary/ I use these for my UG student. I discuss vocabulary with the LG but it is not included in their workbook as they are not ready to complete work with this much reading and writing.

[TracyP]

If any of you use only DE, how do you organize what you print for yourself?  I don't think I will want to read Teacher's notes online so I will probably print those.  BUT, I will only print history background and not all of it yet.  I quickly printed all of YR2 U1 today that I thought I would want in my hand-- reading assignments, threads, etc.  I'm still confused on what is being put in workbooks for the kids?  The literature page and ??  

Thanks so much for the help you have given me so far!  Can you believe I just jumped in and in the middle of our school year am starting TOG?  Hope it goes well!   :)

 

I print pages 4-9 of each week plan to keep in my binder. This is Reading Assignments, Overview (student threads, people, vocab, timeline, activities, and geography), and Writing Assignments. They are page protected in a 3 inch binder that I go to as needed.

 

I don't do workbooks. I just print sheets as needed and leave them loose. To each his own and all that but creating workbooks sounds like a lot of work. :tongue_smilie:

 

FWIW, TOG is beta testing for i-pads right now. When that is complete they plan to start working on Android. I hope to read the Teacher Notes from there when it becomes available.