Anyone drop Logic of English?

[A home for their hearts]

We are about 7 lessons into Essentials and I'm considering dropping it with my ds12. He is just having a hard time understanding the rules. He was/is a struggling reader and I believe he is dyslexic. He does seem to have a good visual memory. I'm thinking of using AAS with him as I think they rules are explained better and it's more hands on. I may contine LOE with my dd13, however I'm just not loving it. She seems to be doing ok with it however I don't think we are far enough in to be seeing application in spelling in her writing. I was Beta testing Foundations with my ds8 who really struggles with reading. I had high hopes for it but we crashed and burned. It just didn't work for him.

 

So anyway, I was just curious to see if others had dropped LOE as well and if you have, why, and what are you using now? Thanks!

[Forgiven]

I've dropped it for now, but plan to start up again this summer. The reason I dropped it is because I bought it thinking I could go through it with all three of my kids at once. I bought it last spring at a Homeschool Convention without realizing that Foundations was being worked on. I also signed up for the Beta testing for Foundations, but dropped that very early on because it was too childish and immature for my Kindergartner, but then Essentials was a bit too advanced. Right now I use the flashcards from LoE and we play games and we review all the phonagrams through lesson 4 or 5 (can't remember which one we left off on) of Essentials. I do this with my Ker and we read from readers and I started having him do some of the ETC books, along with the McGuffey Primer and Bob books.

 

This summer, when I know he'll be ready to do Essentials, I plan to start where we left off with Essentials with all my kids and just kick some butt through the book. I don't plan on using it for grammar or handwriting, just for phonograms and spelling. I don't think my oldest needs a review at all, so I may have her "teach" it to her brothers. My middle child has a great foundation in phonograms, so it will be review to him, but a review that will help him. He may be able to help my eldest teach...hmm...

 

So, yeah, we've dropped it, but I plan (not that it will actually happen) to use it in the near future.

[Hunter]

The main reason I dropped it is that I bought the ebook version, and I don't do well without a hardcopy. There were other reasons, but I don't really remember. :confused1:

 

I went back to WRTR 4th and How to Tutor/Alpha-Phonics. WRTR is finished. Alpha-Phonics is better for cursive first and Don Potter's phonogram flashcards match up to the American Heritage Dictionary.

[BatmansWife]

Kinda sort of. Well, yes...I guess we did stop it...not sure if I'll go back to it (probably will since I had our school order the whole shebang!). Dd didn't complain too much about it....but I thought it was getting really hard....and we were only on part two of lesson four! I think the one that really got me was trying to learn the rules for a, ay, ai, and ea. OMG! Why can't it be more simple! I think it's too much too fast or something (but I'm not sure....it's been a few months since I pulled it out). Maybe it's because dd is only 9....but I know others are using it for even younger kids. :blink:

 

I don't hate it...but I certainly do not love it either.

[stm4him]

I was using it with my 8 and 11 year olds and it was taking a really long time to get through the lessons separately. Combining them usually worked but it still took a long time. I really wanted to simplify what we were doing. So then I bought YesPhonics and we have been learning the phonograms with that. I really wanted to race through solidifying the phonograms and then move on to spelling. After 3 months (with lots of little breaks b/c it was the end of my pregnancy with lots of doc appointments and such), we have learned almost all of them and have only 3 more days to go before we begin to test them all for mastery. Then we will move onto spelling, but I'm going to use Spelling Plus for this. I really want my kids to learn the first 26 phonograms and the names of the alphabet letters and be able to hear the sounds in words in preschool. Then in K I want them to learn the rest of the phonograms and be able to use them to spell the words in their readers using the dictation process used in LOE and other programs like it. Then they can practice reading those words before reading the reader. We use Bob Books to start with and then we will move to McGuffey Readers. We mark the words with a very simple system. Then in first grade they begin to learn the rules and make charts to go with the sounds and rules. I'm using the Essentials guide from CC for this.

 

The reason I want to use a system like this is that it makes it easy to review the phonograms with all my kids and just do a quick list or set of dictation sentences each day. I ended up feeling like there was too much overlap with the grammar program we were using and planning to use as they got older which made it confusing for them rather than helpful. It ended up that I preferred a simple progression for reading and spelling that made for quick, easy lessons. Things like lots of games and worksheets make the lessons drag on too long for me. I want a basic weekly process to go through that is the same every year. For phonogram practice I just want to do the flashcards, quiz the sounds, and maybe make a book of sounds to have images similar to Doodling Dragons.

 

PreK: 26 phonograms, Bob Books pre-reading and alphabet sets, manuscript letters via WRTR/YesPhonics directions and lined paper

 

K: phonograms 27-72 (2/week), Bob Books to McGuffey Eclectic Primer, cursive letters using PreScripts, manuscript copywork from readers

 

1st-3rd: phonogram review, spelling list or dictation by grade level using Spelling Plus and The Dictation Resource Book and Homophones Book, McGuffey Readers for oral reading, McCall books for comprehension, cursive copywork using PreScripts, IEW levels primary and A, spelling rules (1/week) and charts (2 phonogram/week, 1 spelling rule/week), basic grammar from Foundations and Essentials program and Dictation Resource Book

 

4th-6th: same but add advanced spelling rules and charts (1 extra per week), Essentials of the English Language for advanced grammar, IEW level B which has vocabulary

 

This allows for 30 minute grammar lessons for 1st-3rd and one for 4th-6th and quick individual lessons for reading, writing, and spelling (or phonics below 1st grade.)

 

The one thing I am coveting is using the LOE app but I'm afraid that the differences in her phonograms and the ones we are doing will be confusing......

 

 

[Plateau Mama]

Kinda sort of. Well, yes...I guess we did stop it...not sure if I'll go back to it (probably will since I had our school order the whole shebang!). Dd didn't complain too much about it....but I thought it was getting really hard....and we were only on part two of lesson four! I think the one that really got me was trying to learn the rules for a, ay, ai, and ea. OMG! Why can't it be more simple! I think it's too much too fast or something (but I'm not sure....it's been a few months since I pulled it out). Maybe it's because dd is only 9....but I know others are using it for even younger kids. :blink:

 

I don't hate it...but I certainly do not love it either.

 

Funny. I had a lightbulb moment with the ai, ay. I think LOE Is great for those of us with STEM brains. Seriously, LOE is the first time in my life that all these phonograms and rules make sense.

 

(Says the 40 yo woman with a Computer Science degree who didn't learn how to spell mountain until she was in her mid 30's because she couldn't ever remember if it was ai or ia and usually chose ia.)

[Cynful]

Well, I never started it but bought the first 10 lessons for my 15yo ds who is dyslexic. It moved way to fast. Introducing that many sounds and rules was too overwhelming. He also has memory issues and it's just too many rules. We are using Apples and Pears and it's working beautifully but don't ask me how. It's based on morphemes and I'm not sure how they've determined how it's presented but it's working so I'm not changing anything. :)

[dbmamaz]

I'm also a stem brain person, as is my 9 yo who couldnt spell at all before starting this. its really working well for him - he has a great memory. i mean, he still needs me to remind him of things, but the rules-based logic is the only thing that ever helped me imo

[MyLittleBears]

I dropped it for my younger two. My older guy did really well with it, awesome on spelling portion of testing,etc., and would not hesitate to use it again,but it did not give my moderately dyslexic ds what he needed. He knows his phonograms, and a lot of spelling rules but it did not transfer into his reading. I think he just needs explicit handwriting instruction built in to gain better use of this modality. This is something Spalding is big on. I missed this somehow in my quest for easier to use curricula. For what it's worth, I *love* the ease of use with LOE. I love how beautifully clear it is written, the games incorporated into it, the built in teacher training, etc, etc.

[A home for their hearts]

Thanks for all the replies. I can't believe I posted this and then forgot about it!

 

I went with Apple and Pears for my ds12. He doesn't love it but I think it's a better fit than LOE. I'm still trying to use LOE with my dd12 but I'm finding that the words on the spelling lists are too easier for me. I looked at the LOE website and only found spelling lists by phonogram and dolch word lists by level. I couldn't find any spelling lists that would correlate with the spelling lists in the workbooks. Any suggestions? I don't have time to make a list myself.

[kirstenhill]

The advanced/alternate lists for each Essentials lesson are on the LoE blog and also listed under "videos" on their site: http://www.logicofenglish.com/resources/videos/spelling-list-videos

 

Only the first few have videos, after that there is just a PDF to print.

 

For those that say essentials is moving too fast, I found that one lesson per week (or sometimes even taking two weeks on a particularly hard lesson) has been a good fit. The faster schedules do sound pretty nuts. I also decided I was okay with DD not mastering everything this year -- next year we will wrap back around to the first lesson with the advanced lists. We just did the spelling portion.

[Ariston]

I'm thinking of using AAS with him as I think they rules are explained better and it's more hands on.

 

 

Just wanted to mention that, FYI, AAS did not explain the rules well enough for my dyslexic son. I felt it kind of glossed over them and moved too quickly.

 

I haven't used LOE, although it was on my short list when I was searching for something to remediate my son's reading. But looking at the Scope and Sequence of LOE, after having worked with Barton for a few months now, I can tell it would not have been as effective for my son. Barton builds up a very strong foundation. The things in LOE lesson 2 and 3 do not even get addressed until Barton level 5 or 6. I am on Level 4 right now and it has done so much for my son's confidence and dare I say, even enjoyment of reading. I think its important that these programs go slow and steady. Dyslexics need things taught in a very orderly way, and I have to say I have a hard time finding the order in the LOE scope and sequence which is ironic given the name and purpose of the program.

[nansk]

The advanced/alternate lists for each Essentials lesson are on the LoE blog and also listed under "videos" on their site: http://www.logicofen...ing-list-videos

Only the first few have videos, after that there is just a PDF to print.

Thank you for this link!

[prairiegirl]

We started LOE last May with my 10 yr. old who has dyslexia. We started out like gangbusters. My dd made great improvement but then we hit a wall in Sept. and we have been there ever since. Dd just cannot deal with all of those phonograms. I just received Dianne Craft's reading program today. We will be starting this once I can get it figured out. From what I have read so far it sounds like this might (emphasis on the word 'might') work for dd. From my reading I am seeing a lot of what I usually call dd's idiosyncracies. Here's to hoping this will get us over the wall.