Aversion to handwriting - poor handwriting: school or discipline issue?

[Hoggirl]

My ds does NOT like to write things out in long-hand. And, when he does, his handwriting is pretty poor. I purposely had him learn to type fairly early on, so that for his writing/written reports editing would be easy. Everything is fine when he can type, but this is not possible for everything! He does NOT complain about writing out math. I also realize that for essays on those BIG standardized tests (SAT, ACT, etc.) he will have to write his answer out in long-hand (at least as things stand now). But I am sick and tired of the whining when he DOES have to write something out long-hand! I am having him do a copybook on Medieval History this year to improve the quality of the handwriting. He is not keen on it, but he doesn't complain too much about it since the amount of writing isn't that much. However, we have started doing CLE Reading this year which is in a workbook format. One of the reasons I chose it was because he does NOT like to discuss books/literature with me. It was something he could do fairly independently. Well, after about three lessons (where he had to write in the workbook) suddenly he says, "I would really rather discuss this with you than have to write answers in the workbook." Sigh. Well, if my end result was to get him talking, should I care? Should we now try to do some of it orally? Not all of it can be done this way, but some could be. Then, however, he has less to study from for the tests. He does a good job taking notes during his Chalkdust math lectures. I feel like I have cut and cut and cut the amount of HAND writing he is required to do, but he is never satisfied, which makes me think I need to handle this from a discipline approach. On the CLE, dh suggested having him do every other lesson in writing and doing the others orally.

 

Sorry to ramble so much. I am just frustrated with his lack of concern over the importance of neat handwriting. Yes, I know he is a boy! :tongue_smilie:

 

What would you do?

[abbeyej]

For *me*, I would consider it a discipline issue -- and an issue of needing more *practice* so that writing becomes easier. Allowing him to do less and less just means that he never has to develop any stamina, so every time he tries, it's like the first time all over again. How many sentences is he doing for copywork, and are you making him do it *daily*? Think of it like any sort of physical training -- doing it sporadically will result in sore muscles and minimal improvement, but working regularly (and enough to make it "work" -- granted a tough balance between asking enough and not too much) will bring not only improvement, but also make it *easier* over time.

 

If what you want out of reading is the discussion, then by all means feel free to let him do that orally. But it sounds to me like he needs *more* writing (and more consistency), not less, so find other ways to work it in. And yes, if he's arguing and making your life difficult about it, it's a discipline issue as well...

[Blue Hen]

What is his age?

 

Carole

[LisaKinVA]

Assuming you're working with someone who is at least 7 or 8 years old, what you are describing sounds more like a discipline issue, and yes -- it needs to be corrected. My oldest has these issues (but when he was younger, there was a lot more reason for it -- and I kept "making allowances).

 

Last year, that began to change, because I raised the expectations. There was much whining, there was much use of the "big pink eraser," but once my son realized I was going to stand firm in my resolution, he began to show dramatic improvement.

 

This year (4th grade), here is what he must handwrite:

 

Vocabulary work (workbook fill-in-the-blank, and 2 dictation sentences a week)

Spelling work (workbook, fill-in-the-blank, and 2 dictation sentences a week)

Penmanship work (workbook 1 page a day)

Grammar (work book, fill-in-the-blank, some diagramming, some short answer)

History... complete sentences to answer questions ...sometimes short writing assignments (about 4 paragraphs, 3 sentences per paragraph -- maybe one of those in a week).

Science... mostly work-sheet type of work, sometimes there is a short writing assignment (maybe once a month)

Math..,

 

Literature assignments may be typed -- there are some short answers that are handwritten; Composition, up until we get to rough draft, is written, then may be typed.

 

This is an increase over what he wrote last year, and he's doing pretty well thus far.

 

In 5th grade, he'll probably have some short essays that have to be written (1/2-full pagers...), and I expect we'll continue to increase the length of those short essays (usually from writing to some sort of a prompt). My goal is to get him to 2 page essays by high school age.

 

I'm looking forward to losing the penmanship/copy books... but with all of the typing he does, I'll probably keep using them for the remainder of elementary school.

[Mom2boys]

My ds11 really struggles with handwriting, and I discovered there was an underlying cause. He is left-handed but right eye dominant, which is causing his handwriting issues. You may want to check and see if your son has the same problem.

 

You can read more about mixed dominance at Dianne Craft's web site:

http://www.diannecraft.com/article-003.htm

[Hoggirl]

It is hard for me to see how it could be a muscular issue for him since he has played the piano for 7 years, but perhaps different muscles are used???? I think you are correct. He needs to do *more* not less.

 

Thanks for the wisdom and helping me "see" what has been going on.

[LaxMom]

that you should look into a fine motor or other cause before deciding it's a disciplinary issue. There is different muscle coordination in writing than other arm/hand/finger activities; I have very legible handwriting, but had to practice typing a great deal to learn to hit the keys properly, and coordinating my fingers on a piano keyboard is a whole different discussion. So, yes, there may be a processing disconnect or simply that, because it is difficult, he has been resistant and because he has written as little as possible, the muscle coordination memory is simply not there, as it is with those of us who have written in long hand for most of our lives.

 

Maybe approaching the exercise in the same way as piano warm-ups would be helpful? Yes, you are writing (playing) something, but it is the process and form that matter in the warm-up exercises. He is, after all, only 11, and may lack the maturity to come to the idea on his own that it is the process, rather than finishing, that is the point. Most of us are well into adulthood before we learn to enjoy the journey as much as the destination. ;)

[Blue Hen]

that you should look into a fine motor or other cause before deciding it's a disciplinary issue. There is different muscle coordination in writing than other arm/hand/finger activities; I have very legible handwriting, but had to practice typing a great deal to learn to hit the keys properly, and coordinating my fingers on a piano keyboard is a whole different discussion. So, yes, there may be a processing disconnect or simply that, because it is difficult, he has been resistant and because he has written as little as possible, the muscle coordination memory is simply not there, as it is with those of us who have written in long hand for most of our lives.

 

Maybe approaching the exercise in the same way as piano warm-ups would be helpful? Yes, you are writing (playing) something, but it is the process and form that matter in the warm-up exercises. He is, after all, only 11, and may lack the maturity to come to the idea on his own that it is the process, rather than finishing, that is the point. Most of us are well into adulthood before we learn to enjoy the journey as much as the destination. ;)

 

:iagree: I have also seen several boys, in addition to my own, that really had great difficulty writing for any length of time before the age of 13yo. Some are wonderful piano players too but it's different fine motor muscles. :iagree:

 

Changing the handwriting from cursive to Italic also helped my oldest be able to write more. Go figure. That and age.

[Hoggirl]

should I just not worry about it and see what happens when he turns 13?

TIA!

[Peela]

I'm in the camp that you should check out for any underlying issues, and even if it turns out all clear, dont be too hard on him.

My ds12 has always found writing a read struggle. Can your ds do beautiful writing when he wants to? Mine never could, even if he tried hard, so I never felt he wasn't trying. He genuinely found writing very difficult.

So, we have done a lot orally, and I haven't had him write as much as his sister. However, I never let him off either, he has always written every single school day, whether it's copywork, dictation, or a short writing assignment- nowadays,he will likely have two separate writing assignments a day- something for English, and something for another subject. Like you, my son does longer assignments on the computer.

 

I did have my son informally diagnosed with dyslexia just this year- although I think he has a mild case- either that or he has already learned to cope well. It made me glad I hadnt been too hard on him (according to my standards at least- according to his standards, I have been way too hard on him!). And then, I have had him in 6 months of educational kinesiology- Brain Gym. Well, 3 months in, he suddenly started writing longer writing assignments voluntarily. And a month later, his handwriting changed almost overnight from chicken scratch to beautiful. I still can hardly believe it when I see his writing these days- I keep putting stars all over it I am so happy, he has beautiful writing. He is a perfectionist, but he is proud of it at last.

 

So, hang in there, I say don't treat it as a discipline issue as such- accept that he finds writing more difficult than many other children, and encourage him. Have him write every day, but not too much. Have you ever heard SWB talk about boys and writing? She says if they are crying, believe them- their hand really does hurt! Something about many boys- those muscles really do get tired easily. I became impatient with my son way too many times even after he was crying over this issue- I have much more compassion nowadays and I strongly disagree it is mainly a discipline issue. However, those muscles only get stronger by practice and maturity, too. I think kids need to know their mum believes them and is on their side.

So, my son is 12 and he has turned the corner, but he still has a ways to go.

[Blue Hen]

I would not ignore the handwriting but balance patience and expectations. I would still require writing but with an eye to the quantity of writing. My 12yo last year wrote at most one page per day, and that's if I added all his writing stuff together. This coming year I'll see if I can boost it up to two pages per day.

 

Since you said the history can be done orally, I'd do it that way. Is it essential that the final writing draft be done by hand or can the pc be used? For instance, I let my boys do their revisions and final drafts on the pc, outlines and first draft are done by hand. Do insist on clear writing just less of it. Look for places where he can narrate to you for some writing assignments rather than do all the writing. Try a different handwriting approach such as Italic instead of cursive. I suggest this since I say my oldest's writing not only improve in clarity but in speed.

 

On the neatness issue, I'd make sure to have a handwriting program so that he can see what clear writing should look like --- and require that he do it slowly so that he can work on the skill.

 

Carole

[jamnkats]

My ds does NOT like to write things out in long-hand. And, when he does, his handwriting is pretty poor. I purposely had him learn to type fairly early on, so that for his writing/written reports editing would be easy. Everything is fine when he can type, but this is not possible for everything! He does NOT complain about writing out math. I also realize that for essays on those BIG standardized tests (SAT, ACT, etc.) he will have to write his answer out in long-hand (at least as things stand now). But I am sick and tired of the whining when he DOES have to write something out long-hand! I am having him do a copybook on Medieval History this year to improve the quality of the handwriting. He is not keen on it, but he doesn't complain too much about it since the amount of writing isn't that much. However, we have started doing CLE Reading this year which is in a workbook format. One of the reasons I chose it was because he does NOT like to discuss books/literature with me. It was something he could do fairly independently. Well, after about three lessons (where he had to write in the workbook) suddenly he says, "I would really rather discuss this with you than have to write answers in the workbook." Sigh. Well, if my end result was to get him talking, should I care? Should we now try to do some of it orally? Not all of it can be done this way, but some could be. Then, however, he has less to study from for the tests. He does a good job taking notes during his Chalkdust math lectures. I feel like I have cut and cut and cut the amount of HAND writing he is required to do, but he is never satisfied, which makes me think I need to handle this from a discipline approach. On the CLE, dh suggested having him do every other lesson in writing and doing the others orally.

 

Sorry to ramble so much. I am just frustrated with his lack of concern over the importance of neat handwriting. Yes, I know he is a boy! :tongue_smilie:

 

What would you do?

 

I would totally let it go. My 14yo and 12yo (not so much the 12yo, but he does whatever his brother does) really wanted to work on his handwriting recently. He was still printing "J" and "S" backwards - simply from lack of practice and did not know how to make any of the lower case letters. We started doing copywork of first one sentence, then a couple sentences and now no more than 3 sentences (we're about 2 weeks into copywork?) and his penmanship is AMAZINGLY improved. He is writing lower case and upper case and is now noticing punctuation all over the place. His brother is showing the same amazing changes and now they're both wanting to learn cursive so I've printed out some worksheets.

 

My 8yo and 6yo's (girls) are very much into tracing lately and have big thick cursive tracing books that they pull out and work in at their leisure.

 

I really don't think this is something you need to force.