How does Beast Academy compare to Singapore?

[Dahliarw]

Ds is working on the end of Singapore 2B right now (he's in 3rd grade).  He's not a huge fan of math.  I'm thinking the "comic" style of beast academy would be right up his alley.  I'm wondering how it compares to singapore standards edition?  If I switched to beast academy after he finishes 2B will what he learn line up with what he'd learn in singaprore 3?  My main concern is that the upper levels of BA may not be out in time, so we'd have to switch back.  I also have a 1st grader just flying through Singapore.  He'll probably catch up with my older at some point in the next year or two.  Singapore works really well for him, so having the older ds on BA would make it so he doesn't realize when younger brother catches up with him skill wise too, if that make sense.

[mom2bee]

Well, Beast Academy is meant to satisfy hardworking, diligent, interested and math-curious students. I don't know that I'd recommend it for a child who isn't interested in math too tough. If Singapore PM is working for him, why would you switch? Why not switch to something that would play more to his strengths and abilities in math?

 

BA is meant to be challenging, but is delivered in an engaging style. My understanding is that it is, on a whole, 'harder' than most other elementary math programs because its written to the math student that is interested, diligent and persevering enough to succeed with those materials and the parent who is diligent and motivated enough to stick with it. The core philosophy behind BA is just...different. (I hesitate to say that BA is for the math-gifted student, though I think that could be a fair statement also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

If you want to switch from Singapore PM, I have to ask you why you are switching? What isn't working? What could be better, what is good but not great, what does your son want out of math at this point? Does he want something that he can do solo, or would more interaction be better for him? Those are the types of questions you (and to a lesser extent he) need to answer before you can determine which math would suit him and how.

[sunnyday]

I just started BA with my accelerated first grader. It's very conceptual, and I think the student needs a certain amount of motivation to stick with it, so it's usually not recommended for a child who isn't "mathy". My son gets very frustrated over the problems, but he pushes through and gets very pleased when he succeeds in mastering a concept. Can you get the free samples from the website and see what you and your DS think of it? You can also compare the scope and sequence there -- I think BA covers fewer topics with more depth than any other program, but it's meant to be Common Core aligned, which means you should theoretically be able to switch back and forth from year to year with other aligned programs/curricula (and I think SM is mostly aligned already?)

[Alte Veste Academy]

In my experience (third child now supplementing Singapore with Beast Academy), a child's success with BA has less to do with being gifted in math and much more to do with the child's personality and motivation. Two of my kids are natural puzzle-solvers. They enjoy the eureka moment that comes after a struggle, and they enjoy the struggle in a "nothing worth doing is easy" kind of way. These two kids did/do the program pretty much independently, with the occasional high five from mom. :tongue_smilie: The other child does not have this personality and becomes (sometimes extremely) frustrated with BA, sometimes to the point that we put it away for a while. This child prefers to be told how something works, while the other two actually resent that. However, this child is competitive, so determined to get through it. We go buddy math, and I am modeling enjoyment of the puzzle factor (which is ironic, because I was just like this child myself, LOL...luckily I am up to speed with math at this level). I do not see this child continuing onto AoPS, but I could be wrong. Time will tell.

 

Anyway, I think transferring to BA3A from SM2B is fine if the child is one who enjoys and rises to a challenge. If less so but the format is attractive, I would stick with SM and supplement with BA, doing the program buddy math style. If your child does not enjoy math, BA could cure that. One of my kids was turned off by the spoon-feeding of other programs and frequently said he hated math. Turns out he just disliked being told what to think instead of being set free to think. Although I have not compared scope and sequence, I would not worry about missing material because of the way lower math is folded into higher math.

[Dahliarw]

Thank you.  My oldest is actually quite good at math.  He thinks like his father, who is very much into puzzle type things.  He just lacks motivation.  He hates me teaching him, and gets frustrated when I can't explain something concisely.  I was thinking that the style of BA (where he could, in theory, read the guide/comic part) might appeal to him do to being able to try to do most of it himself.  

 

I think that if he applied himself he would be quite capable of "puzzling out" things himself.  When I had him evaluated last year to meet our state's homeschool requirements, the evaluator told me that she would give him a math problem and he'd say he didn't know how to do it.  So then she'd give him a tiny hint (like start here) and he could do it, even though some of it was beyond what I had taught him.  I think sometimes the "big picture" overwhelms him, and it's probably just something he has to learn to do (break things down into smaller steps).

[CrunchyGirl]

I wouldn't put him in BA unless he really likes math. BA is meant to be very challenging as preparation for 6th graders to enter AOPS junior high and high school math courses. The comic book style is great but it comes with some very rigorous workbooks. We use BA specifically to try to challenge LegoMan enough to slow him down (nothing else is working). The other thing to consider is that only up through 4A has been released and they are running 20 months currently for a 4-book complete grade level. That's the main reason we still use SM (which we really like)--we will run out of BA at some point. In terms of scope and sequence they really don't line up. So some concepts he'll see for the first time in SM and some for the first time in BA. Since the approaches are so different this works well for us.

[Julie of KY]

I think it is fine to start Beast after SM 2b. If he hates to be challenged, then Beast will probably not be a good fit. Otherwise, I'd give it a try - I think it is more conceptual and more challenging than SM, but many kids enjoy the challenge of solving the puzzles, etc. in Beast Academy.

[crazyforlatin]

I would even be inclined to use BA with a kid who detests math. There's really not much out there that can bring some zest into math time with elementary kids, unless you count living books. BA is preparation for AoPS - for those with both books, you can see mini-versions of problems in BA that appear as harder ones in AoPS. I guess I would do everything possible to have a kid think positively of math. We are using AoPS, but it can be hard and can be frustrating, but in the end, the result of seeing a wow moment is gratifying. If a child really prefers the direct approach, however, I still think BA can be incorporated using buddy math, like the way Alte describes. I'm a nerd but I look forward to buddy math time. It's like a math circle of two.

 

I would not drop SM.

[kitten18]

Hope my quoting works, I'm on my phone.

 

 

I definitely think you should at least try BA because it's awesome. :)

 

 

 

He hates me teaching him, and gets frustrated when I can't explain something concisely. I was thinking that the style of BA (where he could, in theory, read the guide/comic part) might appeal to him do to being able to try to do most of it himself.

 

).

About this quoted part, have you looked at Math Mammoth? Concise instructions written to the student. I'm sure there is quite a few people here who use MM and BA together.

[redsquirrel]

Well, I have a third grader who "HATES MATH" (he reminds me on a regular basis in that tone of voice)

 

But, he sees BA as a reward for getting through SM. BA is challenging for him, but not onerous. He enjoys that challenge and asks for more. But, put a page of SM in front of him (and I do every day) and he whines and pouts and bargains and tries to get out of it. He will swear I have never taught him how to add 9+7, never ever ever! He's never seen questions like 4x3 in his whole life, and what kind of mother am I to ask her child do accomplish such a feat.  Then, after the requisite gnashing of teeth and rending of garments, he does it all with no problem and asks if he can do BA.  At this point I think he is just trolling me

[Dahliarw]

redsquirrel - yes, that sounds very familiar!

 

So is BA not enough in and of itself?  It seems that everyone combines it with other math...

[redsquirrel]

redsquirrel - yes, that sounds very familiar!

 

So is BA not enough in and of itself?  It seems that everyone combines it with other math...

 

BA starts in 3rd grade and, so far, only goes through part of fourth grade. I am more comfortable working with SM from K-6 as our main math program. It is complete and I know where we have been and where we are going with it. I personally see nothing to gain with stopping SM for year 3 and possible part of fourth only to have to jump back in when we run out of BA. I feel very strongly that if a kid is doing well with a math program that you should stick with it. I like to supplement if only to let my kid try out different approaches, but if we only have time in a day for one math then it is going to be SM.

 

I am not certain that BA was conceived as a total elementary math program. It could be, I just don't know. What I have seen so far, year 3, looks more like a supplementary program for bright kids. But, I could be way off base with that.

 

And before I used any grammar school math program, even one that runs from 1-6, I would want it to have been in use for a few years in full before I used it. I would want to hear from families who used it from the beginning to end.

 

[mom2boys030507]

My middle son uses BA and supplements with Singapore IP and LOF. I would switch completely to BA but the books are coming out to slow for him. DS loves BA but also understands that he is going to run out of books soon. I am slowly finding the balance between the programs for this boy. Our balance seems to be 1 topic in Beast then 2 topics in Singapore. Usually we do not do all the practice but we do all the word problems and the challenge.

[CrunchyGirl]

So is BA not enough in and of itself?  It seems that everyone combines it with other math...

I would use it as our primary math but their 20-month per grade level release system simply won't work for us. So I need a core program I won't run out of and SM wins for that.

[Dahliarw]

I would use it as our primary math but their 20-month per grade level release system simply won't work for us. So I need a core program I won't run out of and SM wins for that.

 

Yeah, that is my main concern too.  But it looks like they plan to have the rest of 4 out by the end of this school year.  So if 5 comes out along those same lines, it might be out in time for us...

[sunnyday]

I am not certain that BA was conceived as a total elementary math program. It could be, I just don't know. What I have seen so far, year 3, looks more like a supplementary program for bright kids. But, I could be way off base with that.

 

They state in a bunch of places that it's intended to be a rigorous and complete curriculum. Their idea seems to be that they can touch on fewer topics but do it more thoroughly.

 

Anyway, the reason I use it as a supplement is because my son has actually not completed first grade Singapore math. ;) He's capable of the work in Beast and is getting SO good at persisting with it, but I need to make sure his math through second grade is solid too.

[Alte Veste Academy]

The last I heard they went from thinking they could release 1/4 of a grade level every 3 months to every 4 months, meaning it should be 16 months per total grade. When did they update to say 20 months?

 

I think BA is probably enough providing it is a perfect fit for a child (one who enjoys puzzling over concepts and does not require much repetition). It was not out early enough for my child it would have been absolutely perfect for and, personally, I won't trust estimated release schedules, especially when SM is such a great tried-and-true program (that I've got down pat now :tongue_smilie:).

[sunnyday]

The last I heard they went from thinking they could release 1/4 of a grade level every 3 months to every 4 months, meaning it should be 16 months per total grade. When did they update to say 20 months?

 

On Facebook back in May, the authors have stated, "2nd grade is last on our list (after 4th and 5th grade are completed). We project 5 months per level (4A, 4B, etc.) with 4A being released this summer.

 

That leaves 4B-D, then 5A-D before we start releasing 2nd grade books. 7 levels times 5 months is 35 months... so about 3 years. Adding the 5 months it takes to produce 2A puts the first second grade book release around the end of 2016. Yikes, that feels like a long time! "

 

Sure enough, all releases have come at 5-6 month intervals so far, the last one was in mid-August and the next one is tentatively projected for late December.

[Dahliarw]

Thanks everyone.  I printed the sample pages for BA 3A and I'm going to have older ds try them this week to see what he thinks.  If he likes it, I'll probably lay down the scope and sequence between it and SM 3a/3b and figure out how to moosh them together (probably throwing in the SM topics that Singapore doesn't cover or something like that).  

 

I think overall BA may be a worthwhile purchase even if I don't use it exclusively with my older ds.  I can see it being a good supplement for my younger child who is flying through math like crazy, for when I want to slow him down a bit.  He's almost done with Singapore 1A and we've been using it for less than 2 months!  I basically gave him the workbook and said when you have a question let me know.  Then I teach the lessons he needs.  He already has all his basic addition facts memorized and can add 4 digit numbers in his head!

[Targhee]

The comic book style did entice my son, who is very math capable but not really a math lover.  He is doing well with it - the elements that make it a good choice for him are the comic book style (humor, color, etc.), his ability to work somewhat independently in it (doesn't have to wait for someone who is too slow in explaining, feels a bit grown up), and that he knows it is hard so if he doesn't get them all right the first time it is OK.  

 

You can easily move into 3A after completing SM 2B.

 

 

I just solicited my 8 yo's opinion and he said: "It's good because it's a comic book. And, the problems - they're challenging.  You are supposed to get some wrong. That's good because it you can get them all right then you don't need the book."

 

 

[Dahliarw]

So for those of you who have BA, I printed out the samples from the website for 3A for ds to try (so I don't have the solutions).  We can't figure out the drawing shapes with the dots (first four problems - 39-42).  We got the first one, but the rest?  Can someone explain?  It's driving us nuts!

 

http://ba-cdn.beastacademy.com/store/products/3A/samples/Practice%203A%20R&G%2015-16.pdf

[sunnyday]

So for those of you who have BA, I printed out the samples from the website for 3A for ds to try (so I don't have the solutions).  We can't figure out the drawing shapes with the dots (first four problems - 39-42).  We got the first one, but the rest?  Can someone explain?  It's driving us nuts!

 

http://ba-cdn.beastacademy.com/store/products/3A/samples/Practice%203A%20R&G%2015-16.pdf

 

Remember that you're thinking about things in new ways. :) The tip I gave my son: turn the paper!

[Dahliarw]

Remember that you're thinking about things in new ways. :) The tip I gave my son: turn the paper!

 

Thanks we did that and figured it out!  Though the rectangle actually goes through 5 points.  Dh who is totally mathy said it counts.  I got the rectangle that way, but the type A rulemaker in me figured it was wrong with 5 points?