Wiggly, frustrated kid - what to do? ADD? ??

[Lucy]

I have a dd5 who was adopted from an institution at 13 months.  She is a delight and joy to us.  We began school this year and she is bright and doing well.  My concern is her fiery temper and overall movement. 

 

dd is very impulsive.  She often acts without thinking.  She has always moved constantly - she cannot sit in your lap without turning around, repositioning, getting on and off, which usually ends with her bumping her head into yours and crying.  :)  She falls out of her chair regularly during dinner due to wiggles - so we have given her the choice to sit or stand - she always begins sitting and then decides to stand after a few minutes so she can shift her weight and wiggle and look under the table at will.  Her feet are in constant  motion.  In play, she is very active and gravitates towards running, climbing, wrestling, and sword play. 

 

As for her temper, she is sweet for most of the time, but is easily angered over nothing and will often speak in an "accusatory" voice.  If my dd older says she can't play and must do her reading, it's "you ALWAYS do that!" or "You NEVER play with me!"  Which it totally untrue - and she stomps off to sulk.  She gives responses like this when she doesn't get her way or doesn't do things perfectly (like miss a basket, or lose a game, or finds herself unable to do what the older kids do.)  "I'm not good at this" screamed in anger and then sulking. Her attitude can turn on a dime.  When we talk to her about it, she cries and says, "I want to be happy, but I just can't.  I want to say kind things to my siblings, but I'm so angry."  She is frustrated at her own behavior - how do I teach her how to control her anger better?

 

It gets worse as the day goes on, evenings are the worst of it.  It is beginning to affect the other kids as the accusations and negativity wear on them.  I'm beginning to wonder if she could be ADD or something, and if so, how should I parent her differently?  How should school look for her?  (so far, homeschool has been great - she is totally able to focus and have fun. Just reading is going slow.)  Are there any good books you would recommend for this child?  Where would I go to have her looked at - or is that even necessary?

 

Any advice would be helpful,

Rondi

[houseofkids&pets]

Could possibly be ADHD.  Another thing to consider is a sensory processing disorder.  It sounds like your dd demonstrates some of the characteristics.  Here is a link to more info and a checklist:

 

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com

 

In the left hand column, click on "Symptoms Checklist".

[Lucy]

Thank you for the suggestion.  I have a dd with SPD, but this seems very different.  I mean, she certainly has the wiggly, spinning, rolling, jumping thing down :) but not the rest.  But that is something I could ask the doc about.

[City Mouse]

What do you know about her history before you got her? What you describe could be ADHD, but it could many other things as well.

I would definitely mention your concers to her doctor.

[PeterPan]

To me the hard thing about that (just to read into your situation a moment) is that she's not genetically like either of you, meaning you haven't felt that intensity yourselves.  There's a pretty broad range of what can be labeled adhd, and while it *could* end up going with a farther label at some point, that might be all it is.  Definitely the EF delays and impulsivity issues could cause that.  My boy has (and I may live to rue this obviously) a streak of intensity to him that is astonishing.  He'll excuse his response saying we MAKE him angry or this or that, and I correct his thinking by reminding him that NOBODY makes him do ANYTHING.  

 

Now that he's approaching 5 we're getting into the realm where that lack of self-control is evident.  You sort of expect to see it and when you don't it gets really frustrating, even without you meaning to let it frustrate you.  I remember watching this episode of the Duggars where they had the kid doing a forced/timed sit session in a chair to work on self-control, and I didn't get why. Now I do.   :lol:  Not saying I'm going to do that, but wow what's inside is astonishing!  

 

You know one option you have is to call around, find the neuropsych you'd like to use, and just call and talk with them about it.  Basically every practitioner I've called or emailed has been really courteous and talked with me for a few minutes to sort out if they were the person I needed.  I just talked with an audiologist in fact, same deal.  So don't be afraid just to start calling around and talking with people about your situation and asking upfront questions about when they'd like to eval, etc. 

 

For my ds (scrunching face here), I sort of figured we'd go in as he approaches 7.  I'd like to know what I'm teaching, because guessing is awful, btdt.  Before 7, they're unlikely to diagnose much conclusively.  Sometimes they will, and we've got people here who've gotten the labels earlier.  It just sort of depends on the extremity of the situation and what's driving you and what you need done.  If it's extreme, get the evals now and don't wait.  Some psych out there will be willing to see the child at 3, 4, 5 and give you some help, yes.  I wouldn't be a martyr on this issue.  I'd err toward getting the evals or at least doing the calls to see what the psychs you can find are saying and what your options are.

 

In the meantime, sure make changes commensurate with some kind of label, pick your label.  You said she gets worse in the evening, so you may need more rest time, more sleep, or more structure to protect everyone.  Structure your lives to avoid problems.  If the problems happen from 7 pm to bedtime, then send kids to their room for reading time earlier.  If you have blow-ups after lunch, then institute quiet time alone.  That's structure, where you as the adult make her more successful.  She might not have the maturity right now to make herself successful, so you change things.  

 

Half birthdays and growth spurts are rough for some kids.  When they have a growth spurt, they suddenly have all these NEW ways of interacting, thinking, and doing stuff and we have to step up our game with parenting and structure to get back the peace.  

 

Btw, my dd sleeps 11-12 hours a night now and slept almost 13 hours a night at that age.  She might literally need more sleep.  

 

What to read?  We've had adhd book lists, so just search for the threads.  Hit that section in your library and read everything, even if the title of the book doesn't apply.  A lot of symptoms cross over lines of labels, so you should read broadly and not assume. 

 

[sbgrace]

I've got a child like that. He does have some underlying dx's that wouldn't apply to your daughter. It sounds like you're doing a great job dealing with the energy/movement/school/home balance. As far as emotional dysregulation (I think that's what you're describing) and general negative thinking/reacting, that's a work in progress here. I think my son's issues are a little different, too, so what helps him wouldn't necessarily fit her. It's probably going to be a slow road. I can't find the book now, and am not sure it will be helpful at her age, but Dawn Huebner has some books called What to do When your Temper Flares and What to Do When you Grumble Too Much (overcoming negativity). We work a lot on cognitive awareness in emotions, because that seems to be key here. We're doing some Executive Function work that my gut says might give us some progress in this area. But what we do might not fit her, and at 5 he just wasn't ready for any of it.

 

It does sound like she's tired/overwhelmed in the evening. I think environmental controls at that time might be something to look into (ie less demanding interactions, a warm bath, earlier bedtime, audio stories, whatever works to make that rough time easier for all of you).

 

I'm replying, though, to throw out there that a lot of kids like this respond best to positive reinforcement. And it's easy for kids like that to label themselves and act on those labels too. It sounds like she's good at doing that all on her own, and you likely have to fight her tendency in that area by reframing in a positive way yourself. 

 

My point is set up an idea in her mind of her being kind, generous, positive, etc. as best you can. Emphasize those characteristics...create situations where she can hardly help but be x...and really highlight. Downplay the things you don't want to see....give her coping ideas and praise her for using them. I wouldn't spend too much time going over what went wrong afterward if you can help it. It sounds like she's bringing it up (so sad, I know her saying she doesn't want to be sad/angry has to hurt). Still, even if she's bringing it up and saying she wants to change, I don't think it will help much. She's reacting in the moment. So doing that just feeds into the "this is me" negative cycle. At least that's how it works here.

 

I don't know if I'm explaining that well. If she lashes out, teach her the skill to go do x when she's feeling out of sorts or similar and help her do that. Frame it as a listening to our body/mind thing and treating ourselves nicely more than how it affects others maybe? She may not be at a point where she can sense it coming on herself yet. But she'll likely get more awareness. 

 

If she brings it up, point out how everyone makes mistakes, but remember nice she was to x yesterday or how helpful she was with mommy this morning. Pour all the great things you notice into her mind. Create situations where she is going to do those things just so you can point them out when she does them. If you see her pause when you can tell she's about to blow (do you get a warning...we didn't for a long time?), jump in and scoop her up/out of the situation and praise her for controlling her temper. Yes, she was taking a breath and you did the control. But that "success" is teaching her something and building more good in her than another failure. If she's sad that she yelled at someone/stuck on that, help her think of and carry out something nice to do for them. Think positive energy. It's not always possible (my son is in a bad space now and has been lashing out physically), but as much as possible you want her to see herself the way you hope she will someday be.

 

It's still going to be a struggle. It sounds like she's got some issues in these areas. But the struggle will likely be a more pleasant one for all of you.

 

I'm tired and got some bad news tonight. I don't feel like I'm explaining this well! Pour the energy on the good you see in that little girl you love. Hopefully she'll start to think of herself through your eyes.

[Lucy]

Thank you for all the responses!  We do praise her a lot - even her sisters do.  Today was  a much better day:  we put her down for a nap, and did some structured fun time before bed.  I just kissed her goodnight and told her how proud I am of her.  I am really soaking in your advice on organizing the day better - so true!  I need to do better with that.  I'm going to reread all your responses with my hubby tonight.  Thanks again!

[Heathermomster]

Did your DD ever suffer from chronic ear infections when she was younger? Did she crawl normally and reach her developmental milestones?

[Heathermomster]

If your child suffered chronic ear infections or spent her early life exclusively in a crib, the possibility of vestibular and retained primitive reflex issues exist.  If you haven't done this already, look for food allergies and remove the food dyes and see if that affects behavior.  For the excessive movement, maybe look at the book Smart Moves and consider incorporating the exercises.  An OT can evaluate for the issues I mentioned and provide exercises to assist. 

[myboyluvsdinos]

If you haven't done this already, look for food allergies and remove the food dyes and see if that affects behavior.

I agree with the above. While it won't work for many, it can do wonders for some kids. My daughter sounded a lot like yours from birth - age 11. She would get so frustrated so quickly, have tantrums, was always negative, fought with her siblings all the time, felt badly about herself and her behavior, was extremely fidgety, etc. Then we put her on a very strict diet (no gluten, dairy, eggs, food dye, etc.) and she truly is a new person. She has immune deficiency (low IgA levels), so regular food allergy blood tests were inaccurate. We removed these foods for 4 months and the results were astonishing. Then, we reintroduced, and saw the effects: hives with eggs, depression with gluten, severe constipation with dairy, etc., etc.

 

She is now 12 and is becoming a truly remarkable young lady. I'm amazed at the difference the food changes have made in her life. Since she sees and feels the difference, she is very motivated to stay on the diet. She goes to a private school, too, so this isn't always easy.

 

So not to say it will be the miracle cure for your daughter, and it's not easy, but definitely worth trying. :)

[Suze]

I'm going to chime in on the food possibility also.  My daughter sounds like yours...only much more extreme :(

 

We went dairy free and then gluten free several years ago and saw good results with my daughter's sensory issues, and then we started the Feingold diet 3 months ago (no food dye, preservatives and some foods that contain salicylates) and have had amazing results.   Her anger and frustration have virtually disappeared.  We need to be free of all, but if I was doing it again I would try Feingold first.

 

I feel like something of an evangelist, but it has truly made that big of a difference for us. 

[Lucy]

Diet... how interesting!  She struggles with constant constipation and we have her on a high fiber, high fruit, Miralax diet.  We don't eat many eggs (except in the occasional brownie or cookies) but she does eat cheese.  I'll look into Feingold right now!  :)

[Lucy]

So the Feingold diet... it's worth the 90 dollars?  I know I should probably try it, but that seems a bit steep! 

[Suze]

Rondi, it's honestly the best $90 I've ever spent. The value of the membership is that the association has researched all the food items they list so you know if "natural flavors" on the label (as an example) is something you can eat or not. The same is true with non- food items.

 

I still pinch myself that we have seen so much improvement. It had gotten where every night had some kind of meltdown and they were getting more intense. In the past month she has had two tough times and they were limited to no more than 30 minutes. She is dyslexic so school work is a pain, but it all gets finished now and she sometimes even enjoys it :)

 

We saw the most luck with constipation by removing gluten, but I still would start with Feingold if we hadn't already been GFCF. It's a big commitment - because you really have to do it 100% to see what sensitivities exist - but it has been worth all the extra effort to see my shiny happy girl emerge.

 

 

If you are in Facebook there is a FG group that's open to non members and you could read other's experiences and get a sense of what's worked for them.

 

Good luck!

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I recommend getting a full evaluation.