E and I

[WildLotus]

I am using AAS 1 for my Oldest DD 8 (The Dew). Crazy question, what is the difference between e and i. I know the spelling by heart on most things, and I am an avid reader. I think my dialect is messing with it. I know e's belong at the end of words it’s just the middle like pin and pen, have no distinction to me. Pet and pit have very little distinction. Is there a distinction or a rule that I can help The Dew with or is it something you just memorize?

[TraceyS/FL]

There is a difference.... took my kids FOREVER in speech therapy to hear it and say it! :D

 

How about, e like elephant, and i like igloo.

 

Do you say those the same? There are different mouth positions for them too - maybe someone that has done more with LIPS has info on that, or YouTube!

[MerryAtHope]

By chance do you live in the South? In some regions, there's no difference between "pin" and "pen." There's actually a name for this difficulty--the pin/pen merger; check out this video that Marie Rippel made. You can use it to help you work with your kids on these short vowels. Merry :-)

[MeganW]

By chance do you live in the South? In some regions, there's no difference between "pin" and "pen."

 

I grew up in South Carolina. I can't hear a difference in most words either. Red vs rid is one that I do hear it in - can you hear that?

[AdventureMoms]

My tongue is higher in my mouth with I than with E. but I agree that when many southern people speak there isn't much distinction. Both sound somewhere in between.

[3monkeys]

Being South Carolinian myself, I know the difference but don't actually say it....if that makes sense.

Spelling becomes almost comical in my house because my ds still wants to spell phonetically and it really brings out our accent! I also notice he wants to spell almost every word that begins with 'en' as 'in' such as enlighten. I've almost corrected my accent by calling out spelling words...it forces me to speak in a way he will be successful spelling.

[Ellie]

Heck, my students born and raised in California had trouble hearing the difference between pen and pin, so it isn't only those from the South.

 

They sound way different to me, and I make it a point to pronounce them as clearly as I can. If ask someone for a pen, I don't want him to hand me a pin instead, KWIM? :-)

 

Spalding is especially good in teaching those different sounds, because it emphasizes the importance of clear speech. Sometimes we don't pronounce words correctly because we're just lazy, lol.

[PollyOR]

Phew! Big problem here too. I am realizing how many things I mispronounce. I just recently realized I say "dintest" and "magnit." She has trouble with words like "untell" and "pilgrum." The one that cracks me up is "visit." She pronounces it correctly but keeps writing "vishit." I finally had to point out the obvious. She is eleven and thought it was funny. sigh.

 

Combining the visual of the green word cards and insisting that she make each individual sound while she spells has helped tremendously this week. Some words are just going to take time.

[PollyOR]

I want to add that Leap Frog's Letter Factory DVD helps us remember the correct short vowel sounds for e and i. In the video short e is like an old man who is hard of hearing cupping his hand behind his ear and saying "eh?" The short i sound is demonstrated with "ick!" when a gooey substance is being poured over the head.

 

When dd needs to be prompted for short e I cup my hand behind my ear and say "eh?" And when the word needs a short i, I pretend to break an egg on her head and let it slide down over her head.

 

The other day I told her the "i" in pin looks like a sewing pin that would poke her. Hopefully that will help her distinguish between the two words pin and pen.

[kiwik]

If it is any comfort you are more phonetic than us. We pronounce fast as farst, dance as darnce etc. I have to go through and delete words from the lists in OPGTR.

[Kathryn]

Another South Carolinian here with no difference between pen and pin and many other e's and i's. I've been MUCH more conscious of how I speak since starting AAS with DS.

[xixstar]

This is my biggest worry over teaching phonics, I must say things wrong or hear them wrong. There was a really really long thread over some phonetically spelled words and I spent a week trying to hear or say a difference but the word examples in that thread sounded identical to me.

 

Now, pen and pin I do say differently, so *shrug*, it is very subtle difference and it's more I feel the difference when I say versus truly hear the difference.

[LaCEmom]

Another southern here who says pin & pen the same! I didn't *think* I had an accent, but as I'm reading this thread I've been trying to say them differently, and feel like I'm trying to force one. We just started with AAS, so I guess I'll be learning along with my DS.

[Ellie]

I became *much* more conscious of how I pronounced words in general (no problems with e and i, though) when a girl in my little school wrote "twenny" for "twenty," because that's what so many people say. o_0

[MerryAtHope]

Phew! Big problem here too. I am realizing how many things I mispronounce. I just recently realized I say "dintest" and "magnit." She has trouble with words like "untell" and "pilgrum." The one that cracks me up is "visit." She pronounces it correctly but keeps writing "vishit." I finally had to point out the obvious. She is eleven and thought it was funny. sigh.

 

Combining the visual of the green word cards and insisting that she make each individual sound while she spells has helped tremendously this week. Some words are just going to take time.

 

LOL, sometimes you just have to point out a mistake like that to make it stop!

 

For words like dentist, magnet, and pilgrim, there is an added difficulty--the schwa sound. Vowels in unaccented syllables tend to get muffled and we don't fully pronounce them. AAS has you pronounce these for spelling. I like to tell my kids, "I'm going to say this word how we normally say it, and then pronounce it for spelling. I want you to repeat the pronunciation for spelling and then spell it." I do this when I am teaching the words initially. Later, when we do the review cards, I only say it normally and ask them to give me the pronunciation. If they don't remember, I tell them and have them repeat. I don't move cards to mastered until they can easily give the pronunciation and the correct spelling.

 

Merry :-)

[Ellie]

For words like dentist, magnet, and pilgrim, there is an added difficulty--the schwa sound. Vowels in unaccented syllables tend to get muffled and we don't fully pronounce them.

 

 

See, I hear those vowels properly pronounced, not as schwas. I'm thinking it must be a combination of Spalding and choir training. :-)

[Farrar]

I was in college in Massachusetts before someone told me that "pen" and "pin" were supposed to be said differently. I didn't believe them at first. But they're especially close in the south and especially far apart in New England.

 

I've had to really draw the vowels out in order to get the kids to hear them, and sometimes to get myself to say them as well. In AAS, they say it's "spelling pronunciation" and I have done this for years for words in my head so it always made a lot of sense to me. I get the kids to say it several times, overprounouncing the vowel sound properly. It usually helps. "Dentest" was one that went on forever here though, I must say.

[WildLotus]

Thanks for all the reply's and the links. I was raised with a strong southern accent that didn't get brought to my attention until 8th grade, 'ant isn't a word said my English teacher. I am learning how to "over pronounce" some words to help dd overcome my dialect. Reading aloud gives us a chance to use proper English and I think that really helps us both. Hubs brought it first to my attention then starting AAS really made me realize it. Nobody's perfect, but at least I can see what is going on and work with it. Oh, I have tested a couple of my friends and they to do not have a distinction between pen and pin. I am living in Colorado now.