Searching for the the right math - talk to me about Beast Academy and Singapore vs Saxon and Abeka

[KellyMama]

OK, I know that these math programs are about as different from each other as chalk and cheese, but that's really my issue.

 

I have a little guy with an engineering brain who reads his Abeka 3 math lesson every day, declines additional help (most of the time - other than when we learned long division) and makes 100% on almost every test (unless he makes a simple calculation error).

 

I originally planned to move him on to Saxon 5/4 next year because his sisters have been doing Saxon and it's what the private school our kids used to attend uses for K - 12 math. Now I think he'll do "fine" with Saxon, but he's already saying this year "I don't like math" and last year it was his favorite subject. I can't decide if that's because he's having to "think" a little more (long division rocked his world a little because it took him a few weeks to master, rather than a few minutes). I'm concerned that he's going to be bored. to. tears. I'm not necessarily thinking that math needs to be the light of his life (it certainly isn't for my "non-mathy" oldest DD) but I really do think he's headed for a STEM career (whereas she wants to be an actress LOL). I just want him to be curious enough to keep pursuing it, because in the long run, I know he's going to need it!

 

So, questions . . .

 

Is Beast Academy a "full curriculum" and if so, coming from Abeka 3, where do we start? I know BA is supposed to be advanced and the level 4 books aren't out yet - would I start with 3 D and go from there as they release the new books?

 

Is Singapore rigorous enough to be used alone? Or do I need to supplement word problems and drills etc? (I really don't want to do this if possible) I've read all over their website - I'm guessing Standards edition is the one to use? Which books would I order. I plan to give him the placement test for 4a.

 

I know Abeka and Saxon are considered "boring" curriculum choices, but I think they do "work" in terms of producing good, consistent test scores for the kids that can tolerate their systematic (aka boring) approach. I'm nervous to jump ship from the tried and true, but I also don't want to make my little guy loathe math in 4th grade! My middle DD disliked Abeka 4 so much last year (so much division!!) but she is doing very well with Saxon this year.

 

Sometimes I feel like I just know of too many options! It's much more difficult to pick the "right one" with so many choices!!!!

[kiana]

I think that the BA 3rd grade would still have plenty of interest and work for him. The problems can be unexpectedly challenging.

 

The intended progression is 2-3-4-5-preAlgebra, so even if he were using it a year "behind" that would still put him doing a rigorous, honors pre-algebra in 7th grade. He would also be doing pre-algebra in 7th if he did Saxon (54-65-76-87). If he completes more than four books per year (each year, if I understand correctly, will have books A-D) he may be ready earlier.

[musicianmom]

Beast Academy is very advanced, I think. When dd hit a wall in Singapore 4A, we took a break and did BA 3A and 3B, and it was not too easy by any means. Now she's back in Singapore, and looking ahead to her next unit, it's a total review of a unit she did in BA. My only qualms about moving entirely to BA is that they seem to be slow releasing the volumes, so I'm keeping dd with Singapore.

[RootAnn]

I'm familiar with Abeka math 1-6 (except 4 -- which I'll get experience with starting soon, I hope). I think your son would *enjoy* (and be frustrated by -- since it is challenging) Beast Academy starting with 3A. (We have 3A.) I personally don't feel it is a "full curriculum," but I haven't used/seen enough of it to be an expert.

 

I don't know much about Singapore, so I can't help you there. (Three of my kids have used Singapore 1A & 1B student workbooks at some point or another as a supplement.)

 

Good luck!

[Alice]

 

Is Beast Academy a "full curriculum" and if so, coming from Abeka 3, where do we start? I know BA is supposed to be advanced and the level 4 books aren't out yet - would I start with 3 D and go from there as they release the new books?

 

Is Singapore rigorous enough to be used alone? Or do I need to supplement word problems and drills etc? (I really don't want to do this if possible) I've read all over their website - I'm guessing Standards edition is the one to use? Which books would I order. I plan to give him the placement test for 4a.

 

 

 

We use Singapore and BA.

 

Singapore is definitely rigorous enough to be used alone. I have a “mathy†9 year old who I also see going into engineering or something similar. He likes math and is good at it but he isn’t a kid who lives to do math. He gets bored easily and gets more unhappy and frustrated at being bored than at having it be too hard. Both Singapore and BA are good fits for him.

 

We use the Intensive Practice book as a workbook. That provides the right amount of practice and is quite challenging. Singapore has a lot of word problems so you don’t have to supplement beyond Singapore but you can use the IP books or the Challenging Word Problems books for extra word problems. Depending on the child, you may need more drill. The home instructor guides have mental math pages that you can use as drill. For us that is sufficient. I use Singapore with my younger son who is not as naturally mathy and I do add in some extra drill for him for math facts. There are a bunch of other threads right now about Singapore and which books to order. Most people use Standards (we use the US version because that’s what I started with and I just didn’t want to switch when it was working). You will need the textbook and the HIG at a mininum. And then either a workbook and/or the Intensive Practice book.

 

I think Beast Academy could be a full program, but it’s slow to be released and so far only has through third grade. It is very different from anything else and quite challenging. My son really enjoys it so he thinks of it as fun math. I started him in 3A last year even though he was technically beyond the topics. I have still found that it’s worth doing. It both provides a review of topics we’ve covered and provides new ways of looking at things. For example, we had covered multiplication a long time ago. But he recently did multiplication in BA. He had to review some basic facts and had many problems and puzzles about perfect squares that challenged him (but that were fun to do).

 

I haven’t used Saxon or Abeka so can’t compare to those.

[KellyMama]

We use Singapore and BA.

 

Singapore is definitely rigorous enough to be used alone. I have a “mathy†9 year old who I also see going into engineering or something similar. He likes math and is good at it but he isn’t a kid who lives to do math. He gets bored easily and gets more unhappy and frustrated at being bored than at having it be too hard. Both Singapore and BA are good fits for him.

 

 

This sounds *exactly* like my 9 year old! To a 't'!! Did you take the placement test for Singapore or have you always used it from day 1?

 

What does the workbook offer vs the IP? I've heard of some people using the IP a level behind as reinforcement or review and using the workbook concurrently. However, if I plan to use BA slightly behind, I don't want math overkill! Like you said, he doesn't live for math, he just wants it to be new and interesting! ;)

[Crimson Wife]

Singapore with workbook and IP plus BA would, I think be overkill. With a bright child, I'd be inclined to drop the grade-level workbook and just use SM text, IP, and BA.

 

I've looked over Saxon many, many times because our virtual charter's lending library has lots of copies. I even had Saxon 1 checked out from the lending library for a year and it just sat on my bookshelf. Every time I look over Saxon, I wind up rejecting it as a bad "fit" for my kids. It seems like a solid program but the total lack of visual appeal, excessive spiral format, and the need to copy over every single problem from the textbook onto notebook paper rather than working directly in a consumable worktext makes it a "no" for me.

[KellyMama]

Ok, thanks! A few more questions . . . does the IP provide practice problems for the work learned in the textbook? Is it at a more challenging level - ie the student completes the textbook problems and then moves on to the IP problems for further practice/challenge (vs using the workbook for additional reinforcement at the same level - not challenge, just repetition)?

 

Tests - Are there tests with Singapore?

 

Drills - I already have the Saxon 5/4 drill book - I wondered about doing these daily drills for additional skill. They take less than 5 minutes. Too much? Already covered in Singapore somehow?

[UrbanSue]

For a kid who gets concepts easily, you are going to find plenty of practice in the SM text books. Each chapter has many problems and the reviews are very extensive. The IP is published only for the US edition so the look and feel are slightly different but I'd do that rather than the Standards workbook (the Extra Practice book that goes along with the Standards is not harder--it's just more of the same). The Standards workbook is easier than the text book while the IP is more challenging and often will get a bright student thinking about a concept in a new way. Because of the slow publication schedule for BA, I'd jump into SM but only do the TB and IP. Start BA from 3A and use it as a supplement.

[UrbanSue]

I also find (and many will agree, especially at the level you are talking about) that the HIGs are really indispensable. They are the heart of what sets SM apart. They have mental math sections in the back of the book and we usually begin with one each day.

[Crimson Wife]

The first part of each chapter in IP provides practice at about the same level as the textbook. Then there is a word problems section, and finally a "take the challenge" section that are quite a bit harder than the textbook.

[KellyMama]

The first part of each chapter in IP provides practice at about the same level as the textbook. Then there is a word problems section, and finally a "take the challenge" section that are quite a bit harder than the textbook.

 

 

So if the IP is the US edition, do the scope and sequence/chapters match up (mostly) with the Standards edition? I like the idea of having mental math and also word problems!

[KellyMama]

Looking on the website, is the IP what they call "Extra Practice for Primary Math STD ED 4?"

 

I see they offer tests - is there a reason not to use them? We're used to testing with Abeka.

[kiana]

No, IP is intensive practice.

[UrbanSue]

Looking on the website, is the IP what they call "Extra Practice for Primary Math STD ED 4?"

 

I see they offer tests - is there a reason not to use them? We're used to testing with Abeka.

 

 

The Extra Practice matches exactly with Standards but it's not harder--it's just extra. You want "Intensive Practice" which is only published for the US Edition.

[Crimson Wife]

So if the IP is the US edition, do the scope and sequence/chapters match up (mostly) with the Standards edition? I like the idea of having mental math and also word problems!

 

The IP follows the U.S. ed. S&S so some of the chapters in the SE textbook won't have corresponding IP chapters (or they will be in a higher level of IP). However, there is so much repetition of topics from year to year that I don't personally worry about it. Particularly if your student will also be using BA, there will be sufficient practice.