Spelling for LD kid?

[jmarchman]

Hi all,

 

My son has just completed a lot of testing to pin down what is getting in his way of learning.  Yesterday, I took in all of my curricula and showed it to the psychologist (who specializes in learning) so that she could help me see which parts fit his specific needs and which didn't.

 

We are currently using All About Spelling (which I think is an awesome program), but it teaches in the exact opposite way of what he needs, according to the psychologist, and it was hard news for me.  So, I am on the search for what *will* fit him.  (This is not a slam on AAS, please don't post defending its merits.)

 

He can't understand phonemes/phonograms.  But he also has a hard time straight out memorizing anything.

 

We tried Sequential Spelling several years ago without success.

 

What other options are out there?

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

[kirstenhill]

I've read a lot of people mention Apples and Pears for the kid that needs something different than the phonogram/rules approach. I haven't used it personally, but here's a link. I am sure someone who has used it can chime in with more details. :-)

 

http://www.prometheantrust.org/usshop.htm

[CardinalAlt]

Is visualization a strength or weakness? We use a generic list of spelling words from k12reader and focus on her getting a mental picture of the word, strong enough that she can spell the word backwards. Patterns (phonograms, etc.) are made obvious with different colors for the letters, and the more challenging the word, the more visual cues we draw onto the word, like sketching mountain peaks into the curves of an 'm.'.

[Haiku]

We use Apples and Pears. It was the one thing that finally clicked for my son, who has auditory processing and speech-language delays.

[Chelli]

Here is my review of Apples and Pears.

 

My dd doesn't have any LDs, but A&P was the first thing that made sense and worked for her. 

 

[Farrar]

Knowing that sound to spelling programs such as AAS are usually what works for LD's that involve spelling issues honestly makes me a bit dubious about this advice.  As far as I know, there are two ways to approach spelling - from the perspective of the rules and sounds or by memorization.  It sounds like you're saying neither basic approach is right?

 

I guess maybe it will be about the bells and whistles and presentation of a program.  Like, since LoE has games, even though it's similar to AAS's method, maybe that would work better.  Or maybe a program that emphasizes memorization but with music or something?

 

My experience teaching middle schoolers with LD's also showed me that eventually it's not about spelling correctly anymore, it's about getting it right enough for spell check.

[OneStepAtATime]

Was this diagnosis from a neuro-psychologist?  What are his qualifications and experience?  Does he do evaluations primarily to determine deficits within a public school setting or does he do a full evaluation for strengths and weaknesses in all neuro-psych areas?  Or is he just a psychologist?  Like others, I am also confused by this diagnosis.  Not to say that the evaluator didn't know what they were talking about because they may know exactly what they are talking about...I just know that our first diagnosis was wrong and led us in the opposite direction from where we needed to go, and I am not the only parent that has experienced that situation.

 

Our first evaluation was done by a person who mainly looked at it through the lens of wanting to see what the kids needed for functioning in a school setting.  It was very shallow and was actually wrong....and did nothing to show areas of real strength that we had not realized was there (squandering valuable resources in our own kids because of ignorance). Our second evaluation,  which took all day with each child and was done privately through someone else when the 1st eval didn't seem to match what we were seeing was far more detailed, and actually led us down the right path, included recommendations for quite a few curriculum and systems to try, and we were given over 20 pages of helpful information on the kids's strengths and weaknesses.  It was a wonderful starting off point.  

 

As for AAR/AAS, these ARE good programs, but one size does not fit all.  For some kids, All About Spelling doesn't go back far enough.  Some kids need to go back even further in sound associations and need something like Barton Reading and Spelling, or start even further back with Lindamood Bell's LiPS program.  Both of these helped my son and Barton helped my daughter.  For others, none of those programs helps.  It really depends on all the specific issues of the child.  Without specifics, it will be difficult for anyone on this board to make useful suggestions.

 

 If you can post more specifics, and possibly cross post on the Learning Challenges board, you may get answers that are more useful to your particular situation.. There are a lot of wonderful ladies on the Learning Challenges board that have had to deal with a great many learning issues.  Their years of experience may help you find a better option....

 

I also strongly urge you to read up on different learning issues, if you haven't already.  You will be in a much stronger position to determine if the evaluator knows what they are doing (sadly, many don't), and come up with a better long-term plan for your child, as well as short term options, if you are educated in how the brain works, how we learn, and where specific disconnects can occur.  Just trying different curriculums without really knowing details may just waste time and money and cause a lot of frustration and heartache.  

 

You might consider reading The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  The book is based on years of scientific research that they have reviewed and studied in depth and it has a great many wonderful insights into how kids learn and where disconnects can be.  I found this book incredibly enlightening and I know others have as well.  The Eides actually have been diagnosing and assisting kids with learning issues for years and are very respected for their knowledge and experience.

 

Other books that might help, depending on what the child's issues are:

 

The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz

The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl

Smart but Scattered by Peg Dawson and Richard Guare

Building Resilience in Children and Teens (Giving Kids Roots and Wings) by Kenneth R. Ginsburg

Teaching Students with Dyslexia and Dysgraphia by Virginia W. Berninger and Beverly J. Wolf

 

There are others, but these are some that helped me.  Good luck!

 

[jmarchman]

  As far as I know, there are two ways to approach spelling - from the perspective of the rules and sounds or by memorization.  It sounds like you're saying neither basic approach is right?

 

 

 

Yes, this is what I think, too, with regards to the options of approaches to spelling, and yet that is what the testing is showing, that neither is right.  

 

With all due respect to others who replied (not farrarwilliams in particular), I trust the psychologist we went to.  She has a good reputation in town, she has been practicing for many years, decades actually, and I was very pleased with her method of testing.  She tested him for only 2 hours at a time over a series of 6 or 7 weeks, so as not to test a tired child.  We do not have her report in hand yet, but I have been speaking with her in the meantime about modifications.  So, it is difficult for me to clarify *today* what she means because I am still trying to wrap my head around it myself.  

 

And at some point, you have to trust someone and you have to make a leap of faith.  There's a lot of art mixed up with the science of learning.  I have been down *lots* of rabbit holes.  It all costs money.  Sometimes there's no way to know that you have gone down the wrong path unless you've gone down it.  Sometimes, it's nice and clear.  Right now, the test results ring true.

 

He has trouble with his memory, and he has trouble with phonemics/rules.  So, I am looking for a spelling program that is different.  He is stronger with regards to auditory.... I am wondering about the Phonetic Zoo.  

 

Any thoughts on the Phonetic Zoo?

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes, this is what I think, too, with regards to the options of approaches to spelling, and yet that is what the testing is showing, that neither is right.  

 

With all due respect to others who replied (not farrarwilliams in particular), I trust the psychologist we went to.  She has a good reputation in town, she has been practicing for many years, decades actually, and I was very pleased with her method of testing.  She tested him for only 2 hours at a time over a series of 6 or 7 weeks, so as not to test a tired child.  We do not have her report in hand yet, but I have been speaking with her in the meantime about modifications.  So, it is difficult for me to clarify *today* what she means because I am still trying to wrap my head around it myself.  

 

And at some point, you have to trust someone and you have to make a leap of faith.  There's a lot of art mixed up with the science of learning.  I have been down *lots* of rabbit holes.  It all costs money.  Sometimes there's no way to know that you have gone down the wrong path unless you've gone down it.  Sometimes, it's nice and clear.  Right now, the test results ring true.

 

He has trouble with his memory, and he has trouble with phonemics/rules.  So, I am looking for a spelling program that is different.  He is stronger with regards to auditory.... I am wondering about the Phonetic Zoo.  

 

Any thoughts on the Phonetic Zoo?

I agree.  Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith.  Since you had not posted any specifics, and many parents just starting this journey end up with bad diagnosis (like my kids) I had wanted to mention that not all evaluators out there actually knows what they are doing.  Since you seem to be in good hands, hopefully she can give you some answers that really help.  I wish I knew more about Phonetic Zoo.  Hopefully, someone will.  Good luck!

[scrapbabe]

I haven't used Phonetic Zoo but I thought it was about memorizing rules. But I could be wrong. I thought they memorized rules through little jingles or chants. But again I haven't used it.

[Farrar]

But if neither approach is really great, then jingles and chants might be the hook you need.  I don't know PZ either though.  Apples and Pears was mentioned a lot, but it's also very phoneme based as I understand it.

 

How about something like Spelling Plus?  It's the most common words and it's based more on memorization - though the words are organized by phoneme, the biggest thrust of the program is a memorization method you're supposed to use involving spelling aloud, closing your eyes and spelling again, etc.  It's a little routine kids are supposed to learn and use for all the words.

[lillybell]

I have daughters with learning disabilities. I have a daughter who is awesome in spelling and needs no help but I have another daughter who has struggled greatly through spelling. We have tried Spelling Power, AAS, and Sequential Spelling all to no avail. She is currently using Phonetic Zoo and although, I am not saying it is the answer, I have seen improvements and she has gained some confidence in her spelling. I will describe the program to the best of my knowledge. It comes with a set of small cards called zoo cards. They contain the jingle that is used for the lesson and pictures of some of the words for the lesson. You also get a large set of cards for you to go over with them. The large set also has the words being tested in case you want to give them the test. You also get a set of Personal spelling cards. These are cards with blank lines on them so you can gather words that trouble your child. Every 5th lesson, you give them a test based on the personal spelling cards. I think the reason it has worked for my daughter is because we went ahead and made the zoo board. This is board you put together for them where they add the small zoo cards to as they master a lesson. So they see their progress and success in the program. The way the program is administered is that on the first day, you go over the jingle with them and give them some examples of words that go with the jingle being learned. Then you use the audio cd's to give them the test. The cd will say the word aloud to them and use it in a sentence for them. They will take the 15 word test this way then they listen to the corrections and write them down next to their test answer. After they have written the corrections, they compare and see where they missed problems. The take the same test the next day again until they score a 100% twice in a row. Once they master a set of words, you give them their new zoo card to place on their board and again go over the next jingle with them and the process repeats. I didn't think this would work but was desperate and so far has been a pretty good program. The other day my daughter asked me if I knew of any other words that followed the chant " When 2 vowels go walking, the first one often does the talking. Either shouting out its name as in goat, leaf, and pain or making its sound as in leather." She told me how she has been thinking of so many. She had thought of oak, float, gain, plain, leopard and a bunch of others. Now this was outside of our school time because we were sitting eating at a restaurant so it made me happy to see that she was putting effort and thought into her learning. You can check the sample on the iew site. If you do buy a set make sure it comes with the Spelling and the Brain CD because that one has lesson tips and instructions on setting up the board.