ITBS vs. Terra Nova results?

[SKL]

My kids took the Iowa Test of Basic Skills last spring (KG) and the Terra Nova test this spring (1st). Their scores changed a lot more than I would have expected. Is there any reason why the ITBS and Terra Nova might not be comparable (apples to apples)?

[Dmmetler]

I don't know on the ITBS, but I know that the K and 1st grade SAT-10 had a lot of sections where the ceiling was set such that a kid could get every single question correct, and still only be in the 75-80% or so. I believe that was the one where the total composite reading didn't have the possibility of a 95%+ score, which meant that no kid could qualify for GT testing under the district's rules.

 

The Terra Nova 2nd grade seemed to have a higher ceiling-the same raw % correct would be 95-99% as well. The SAT10 also seemed to take a lot less time. DD did the 1st grade SAT-10 through a homeschool group, and ended up spending several hours each day on the playground because it took so little time for her group to finish the assigned sections. In comparison, I proctored the 4th grade Terra Nova while she did the 2nd grade one, and all but one day, 4th grade actually finished before 2nd. The 2nd grade test was just plain a LONG test. If you're seeing a few lower scores on areas you know your girls are strong, it might simply be that the test did that section last on a day, and they were tired.

[SKL]

My kids came down with the a bad flu the week they had the testing, so I figured that could be a factor. I was just surprised that it was so much different. Miss E is reading on 4th grade level (at least) but scored only 82%ile on the test; last year it was 99%ile on ITBS. In math she scored 86%ile compared to 99%ile last year. Oddly the overall score 89%ile was higher than all of the individual scores. Miss A scored 24%ile in math compared to 50%ile last year. Her reading was also lower, but not as dramatic. She just had individual testing done and she was above average in both math and reading. I started wondering whether Terra Nova was more likely to be used in private schools or whatnot, thus skewing the percentiles. Could just have been a bad test day, or maybe too much emphasis on time/money which Singapore Math didn't cover yet. ... I wouldn't care, except that the gifted teacher said he looks at both 1st and 2nd grade test scores to decide eligibility for the gifted program that starts in 3rd grade. Bummer if Miss E bombed the test due to the flu.

[Ellie]

There will always be fluctuations from year to year, especially for such young children. There will be differences between results from different tests. It is probably better to stay with one standardized test.

 

Also, percentiles are based on a normed group, not on public vs private schools, not on all of the children nationally who take the test each year.

[SKL]

Would the normed group be significantly different for different tests?

[Ellie]

Would the normed group be significantly different for different tests?

 

 

Yes, because each group was made up of different children. And the tests are different.

[SKL]

Thanks. How can I find out more about this? I just would like to get a better idea of "whom" (what type of benchmark) my kids are being compared to.

[Kalmia]

Don't worry about it. The percentile results tell you more about how your child does compared to a group of children on that same test that same year. It does not track an individual child's progress. My daughter got one question wrong on one of the SAT-10 math subsection last year and it plummeted her score on that subsection down to 57%. It is no wonder teachers are so stressed by these tests every year! IMO it is not an accurate reflection of a child's progress at all. I wish I lived in a low-reporting state, because one of the main reasons we homeschool is to avoid these tests! But alas we are stuck in NY.

[Kalmia]

And don't forget that these tests are not made up by humanitarian not-for-profits who wish only the betterment of our children's education. They are created by huge corporations who also make loads of money on test-prep materials.

[Ellie]

Don't worry about it. The percentile results tell you more about how your child does compared to a group of children on that same test that same year. It does not track an individual child's progress.

 

:iagree:

 

 

My daughter got one question wrong on one of the SAT-10 math subsection last year and it plummeted her score on that subsection down to 57%. It is no wonder teachers are so stressed by these tests every year! IMO it is not an accurate reflection of a child's progress at all. I wish I lived in a low-reporting state, because one of the main reasons we homeschool is to avoid these tests! But alas we are stuck in NY.

 

 

On the up side, you don't have to submit those test scores unless the district pitches a fit, right? And dc only have to test above the 33rd percentile, right? And you only have to test every other year, beginning with 4th grade, right? So you're still good to go. :D

[Kalmia]

In terms of the gifted program, make sure you submit the individual test results you mentioned so those are taken into consideration.

[Kalmia]

Ellie: Technically our district wants either the test results or a sort of peer-reviewed evaluation every year. Testing the kids actually takes less of my time--but ah, to live 20 minutes south of here in glorious no-report NJ!!!! Since my district never actually looks at anything I send them and is completely out of compliance with the law for never acknowledging my IHIP or quarterly reports, I wasn't worried about the scores at all except in the sense of justice for the school children of the world. I just wanted to assure SKL that the percentile scoring of these tests has no almost no reflection on the child's actual knowledge or progress. In fact, I was so confused by the stupid scoring I contacted the the testing company. They told me she would have gotten a higher percentile score on that test (with the same 1 wrong) if she had taken it at the same time of year the public schools had taken it rather than a month later! Tell me how that is fair or accurate in any way? I suggest ignoring the percentile scores altogether and focusing on the number and type of question wrong if you want to get any useful information out of these tests.

 

Also, I have heard that the MAP test is more accurate than most.

[SKL]

In terms of the gifted program, make sure you submit the individual test results you mentioned so those are taken into consideration.

The individual testing was on my other daughter, who is having some problems in school. I wasn't planning to have my gifted daughter tested individually, but I guess I will if that's what it takes to get her a little challenge in school. I'll see what they say next year. ... I think they have a truly poor teacher this year. She may be fine for the "average" kid but does nothing for kids above, and very little for kids below the class expectations. If my kids truly declined in %ile from year to year, that would be why IMO. It will be interesting to see how the rest of their class did. This teacher also had the worst showing last year as far as standardized test scores; she taught 2nd grade then. Hmm.