Would you pursue additional testing?

[Momof3littles]

My son (3rd grade and coming up on 9yo in a few weeks) recently participated in standardized testing as required in my state. He had the PIAT administered by a qualified educator; I opted for that as he hasn't had much experience filling in bubbles and I think that would have stressed him out.

 

We have known he is an accelerated learner with some traits common in gifted children (tends to be anxious, is very much a perfectionist, etc.). I was in a gifted program as a child; DH is very bright but was never diagnosed. I participated in JH's CTY as a 7th grader, so am somewhat familiar with those options.

 

I have read pros and cons of testing. In our situation, I have been uncertain that testing would give us any additional info, as we can already customize DS1's education to his needs.

 

His testing results today were higher than I expected. He received grade equivalents of 12th grade (or ceilinged out) in reading recognition and spelling. His grade equivalent for reading comprehension was 10.6, and in Math, which I actually consider his strongest subject area, he ended up with a grade equivalent of 7.1. The evaluator felt he was limited by the fact he hasn't had algebra yet. I have no idea, as I haven't seen the PIAT (and if you are familiar with the test, is that accurate? I have no idea if he could have figured out the answers without having taken algebra). He is starting Singapore 5B and we'll probably try AoPS next year.

 

In my state, we have to test again in 5th and 8th grade. I had originally considered the CAT for ease, but I really liked our experience with the Peabody (not bubbling in, pretty relaxed format, took maybe 40 mins total). However, by 5th grade, I imagine he may ceiling out on a few more areas (or not. I don't know). Should I be looking for an alternative to the PIAT for 5th grade?

 

I really don't have anyone I can discuss this with in real life. I realize this was an achievement test and not an IQ test. I have no idea if he is actually gifted or strictly an accelerated learner. Perhaps this situation isn't uncommon with the PIAT. I am not sure we could really afford to take a lot of the CTY courses, but it might be nice to have that door open down the road.

 

As a parent to an accelerated learner would you pursue additional testing? I know he's the same kid whether we pursue further testing or not. I feel we are able to keep him challenged right now, but I am wondering if I need more info so I can mentally adjust whether our plan needs to adapt or change over the next few years.

 

How did you decide?

 

eta: I was very much a perfectionist as a child, which had its challenges. I had the most laid back parents ever about grades, etc. and they regularly talked me down from my academic stress. I am forever grateful! However, I also think they didn't always advocate as strongly or facilitate as much as I wish they would have. THeir unconditional love and support was far more valuable though, in all honesty. I do struggle dealing with teaching my own perfectionist; it is the absolute most difficult part of HSing for me. I just picked up this book but haven't read it yet. http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Intensity-Gifted-Students-Explosive/dp/1593634900

[regentrude]

I have had one IQ test in 3rd grade for my children, by request of the school, and it did not tell me anything I had not known from my observations. I have not tested my children since, and I see no need to. I can not imagine a test that could give me a better understanding of their strengths and weaknesses and potential than observing them as a parent and home educator in our daily life. I doubt a test can pinpoint the level of challenge they are able to handle and they need to thrive any better than I as a parent can.

I would certainly test if my children had behavioral issues, learning problems or any abnormalities that I would want diagnosed - but they are healthy, happy, strongly accelerated learners, so I see no need.

I know without a test that DD is an extreme perfectionist who gets anxious about standardized tests, needs outside validation and contacts, and enjoys working with other people and teaching. I know without a test that DS is a minimalist who likes to hide his abilities, who needs to be challenged and held accountable, and who is introverted and needs lots of personal space.

[Dana]

One thing I heard from a psychologist about testing is that you test if you have a question to answer.

 

You may or not be aware that some of the talent searches are starting in elementary school now.

Johns Hopkins CTY starts in 2nd grade. They take the SCAT until 6th or 7th when they move to ACT/SAT. They've also started with a spatial test in 5th/6th grade.

Northwestern NUMATS starts 3rd grade. They use Explore.

Duke TIP starts in 4th and uses Explore in 5th.

 

We did the SCAT and Explore to qualify for online courses from CTY and NUMATS. Due to Explore scores, we had an IQ test done to see if our son would qualify for Davidson's Young Scholars program. Without the Explore scores, we didn't have a reason to get an IQ test done. The testing we've had done has been to qualify for programs. I've gotten most information about what he knows and strengths and weaknesses from giving the ITBS at home and seeing specifically what he gets right and wrong. The out-of-level tests (particularly Explore last year) got me to say, yeah, that's at the gifted level & may have given me the validation I needed to make some changes.

 

So think about what questions you'd be getting answered by additional testing. Again, for us, the testing started simply for qualification purposes for online courses and then it led to some additional questions. Right now I'm curious if there was improvement from last year's Explore test, but we won't have results for a month or two (sigh). Good luck with your decisions.

[quark]

I don't know the PIAT and am no help there. As for IQ testing, we did it. It was very affordable at the local university's psychology department and I was lucky to hear about their appeal for test subjects just in time. It cost us only about $75 in total, including gas and parking.

 

They administered the WISC4. Son enjoyed the experience. Has it helped? Yes and no. I was already homeschooling but was second guessing myself ALL the time. If I had a different personality (e.g. like DH's always cool and confident decision-making abilities) I may not have done it. But being who I am, I found it to be one more valuable data point to make better decisions. It gave me the confidence to accelerate. We had just begun accelerating prior to the test and the results helped me feel much better about it. Perhaps if I had waited 2 more years, I wouldn't have needed to test him at all because now, I am much more confident that what we're doing is working.

 

The test was not 100% helpful because my son hit a lot of ceilings, and even after calculating the extended norms I don't think it's a number I can rely upon. But then again, no number can be 100% reliable. No test can be 100% reliable. It's all only a snapshot of how your kid felt and performed for a couple of hours on one particular day. So in that sense, don't expect an IQ test to answer all your questions.

 

Also, maybe an unpopular view, but the more I read about tests, especially the ones that peg your kid at certain grade levels, the more I am convinced that standards have become extremely dilute. Today, a test that tells me that my son is at 12+ grade level is only telling me that the average 12th grader is being incredibly unchallenged. I feel very jaded about such low expectations.

[Momof3littles]

I agree that the 12+ grade level is probably a very sad commentary what is expected in high school right now. My DS1 is a voracious reader and definitely reads above grade level, but I'm not sure the 12th grade grade equivalent means much, LOL. I am a realist in that respect and don't think that the grade equivalent given means that my child is a super star or anything.

[quark]

I mentioned that because I was told my son was reading at that level when he was 5 lol. Like you, I am a realist. Isn't it crazy? It angers me that they spend so much money in schools on administrative things when they could be helping high schoolers to read better instead.

 

Anyway, that paragraph wasn't of much use to you...I was just venting about some of the articles I've been reading.

 

I agree very strongly with Dana's post that if you have a very pressing question that you think only IQ testing will answer, then go for it. Only you know how much you need it. Trust your gut! And good luck!

[regentrude]

I agree about the reading level test being ridiculous: my DD hit the "12th grade level" in early elementary. Obviously, this can not mean that the student comprehends books appropriate for a 12th grader, because even a good 7 year old reader can not possibly have the experience to deal with the thematic material of 12th grade literature. So then what on Earth does it measure? Can't be anything remotely useful, other than "reads really well for his age". It is absurd to quantify this by a "grade level equivalent".

[Dana]

Also, maybe an unpopular view, but the more I read about tests, especially the ones that peg your kid at certain grade levels, the more I am convinced that standards have become extremely dilute. Today, a test that tells me that my son is at 12+ grade level is only telling me that the average 12th grader is being incredibly unchallenged. I feel very jaded about such low expectations.

 

 

Depending on the test, sometimes those grade levels are just how a 12th grader would have scored on that test - not that the child is working at the 12th grade level in that subject. I think the MAP may be different and actually let the student get to a level where you could say this child is working at 10th grade level in this subject etc.

 

Individualized tests are, of course, different, but that's my understanding of the grade levels on most standardized tests.

[kiwik]

Normed age and grade equivalents are for how well people of different ages did in that test. So the child did as well as an average 12th grader would do at that test. Like the previous poster said there are exceptions to this.

 

And I would test. It will give you extra information - is there an area of relative weakness or anything like that. Also second guessing yourself is exhausting.

[quark]

Also second guessing yourself is exhausting.

 

:iagree:

[FairProspects]

Also second guessing yourself is exhausting.

 

Yeah, but testing did nothing to relieve me of this! :lol:

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I would test, my son just took the ACT this morning via NUMATS. We chose to do it to see where he is, and where he isn't. We also chose to test to qualify for various extra programs/classes.

[Momof3littles]

Thanks for the input! THere is so much to think about. I really never thought I would need to pursue additional testing, but now I'm wondering if it might be wise to do some.

 

I participated in the CTY program as a middle schooler. I knew Duke TIP existed but checked the website last night, and it seems his PIAT-r scores would qualify him in math, verbal, etc. He was interested in the cryptography course, and then started looking around the site with me and thinks he may want to take the EXPLORE test, which kind of shocked me. He looked through some of the test questions, and that brought up the CTY program I did and taking the SATs in middle school, and he wanted to look through those types of test questions.

 

So we might do EXPLORE next year since it is offered nearby. I am still undecided on a need or desire for IQ testing. Your posts have given me a few things to consider.

 

edited to add: We live far from Duke, but have family very close to that area, so the camps might be an option down the road depending on what happens with testing and so forth I suppose. I am not sure if he'd be interested in that or not.

[Dmmetler]

I don't know if you could get in at this late date, but the EXPLORE is being given for talent search this coming Saturday-my DD is taking it for BESTS.

[Dana]

You can test even if you're not in the region with CTY and NUMATS.

We waited until there was a reason for the IQ test, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of what's available.

[Momof3littles]

I don't know if you could get in at this late date, but the EXPLORE is being given for talent search this coming Saturday-my DD is taking it for BESTS.

 

Is the earliest fourth grade, or is that just TIP, or do kids take it earlier? My son is currently a third grader, so I was thinking for TIP we would do it next year? This is new to me. I am somewhat familiar with CTY/JH, as I did that when I was in middle school, but everything else is new to me. I'm not even sure we want to go down this road or not, but I like the idea of some online courses being available to us. It seems like that's the case with TIP even if we don't do the testing though, correct?

[Dana]

If he's in third and you want to see if you can test this year, use NUMATS.

Duke only does the explore in 5th but you register in 4th.

cTY can be done any time...you just need to get to one of the Prometric testing centers.

 

I do believe that the duke programs are available just from participation. CTY and NUMATS both have minimum test score to access online classes.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

I participated in the CTY program as a middle schooler. I knew Duke TIP existed but checked the website last night, and it seems his PIAT-r scores would qualify him in math, verbal, etc. He was interested in the cryptography course, and then started looking around the site with me and thinks he may want to take the EXPLORE test, which kind of shocked me. He looked through some of the test questions, and that brought up the CTY program I did and taking the SATs in middle school, and he wanted to look through those types of test questions.

 

 

 

 

My son did the cryptology course and really enjoyed it. It was very interesting. We are looking at the King Arthur one next though he is older than the age range. He thinks it looks interesting as well.

[Momof3littles]

 

 

My son did the cryptology course and really enjoyed it. It was very interesting. We are looking at the King Arthur one next though he is older than the age range. He thinks it looks interesting as well.

I saw that it is online; was it a self-paced thing or do you have to be at the computer at a certain time/date? Is it every day for 10 weeks or just once a week? I looked through briefly but didn't see anything other than it runs for 10 weeks. I was checking this late last night though, so I might have missed it as I was getting drowsy ;)

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

It was a self paced course. So we worked though it faster than 10 weeks. I also purchased a couple cryptology books off Amazong for him to read while he did it.

[Momof3littles]

It was a self paced course. So we worked though it faster than 10 weeks. I also purchased a couple cryptology books off Amazong for him to read while he did it.

Thanks so much. That helps! Over the last few months I'm realizing I need to shake things up more in terms of curriculum for him. We mostly use Singapore with some Zaccaro, Penrose, etc. thrown in, but it seems the fresher I keep things, the better. He does really well following Singapore, but I think after several years of it, he also is kind of bored with the format. We might try AoPS for next year after we wrap up 5B and IP/CWP for 5. We'll see how that goes for him. He just read a cryptography book on my Kindle a week or two ago, so it is a topic fresh on our minds. Any chance you recall the titles he used for reading on his own? If not, no problem.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Mysterious Messages: A History of Codes and Ciphers by Gary Blackwood is the one I can find.

[Momof3littles]

Mysterious Messages: A History of Codes and Ciphers by Gary Blackwood is the one I can find.

 

Thank you! THat's the one he just read on my Kindle a week or two ago.