How do you describe "dictation" and "prepared dictation"?

[Tardis Girl]

I've been reading some of the writing threads and keep seeing these come up and feel like people use them in different ways. Obviously do what works for them, which is fine, but I'm interested to see some direct answers to what dictation or prepared dictation means to you and the value you see in it. How do you do it? what do you call it? how long is the passage?

 

For my part, I've always thought of "dication" as what (I think) is often referred to as "prepared dictation" -- specifically, the student:

-sees and studies the passage in advance;

-writes down any potentially questionable words of spelling (or I point out a few if I feel it will be necessary);

-pays special attention to punctation (which may include a brief comment from me about why something is the way it is...although this is quite infrequent)

-after a couple of minutes of studying/preparing the passage as noted above, I read the passage to the student -- AND THIS PART VARIES FOR ME: sometimes I read the whole passage, being careful that my voice is expressing the punctuation; sometimes I read in manageable phrases, assuming they will remember where/what much of the punctuation is, and then I will reread the whole thing again at the end with my voice expressing the punctuation, in case they want to make any changes.

 

I've actually not been a fan of writing something for copywork once or a few times, THEN also having it be a dictation passage. I guess because it feels boring and uninspiring to repeat it (unless used less frequently, say, with a goal of memorization). And when doing dictation with a 3rd-4th grader I would typically do one beautifully constructed sentence, possible two, for a dictation "passage."

 

So how do you do it? 

[SorrelZG]

Sometimes I do dictation as per WWE 2 which one day involves me simply reading the passage (which was actually his copy work the day before) a couple of times, noting the punctuation with appropriate pauses, having DS repeat it back and then watching him write it, helping him with spelling, etc. as he needs. The second dictation of the week is done the same but is taken from Hs own narration which he just dictated to me.

 

Studied/prepared dictation, like you are describing, is something I picked up from other sources and we do that now and then also. There are a variety of approaches, though. I have one spelling resource that uses one passage for copy work four days a week, studying some part of it each day, and then schedules the dictation of the passage on the fifth day. Another studies a passage and uses it as copy work in the morning and calls for dictation of the passage later in the day. I've used these at various times also. All of these are concerned with teaching spelling, however, where as WWE is focused on exercising the ability of the child to hold larger and larger thoughts in their head long enough to get them on paper.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I don't have a lot of experience, but I've always thought the purpose of the two is different. 

 

With studied dictation I thought it was more for spelling and sentence structure.

 

With non-studied dictation, I thought it was to learn to hold the thought in your head and to hear the punctuation properly. 

 

We are just starting with dictation.  I don't really know which side of the fence I fall on right now...but I'm leaning toward the SWB way of dictation as I'm not really into spelling using dictation (because it would not have worked for me ;)).

[dbmamaz]

My husband grew up in french-speaking canada, and they had unprepared dictation in high school.  I think its just not appropriate in early elementary, but when they are ready for more challenge, it will be appropriate. 

[Farrar]

I've gotten to where I don't think there's a right way to do it because we've tried it soooo many ways.  Other than for spelling work, though, we always do it prepared in some way.  Usually studied and discussed first, with tricky words written out on a small white board in front of them.  My boys are in fourth grade.  We usually do about three sentences - it's usually a full page in their comp books or a little less.  After studying, I aim to read the passage three times, but I don't have a hard and fast rule about it.  I pick passages that are interesting from ongoing read alouds.

 

But lately, I've been having the kids pick the passages themselves, write them as copywork and then teach them to me the way that I would have taught them.  And then I do the dictation and purposefully miss the bits they left out of the teaching - like, if they forgot to remind me about the spelling rule for a tricky word or how to punctuate the quotes or something, I'll purposefully flub it.  And they have to correct my dictation and find my errors.  That has worked well, so we've been alternately doing that.

[dbmamaz]

btw, hubby swears even in elementary school, the dictation was never prepared (could not read it before hand)

[Roadrunner]

btw, hubby swears even in elementary school, the dictation was never prepared (could not read it before hand)

That was my experience in elementary school as well.

I struggle with WWE directions a bit.

[Farrar]

The only time I ever had dictation in school, it was in French.  And it was always prepared to some extent - vocabulary reminders beforehand, that sort of thing.

 

Giving it to the kids without preparation feels to me like I'm trying to trick them because inevitably there's a word I know they don't know how to spell and it will just trip them up.  Maybe when they're older and their spelling and punctuation skills are more solid, but for right now, it just feels mean.  Of course, if one has a kid who would be okay with missing a couple of things out of the box just because they couldn't get it right, then maybe that would be different, but that sort of thing just destroys my kids.

 

The spelling dictation we do isn't prepared, but that's because the word choices and punctuation are carefully controlled and simplified.  I'm not really interested in doing that level of passages for writing dictation because they would get a lot less out of it and I wouldn't be able to easily tie it to the books we're reading.

[Kfamily]

Our dictation is studied or prepared dictation. Even when we begin this in French, they will be doing studied dictation. I did want to share that studied dictation (CM style) includes a gradual increase in the amount of material being studied. For example, my older daughter may be asked to study two pages from a book but will be given any paragraph from these two pages. She will not know which paragraph will be asked of her and so will need to study all of it.The CM student will begin with a study of a simple sentence and will be asked to write only one sentence for dictation. As each year passes, the compexity of the sentences, the amount of written dictation and the amount of material to be studied will increase. Also, a CM style dictation does not allow the teacher (except in specific instances) to repeat any words in a sentence once the dictation has begun. The student is expected to hold this in their head. This goes back to the habit of attention. This also goes back to the studied aspect of the dictation. The student must use their study time wisely. (I do have some alterations in the way we do studied dictation vs. CM studied dictation, but they are minor.)

 

[dbmamaz]

Well, grading was also very different for my husband in school.  First of all, you would pass your dictation to the next kid who would correct it while the teacher wrote it on the board.  

 

But also, 50% was a passing grade.  65% was a high enough level of mastery that you can skip the final.  He was made to skip a grade once because he had a 92% average, which was unheard of.  

 

So they expect you to get a lot wrong.  Its a different approach.  Here, most kids are expected to get everything correct.  

 

 

[ChrissySC]

I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.  I will simply add how and what we do for reference ...

 

Studied dictation is more of a Charlotte Mason method, and as such, you should browse through the dictation sections on the CM sites (a good Google will get you there).  Simply Spelling uses studied dictation, and it includes the how-tos as well.  I use this, and love it.  Not only are common word spellings kept visible, but new and more complex words are introduced.  In addition, the student is studying sentence structure as well.  I read the sentence(s) aloud, and my daughter then translates to paper with appropriate spelling and grammar.  She spends no more than 10 to 15 minutes 4 days a week with her passage.  Grading errors is the most difficult part.  I count the grammar and words.  From there I deduct a point for what is incorrect or missing.  I will be using this method through high school.  We started in the 5th grade.  You could start as early as the 3rd grade with Simply Spelling.

 

I prefer the studied dictation method for the OPs very reasons.  I am also able to omit quizzing on grammar and spelling word lists!  I consider this a win-win for everyone.

[Tardis Girl]

This has been so interesting reading how everyone does it a bit differently, and why. Thank you so much for sharing. While we have our own way of doing things, I have to be careful with myself to be sure to question and challenge myself somewhat regularly, to see if this is really the way I want to be doing things. 

 

I do fall into the CM "camp" in terms of some of what she said about trying to prevent a student from seeing the wrong spelling -- from getting that wrong "picture" of a word in his/her mind. As such, prepared dictation really suits us. Even with programs of grammar where a main activity is to find all the things wrong with the text -- I just don't really want to dwell on the "bad" examples, at least with elementary kids (my thoughts on that change as the student gets older and has the experience needed to more confidently do that). 

 

However, I do like some of the advantages of holding a longer passage in one's mind, as with SWB's dictation passages in WWE. And I actually have WWE but don't use it on a regular basis. But all the various comments have me thinking through some things... and that's a good thing. :)

[ChrissySC]

This has been so interesting reading how everyone does it a bit differently, and why. Thank you so much for sharing. While we have our own way of doing things, I have to be careful with myself to be sure to question and challenge myself somewhat regularly, to see if this is really the way I want to be doing things. 

 

I do fall into the CM "camp" in terms of some of what she said about trying to prevent a student from seeing the wrong spelling -- from getting that wrong "picture" of a word in his/her mind. As such, prepared dictation really suits us. Even with programs of grammar where a main activity is to find all the things wrong with the text -- I just don't really want to dwell on the "bad" examples, at least with elementary kids (my thoughts on that change as the student gets older and has the experience needed to more confidently do that). 

 

However, I do like some of the advantages of holding a longer passage in one's mind, as with SWB's dictation passages in WWE. And I actually have WWE but don't use it on a regular basis. But all the various comments have me thinking through some things... and that's a good thing. :)

 

Longer passages ... This is where I like Simply Spelling.  And, agree with your reasons as well.

[SorrelZG]

Just in case I wasn't clear, WWE dictation does not intend for the child to have to figure out how to spell words they don't know or else misspell them. The parent is supposed to be on hand to provide any help needed and correct errors as they happen so that the dictation does get written correctly (spelling, grammar).