Algebra in 7th if...

[LNC]

Averaged high A's in math through pre algebra. Review in summer shows algebra ready.

 

But! He scored 82% on Iowa in math and 65% overall. I have no idea what happened. He has always scored 97-99% on Cat every year previous. He said the test was super easy. He came off a weekend baseball tourney and had a cold. I had to take him to group testing so his sis could be tested on that date for NHS admission. I know he wasn't at his best but I also think he had a rough school year for various reasons. If I covered pre algebra another year it would be a repeat of what he made an a in last year. I want to make sure his study skills and basics are nailed down and not rush.

 

What would you do? I am asking here bc some of you made these decksions already! Am I overthinking the lower Iowa scores?

[jhschool]

Get a final exam for PreAlgebra from somewhere.

 

I am sure regular curricula like Abeka or any of those have final exams. (Abeka

usually has them at the end of the book. They sometimes have three different

difficulty final exams--I think the pages were yellow for final exams.)

 

Or hire a public/private school teacher (or a private tutor who has experience teaching schooled kids)

to give your child the final exam for PreAlgebra.

 

Or look on Rainbow Resources to see if they have a set of Tests with Answers for PreAlgebra.

 

The Iowa doesn't matter. What matters is how he scores on a final exam of PreAlgebra.

[LNC]

He took an algebra readiness exam from a teacher friend's supplies.

[Julie in MN]

I hesitate to put kids into algebra until 8th grade, turning 14. I just think it's a level of abstractness not natural to and not ideal for learning in the younger years.

 

And if he had a rough year and didn't test well, I'm seeing signals to add to that.

 

Is he solid on math facts? Does he know fractions inside and out, with common conversions memorized? Can he do complicated word problems? Can he do math problems framed in different ways than the one he was taught? Can he do a variety of problems at once?

 

Of course a test doesn't say a whole lot, but I'd look at what a rough year meant in terms of math, and some of these skills, and avoid algebra unless he's really all about math. Doing algebra early doesn't necessarily put kids ahead, and could be learned in less than ideal ways if he's not ready.

 

Just one humble opinion,

Julie

[LNC]

He is out of town now, but I remembered last night he was really high (type 1 diabetes) to test that day. His blood sugar started at 400 and was 200 by the end of the test. If I was locked in to group testing I never would test at those numbers. If he went to school, he would have a 501 plan to forbid it. He scored 75% on core battery with bad bg numbers. He did worse on social studies and science etc. the following day though. I am not sure that repeating is a good idea either. I will track down another algebra readiness test today.

 

His rough year was diabetes control due to growth spurt, many many long lasting bad viruses and strep with fevers, and some social issues with travel baseball. All these affected his motivation academically, but he still made a's in all subjects except Latin. Mostly, I am freaked out by how much his standardized test scores went down from previous years.

[creekland]

I would start with Alg 1 keeping it all in mind and see how he did with it. If it's not working, I'd change to a different pre-Alg - or even just different topics to strengthen any areas you feel are weak. If Alg 1 is working, I'd see how he tested at the end of the year and then either continue with Geometry or look for a more challenging - in depth - Alg 1 to continue deeper.

 

BTDT with my youngest. He ended up not being ready, but then did fine in Alg 1 in 8th. My older two did fine in Alg 1 in 7th...

[Candid]

I wouldn't worry about the standardized test results. Suppose on one math section he slipped his answers down or up by one row? That could throw off his score. And it was his first time group testing, also a new factor.

 

As for age, my oldest, not a math child, did some Algebra in sixth grade as part of the Singapore's NEM program (so he also did some pre-Algebra and Geometry).

[kiana]

I think you have to know your kid.

 

Some kids -- if you gave them the same material that they already got A's in -- will shut down intellectually. For others, it can be a real godsend. I like creekland's idea of starting Alg 1 and keeping track of how he does.

 

Some kids start algebra 1 in 7th and take two years to go through it. This may be an option -- remember, you're not tied to the academic year like the school is, and especially before high school it really doesn't matter if you end midyear.

 

Another option, if you feel you'd rather wait on algebra, might be the critical thinking company's middle school geometry course. Here's an earlier thread on the course -- http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/474232-critical-thinking-co-understanding-geometry/ -- but it's designed for bright kids who finished arithmetic early.

[Sunshine State Sue]

We used an easier Algebra 1 (MUS) in 7th and a more challenging Algebra 1 (Foerster) in 8th. With 20/20 hindsight, I would have added Patty Paper Geometry in 7th as well. It worked well for us. Hormones hit in 7th and ds was not at his mental best, fwiw.

[Lolly]

First, I wouldn't worry so much about one year's test scores. Second, since I am old-fashioned, I don't like algebra for 7th graders as a general rule. I would use something like Basic College Math for 7th and start algebra in eighth for a strong math student.

 

One possible reason for his lower score (though it sounds like you have figured out what it most likely was) could be that he had not covered what was on the test during this year. A 6th grade test is going to be basic math. Many kids who are above the level being tested think they do well because the questions are easy, but they aren't paying as much attention to what they are doing (because the questions are easy). They tend to speed through it and make mistakes, especially on the easiest questions. (See this a whole lot on ACT with kids who took calculus really early.)

[LNC]

I think we will use a couple more readiness tests, then go slowly with Chalkdust Algebra. I will make sure he is 93% or higher on tests before moving on.

 

He will be upset to know his Iowa scores. He thinks of himself as a math and science guy, and those brought his scores down. And reading comp! It is so wierd.

[Brigid in NC]

Averaged high A's in math through pre algebra. Review in summer shows algebra ready.

 

But! He scored 82% on Iowa in math and 65% overall. I have no idea what happened. He has always scored 97-99% on Cat every year previous. He said the test was super easy.

 

For students that are "ahead" of grade level, there is the chance that what they see on standardized tests is not what is fresh--they have not been working on some of the math concepts, and have been working on others that are not on the test. My suggestion is to look closely at the subscores to see where the percentages dipped. What we found in all standardized testing in middle school and high school, was there was a need to review and refresh the "easier" concepts. The fact that your ds found the test to be easy (and had scored well in the past) would be a clue to me that he was very familiar with the concepts, but was not necessarily noticing the "trick" questions. He knew the math, but was tripped up by the way the questions were asked.

 

I think you have gotten a lot of good advice from earlier posters. I would consider not backing up. The fact that your ds is ahead gives you breathing room to slow down in a future year when he might need more time to cover material that he finds difficult--so you have the option of covering pre-calc in two years rather than one, for example.

 

Our family has experienced the same bumps in the past. If your ds is a math/science guy, this one test does not mean that he's not. I would frame it that he is ahead of the test, and test prep next time will help him refresh the concepts that he's not been practicing or that he has not seen in a "gotcha" test framework. Good luck! :001_smile:

[LisaKinVA]

What Brigid said...my oldest three are all learning material that normally isn't seen on their standardized testing. Simple things just need to be reviewed. I just purchased some old edition text/test/quiz books for Abeka 6th & 7th, so they can do a quick daily review...we can do chapter reviews weekly leading up to the test and re-cover some concepts :D

[Teachin'Mine]

IMO the poor kid was tired and sick, and I wouldn't worry about that IOWA score at all. I know it's important for a student to be ready for algebra, but IMO it's equally detrimental to hold back a student who is ready to move on and needs the new challenge. For those who are "mathy" having to repeat a course they've already done, and done well, would be torture. Personally, I would move onto algebra with confidence, but I'd also have a plan B if you find he's not ready, and I would let him know that you'll switch to x program if he needs more foundation before returning to algebra. I would definitely not show your son concern about the scores if he'll feel badly about them. I'd emphasize that he was sick at the time and it's not a good reflection of his abilities this year. Lots of simple math errors in the early teens can be chalked up to their age too.

[LNC]

He is so distraught by his test score that I think I should order a CAT survey for a quick retest. I will use ITBS from now on, but he needs reaasurance that testing while tired, sick and high bg factored in to his low score.

 

I wouldn't have told him except he insisted on knowing bc his sister needed to find out for honor society. She did very well, but he has always had a higher percentile in the past. He even had a hard time sleeping and keeps calling himself a failure. Jeesh.

 

I don't want this one stupid test to destroy his self confidence and demotivate him.

[creekland]

He is so distraught by his test score that I think I should order a CAT survey for a quick retest. I will use ITBS from now on, but he needs reaasurance that testing while tired, sick and high bg factored in to his low score.

 

I wouldn't have told him except he insisted on knowing bc his sister needed to find out for honor society. She did very well, but he has always had a higher percentile in the past. He even had a hard time sleeping and keeps calling himself a failure. Jeesh.

 

I don't want this one stupid test to destroy his self confidence and demotivate him.

 

Experiencing some "failure" early on in life - then learning to overcome it - is a SUPER lesson and one many students miss. Use this opportunity to let him overcome it IMO. He needs to mentally learn that he can have an off day (or even a bad test for any reason) and press on. His emotions will run high - that's part of the age and not coming across such disappointment before - but his brain will learn to deal with it (let him) and he'll have that experience when something comes up again. It may take a bit of time the first time. It is incredibly tough to watch as a parent (BTDT) and even tougher to know when to say what and what not to say. Usually I try a combo of giving them space/time and forcing them back on the horse - each as it "feels" right. I do NOT try to shelter them from reality. There was even a great article from maybe a year ago talking about how trying to shelter kids from all the downs in life is really harmful for their development.

 

Many people who succeed (in life) will tell you the key to success is not never failing, it's learning you can get right back up and keep on. Everyone will have some sort of down day in their life (even if "down" to them would be "high" for someone else.)

 

:grouphug: to you (and him) as you deal with this, but he will be stronger and more prepped for life afterward IMO.

[Candid]

He is so distraught by his test score that I think I should order a CAT survey for a quick retest. I will use ITBS from now on, but he needs reaasurance that testing while tired, sick and high bg factored in to his low score.

 

I wouldn't have told him except he insisted on knowing bc his sister needed to find out for honor society. She did very well, but he has always had a higher percentile in the past. He even had a hard time sleeping and keeps calling himself a failure. Jeesh.

 

I don't want this one stupid test to destroy his self confidence and demotivate him.

 

The bold is a big concern to me. Everyone has failure and not just one day, I was sick failure, but ghastly I will never be able to do this failure.

 

If one standardized test can do this to him, your focus might should be not on retesting but on this reaction which I think for a teen or pre-teen is over the top.

 

Now obviously sometimes when we type things in a forum we over state things if you've done this, fine, move on.

 

If on the other hand he is still mopping about over this test score I would not retest using a different test. I would move on with encouragement.

[Teachin'Mine]

I agree with Creekland and Candid. And 82% is hardly a failure! As he's advanced in math, he'll likely be challenging himself. With challenge comes more opportunities to get grades you aren't thrilled with. It's okay to not like a grade, but it's what you do afterward that matters. If you let it stop you from moving forward, then that's a serious problem. If you use it as motivation to work harder, then it's hardly a bad thing at all. But his "score" of the test doesn't need improvement as he wasn't even feeling well, and really the scores don't count for anything unless it will be used for placement in a public or private school. IMO this really is a case of helping him to shake it off and move on. Your reaction to his score is important in helping him to do this.

[LNC]

Yes, over the top! We are encouraging him. I don't know why he is such an all or nothing kid...

[LNC]

Yes, over the top! We are encouraging him. I don't know why he is such an all or nothing kid...

[Julie in MN]

If one standardized test can do this to him, your focus might should be not on retesting but on this reaction which I think for a teen or pre-teen is over the top.

Candid,

I can't remember how old your kids are, but maybe you have really calm teens. Or maybe it's been a while for you, and you've forgotten.

 

I just want to say that it's not an unusual reaction at all. Especially for a teen, with all those hormones flying around. And it's not a matter of logic. Time may help. Prayer, if you're a praying family. Maybe sleep. But even if logical examination of his reaction helps his brain to understand, his heart may remain upset and need the encouragement of another test or another way of finding success.

 

Julie

[Candid]

Candid,

I can't remember how old your kids are, but maybe you have really calm teens. Or maybe it's been a while for you, and you've forgotten.

 

I just want to say that it's not an unusual reaction at all. Especially for a teen, with all those hormones flying around. And it's not a matter of logic. Time may help. Prayer, if you're a praying family. Maybe sleep. But even if logical examination of his reaction helps his brain to understand, his heart may remain upset and need the encouragement of another test or another way of finding success.

 

Julie

 

Middlin' teens.

 

I get what you are saying, and yes mine can on occasion do the super drama queen thing even though they are boys, but they don't hold onto it. I think the holding onto it part is what I see as out of the ordinary. Yes, first day or two, my life is ruined, but a week later, no.

 

I've thought about this concept: failure, and I might have to start my own thread on living with failure. My oldest has had a terrible track record with baseball, you name it we've experienced it. But he's never given up.

[Julie in MN]

Yes, first day or two, my life is ruined, but a week later, no.

But I don't think it's been a week. On 6/29, LNC said "he will be upset," meaning he didn't know yet?

 

Also, I think the length of time will depend on several things, including what happens after that. If the student is sick in bed with no other successes or happinesses to take away his focus, he might sink further into depression. If he has another successful test or another great feedback in another area of his life, the test worries may fade into the background.

 

Reactions can also vary from year to year in the same child. Even a child who seems very un-dramatic can suddenly have a drama year, or half year.

 

Julie

[LNC]

It hasn't been 24 hrs. yet. They were out of town when I got the scores, and only asked last night.

[Candid]

It hasn't been 24 hrs. yet. They were out of town when I got the scores, and only asked last night.

 

Then give him time and don't play into his over reaction, which is what it is.

 

Don't retest him. He needs to learn to roll with this punch. Give him some time, but be worried if he doesn't get over this.

 

In behavioral conditioning programs, they would suggest you ignore everything in this case. Don't be logical and answer his concerns more than, "This is fine." To spend a lot of time on them is to give them validity. Now, I know this is not your mother instinct, you will want to reassure, but I assume you've already done that. Just repeat, "It's not such a big deal." Feeding the insecure reaction just makes it bigger.