Not handling the multi ages very well :(

[Tardis Girl]

The title says it. I am a long-time homeschooler, but now my oldest two are thousands of miles away and I have left at home a 8.5, almost 7, and 4yo and feel clueless. I feel like the 8.5yo isn't challenged enough and the 4yo gets pushed to the side too much and the almost 7yo gets lost in the shuffle. They all are suffering from a lack of consistency and good habits, aren't anywhere near reaching their potential, and they have a guilt-ridden mom now. ;)

 

I know some of the common solutions -- do as many things together as you can, like history, then have the older one read more challenging books; have special time with the youngest, a box of toys that only comes at certain times when you are working with the older ones; and so on. It all sounds good in theory, but in practice?? I'm dying here!

 

I feel ridiculous even bringing up this topic. Oh ya, and I feel guilty because I should know this or just be better organized or whatever. Plus we've had like 4 major life changes in the past 6 months, so that doesn't help, but I can't keep living like this and there are no legitimate excuses for this anymore.

 

Oh, and about the youngest: My 4yob will play electronics EVERY chance he gets. It started as a crutch of desperation on my part while coping with some extreme challenges, but I've created a monster. From the moment he wakes up he is asking for the Gameboy or the Leapster. The older 2 have discarded smartphones on which they can use the Kindle App and play games, so he also plays games on that. And some of them are good games. I don't mind some electronics use. But I actually got to the point this week of saying, "No, you need to watch a video. How about Little Bear?" So now I'm pushing TV on my kid? Oh how the mighty have fallen! lol OK, so I do love the sweetness of Little Bear, but can't believe it's come to this. The 4yo is happy when he has my full attention or is doing anything with electronics. We have much work to do. Much.work. :(

 

And I just want to get rid of everything in the house and live a life of simplicity and meaning.

 

Would love to hear some realistic schedules and routines and habits out there! I want a certain level of academic rigor and love of learning -- had that with the college kids when they were this age, but am not handling this new season well. At.all. No more excuses though. This needs to happen!

 

All words of encouragement will be received with extreme gratitude. :thumbup:

[BugsMama]

Take the electronics away. Grab a box, put them in there, and put the box away. I even had to take the TV out of the living room to break my kids of the habit. The first week was miserable. Horrible, awful. But now, my kids found their imagination again. It made it a lot easier once they learned how to play.

 

Pair up the kids. Write out a schedule (have you seen managers of their homes?) for the school day. Know where YOU are, and where the little one is. The kids can read to each other. They can play with each other. You can rotate through them.

 

And- be gentle with yourself! It will get better!

[boscopup]

My kids do best if I say "no electronics until Friday at 4pm". Then they also have the weekend with limited electronics. My middle son gets wild and crazy if he gets much screen time. It seriously affects his behavior in a bad way. So taking them away all week makes life so much easier for all of us. And if there aren't electronics, they start reading books and doing imaginative play, like young children should do. :)

 

And yes, create a schedule. You don't have to follow it too religiously (it's 9:00am, we need to switch to grammar!), but use it more as a layout of your day to form a routine around. Basically, the schedule lets you know that yes, you really can fit those subjects in the time allotted. I also recommend working with your 4 year old FIRST. Sit down and read picture books to him. My 3.5 year old insists on "school", so we do a R&S ABC series workbook, or my 8 year old will sometimes do math or reading lessons with him while I work with my 6 year old. Also, figure out which things your 8 year old (and possibly 7 year old) can do independently, so they have things they can do while you work with the 4 year old (and again, reading to him is all you really need to do if he isn't insisting on school like the big kids).

 

When you first take the electronics away, you may have some issues with the youngster being "bored". I always respond to such things by giving them a cleaning task to do, though my 6 year old will come up and say, "What can I do that isn't cleaning or tickling?" :lol: My 8 year old learned to not ask in the first place, and so has my 3 year old. :) Basically, you want them to have to figure out something to do on their own without you directing it or an electronic device becoming the crutch. That takes time, but it's very much worth the effort!

[Faithr]

I am also a long time homeschooler and I am about to do the same thing with my kids, who once again have become thoroughly addicted. We are restricting our screen entertainment time drastically. I am collecting all the little electronics (ipods and DSI) and stick them in my dresser during the day. I cover the PCs with pillow cases to let everyone know they are off limits until I take the cover off. This laptop I am using gets shut and stick something on top if it so you have to actually move the cup of markers in order to open it!

 

Can you arrange some kind of fun outing or project to ease the pain of withdrawal? Today is going to be especially painful for us because we are starting back this a.m. We are focusing on math and writing. But then we are going to the bookstore to spend our gifts cards from Christmas and we'll probably eat sandwiches at the bagel place nearby for lunch. This evening, if the weather is good we are going to a lights show they have at a nearby park for the holiday season.

 

A new fun read aloud might be a good way to lure the kids away. How about a new game or making an obstacle course, playdates, field trips? I would just try to brainstorm as many alternatives that seem like good options and focus on really living and enjoying fun, new experiences. How about a kit to make something new? To me once you get them away from the electronics for a few days, all that ability to entertain themselves or to be engaged in doing actual things starts to re-emerge. But I find I have to come up with a strategy or else life becomes hell for a while!!!

 

Btw, I think we older moms just get tired. Sometimes I think, What? I've got to do this all again? My brain cells don't seem to be able to recall just how I handled things. Or I thought these later children would be just like the older ones and they are NOT. So I have to relearn things all over again. Darn it!

[Faithr]

I also wanted to say that I do let them have their electronics or computer time after they have done academic work, helped around the house, gotten some exercise and social time with family, etc. I don't really mind them playing games, etc in moderation. It is that it is so hard to be moderate about it and tends to take over everything. But I want them to learn to moderate themselves, so I don't do a full ban. I want them to learn to moderate while at home so that when they go out into the world they already know what it feels like and what they need to do to rein themselves in.

[Chris in VA]

Do all your kids get along well? I won't recommend pairing kids if they don't. :boxing_smiley: LOL--

 

Looking at your curricula, it seems like there are a couple of opportunities for you to combine, as you said, and some independent work you can assign. What do you do already?

 

Is piano independent? (IOW, are you teaching this, or is it just practice, which can be independent?) Are both olders taking this?

 

Are they on the same level for Chinese?

 

Not sure what classic lit is--is it a reading program or are you just reading to them, or is it independent reading (plus maybe discussion or something?)

 

It seems to me (making some assumptions) that you could combine kids with Chinese and the reading the book part of CHOW. You could do the same read aloud with the older two,also. Spelling and math would need to be separate, as would the writing portion of any history notebooking you might do (not sure if you do this, but I loved it, so I always recommend it!). Nature Study could be done with EVERYONE, even the 4yo. Piano and Typing Pal would be separate AND independent, allowing you some windows to "divide and conquer." You can also give a short chore list to be done independently, too, and set up some independent reading time, giving further chances to work one-on-one. It does depend somewhat on how well your olders work independently, too, but that can be learned.

 

(Mind you, I only had two to rotate thru, but they couldn't share/be combine with anything, as one was K and one was HS when we started.)

 

So perhaps something like:

 

First 15-20 mins

8yo--Typing Pal

7yo--tidies room, does a chore

4yo--hears a picture book with you and then you start him on a little Kumon exercise or a Montessori letter activity, after which he can play with something of his choosing

 

Second 30 mins

8yo reads independently

7yo Maths w you

4yo plays

 

Next 30 mins

8yo Maths

7yo plays with 4yo

 

Next 30

7yo Typing Pal

8yo piano

4yo plays with you (maybe helping prep lunch or doing a chore, or building, or whatever)

 

Next 20-30

Chow (little one can listen in or play, or color a relevant picture while listening)

Then separate notebooking pages, to be completed independently. Do CHOW 3 days a week.

 

Break for all

 

Next 20

Read aloud or spelling--I don't know how involved spelling is as we used a workbook

 

Lunch

 

Read aloud or spelling

 

Chinese together

 

Quiet time for everyone

 

Nature Walk once a week, with littlest having his own kit, too.

 

IDK--Just throwing a schedule out there for you. First try--

[....]

I'm having a mini-nervous breakdown this week, too. I'm teaching an 11 yro, 10 yro, 7 yro and 5 yro. On Monday, I came up with a new school motto: "Littlest one first." No matter what, I'm going to work with the 5 yro first and then the 7 yro is next. I also took a pen last night to our schedule and crossed off several things. I tend to plan WAY too much LA. It's like my kids are going for their PhDs in English. :confused1:

 

And there's no way I can combine mine either. They're so drastically different. My oldest checked out a high school level book on Biomes at the library the other day while my other daughters are reading "The Llama Who Had No Pajama". :bored: I mean, combining is just not possible.

 

If you want to know about us and electronics: we don't even have cable, so we don't have a big problem with electronics in this house. We only have one computer (and it's in my bedroom). No Nintendo DSs or anything like that. So, I don't have much advice.

 

Have you read Simplicity Parenting? I'm a huge fan of that book. It talks about simplifying your household/schedule and creating some serenity in your house. If only he had a chapter on homeschooling multiple children!

[Ellie]

The rule of thumb is that you teach to the oldest child and let the younger ones come along, instead of thinking about "combining" children. You don't "combine" children. o_0

 

ITA with getting rid of the electronics.

 

Which does not negate Evanthe's "littlest one first" routine. I like that. :-) You can work with your little guy in the morning (which really shouldn't need to be that much as he's only 4), while the olders read on their own or do chores or just be busy doing *something* other than electronics.

 

Some of this is a discipline issue. There may be great wailing and gnashing of teeth when you get rid of the electronics, and the children won't be happy either. :laugh: You might even end up spending some time on the discipline things (e.g., he *must* sit with you and do his own special things while you work with the olders) and not worry about the academic things for awhile.

 

Sometimes after big life changes, we have to rope things in, not by doing something different but by doing what we're pretty sure will work and we just got sidetracked.

 

:grouphug:

[ElizaG]

The rule of thumb is that you teach to the oldest child and let the younger ones come along, instead of thinking about "combining" children. You don't "combine" children. o_0

I think there must be more than one rule of thumb floating around out there. :) I've found that it often works just as well to teach to the younger ones, and have the older ones either help out or do their own (more complicated) thing using the same materials.

 

And I do combine children -- e.g. preschool activities might be aimed at the 3 & 5 year olds, or a book we're reading would be aimed at the 6 & 8 year olds. Then the specific assignments are simplified or extended for each child. This can be done with some types of prepared curriculum (at one point we were using WWE workbooks, and one child was doing the short sentences and the other was doing the long ones), but of course it's easier if you're making up the questions yourself. We also do much more oral than written work, which helps a lot.

 

This isn't going to work for every subject, but it seems to go well for us for history, geography, literature, PE, music, and religion.

 

As for the 4 year old boy, I wish I knew. When my older DS was that age, I ended up putting him in preschool, but that didn't go well either. We're in an easier spot at the moment right now, because my little folks are either still taking naps or are unusually quiet and attentive, but that will likely change in the coming year. I think I'm going to have to get creative.

 

I agree with those who would take away the electronics. Four year olds need to be working with real things: digging in the dirt, painting, using a hammer & tacks. Or if those things take too much supervision, then maybe a sandbox, or some scrap paper and glue sticks.

 

My dream is to have our back patio covered, fenced, and set up as a safe preschool play area (with sand table, tricycle, easel, etc.), which would be visible from our kitchen and school table. It hasn't happened yet, but maybe there's something the OP can do along those lines.

[Ellie]

My head thinks in terms of teaching children together when possible, not "combining" them. :-)

 

And teaching to the oldest child is a concept that Jessica Hulcey, co-author of KONOS, encouraged. I only have two dc, so it probably looked different in my house than in the house of someone with multiple children, but yes, when it came to much of what we did that wasn't specifically related to English skills or math, I planned for my older dd and brought younger dd along, although actually, I didn't often think that way. We were pretty much unschoolers for the first four or five years, and I didn't put things in specific educational categories. We were just learning stuff.

 

Nevertheless, at least for unit studies, and for the sake of keeping sanity, it often does work better to plan for the oldest when it comes to history and geography and science, bringing the littles along (because really, history and geography and science don't really have "grade levels" or even age levels), and then to work individually with all the dc on their literacy and math skills (and even those can often be done to multiple ages).

[Tardis Girl]

Thank you so much for all the thoughts shared! Keep 'em coming! ;)

 

You know, when my college ones were young we had a TV in the closet that was only occasionally watched, no hand-held electronics, no Wii... maybe an old Atari game from time to time. lol Life was so different. <sigh> So this is going to be a big change but I really want this! (Today he woke up asking to play the GameBoy, which he did because I have not yet steeled myself for this battle, then later he played Reading Eggs, and now after lunch he wants to play a phonics game on the computer. I do feel better about the phonics stuff, but still!)

 

And I did "teach to the oldest" as mentioned, but they were only 1-1/2 yrs apart and no younger sibs then. In fact, the younger one ended up keeping up over those years and ended up going across the country to college when she had just turned 17, essentially graduating early in terms of ps ages...but really she just started K early. So it definitely worked.

 

But while my almost 7 and 8.5yo are only about 21 months apart, I do recognize that I need to be more aware of the differences between them and not just try to do EVERYTHING together. That's my struggle is recognizing their differences and meeting them where they are.

 

Evanthe -- I seriously burst out laughing (to tears!) at your Biomes vs. "The Llama Who Had No Pajamas" comparison! And I will look into the Simplicity Parenting book on Amazon. (ETA: the library has it -- yay!)

 

Chris in VA -- thank you for taking a crack at a schedule/routine! I appreciate the starting point. I do teach piano (other kids and my own), but they can do practice on their own so that works. Lots of other things we're not really getting to, but one thing at a time, right? I should sit down and list out everything based on together vs independent maybe as a first step.

 

Another problem I have is how to "step things up" for the 8.5yo or ease up on the younger sister when it comes to an assignment. I'm sooo bad at this because I just had the older crew do everything like they were twins! (Which really wasn't the best idea, in retrospect.) In fact, I started another thread on comparing WWE vs IEW vs BraveWriter vs DIY, so if anyone else wants to chime on that issue, I'd love to hear it. I need to differentiate more than I do, but I need to keep it doable for me too.

 

I forgot I have some R&S workbooks for my little guy -- thanks for the reminder, Boscopup!

 

I know I didn't mention everyone by name, but I really, honestly appreciate every word that was written. You guys are great! Thanks for the specifics and all the encouragement!

[ElizaG]

Ellie, maybe the difference is that although I'm fairly relaxed about the early elementary years, we're not unschoolers, and I'm quite intentional about including kindergarten, preschool, and even baby and toddler activities as part of our "school." Not so much workbooks (although my 4 and 5 year olds will often do a page or two a day from R&S or Kumon), but poetry, art, music, physical activities, Montessori work, and so on. We don't do nearly as much of this as I'd like, as my patience and energy are limited, but they really eat up what I do offer them. Maybe these are things other parents do as a matter of course, but for me, I've found that it's very easy to short-change the little folks if I don't make it a priority to slow down -- almost to a snail's pace, sometimes -- and try to look at things through their eyes.

 

I've been trying to discipline myself toward this since my eldest (now ~4th grader) was tiny, and at this point, my habits and home environment are so oriented to early childhood that it's hard to make the transition to teaching older children. Which is funny, because I'm not really a natural with the little ones. I think I'll do better with late elementary and high school, once I can figure out how to get this clunky old train to switch tracks more easily. :) Or, better yet, how to get everyone on the same track, without feeling like I'm favoring one age group over the others.

 

To be specific, my biggest success so far has come from starting with content-rich, multi-sensory materials that are made for 3-7 year olds (books & activity guides from thematic curricula; K12 history; anything Montessori), exploring them as a group, and then providing more advanced books and materials for the older ones to use in their spare time. We all really enjoy this, but my eldest is ready for some challenging and substantial assignments. I've thought about just making up my own, but now I'm thinking we'll try the Creek Edge task cards first and see how that goes.

[FairProspects]

I agree on working with the youngest first. It sort of fills up their love cup and their need for attention and then they seem a bit better able to direct themselves. My older either listens to an audiobook or watches a documentary that goes along with our science first thing upstairs while I work with my youngest downstairs. Then the rest of the morning I spend on my older (your two olders) and my youngest stays in the playroom (which works much better now that I have it set up more like a preschool/K with an art project area, a science/building area, a dramatic play area with costumes & tent, books and a book nook). I pretty much just give him the materials and he is able to amuse himself, but he is a bit older, and I do think it takes some practice and training. The scheduling is important though, and flipping between the two kids did not work out well here. I lost too much time in transition. It is much easier to do K, and just release the younger one to play or do projects.

[karenmb]

There is some kind of homeschool taboo on saying that not all domestic situations are going to work out if mom just tries her hardest, but I don't think it's possible to homeschool all sibling sets without outside help. I think some people get really lucky and it's easy, and some people are less lucky and have to put effort into it but the effort pays off, so they're still luckier than the last group for whom nothing is going to work. For the last group your choices are wait it out, put the older ones in school, or put the little kids into daycare or get a mother's helper in order the meet the older children's academic needs. I have observed a lot of homeschool families over a lot of years and honestly? I don't see that parenting makes much of a difference here. It's mostly sibling dynamics, and when there's a rambunctious, demanding little one and homeschooling is still working out for the family, every single time there is a nurturing older sibling. And I notice that your older kids just moved away? So maybe getting a mother's helper/older sibling replacement will be magic.

[PeterPan]

Not sure if this has already been said, but I think, given their ages, you should pull back and find something YOU really want to do. May be partly that you've just btdt on almost everything and are bored and burnt out. Might be time to do something really DIFFERENT for a while. A semester of legos, read alouds, and museum trips won't hurt that age. Won't hurt any age actually. Anyways, that's what I'd do. If you're not pepped about it, not likely anyone else is gonna get there.

[CatholicMom]

I think you can reign things in once you decide to do it. Starting is the hardest part! It might help to physically organize your home space to have a psychological sense of "all is under control." Then I think you know you have to tackle the electronics issue. It will probably be harder for a week but after your kids form some new habits it will be so much better. If you need "alone time" that the electronics currently give you, maybe do a forced "play in you room" or "quiet time in your room" thing where you do not come out until the clock strikes _____. Set an alarm (I use my oven timer for a lot of stuff, lol). If you don't feel guilty about your kids doing electronics too much, but you are still getting your quiet time, maybe everything else will be easier to navigate?

[Tardis Girl]

Oh so many thought-provoking comments -- thank you! I've been thinking about so many of the comments throughout my day today, thinking about what to change and how to change. I think after some more reflection I will get some thoughts from the 8yo in particular -- she will love sharing her thoughts with me, I'm sure. ;)

 

On a tangent, my kids received some Legos for Christmas this year (a new thing for us). They actually got more Legos than I expected because relatives bought Legos too, which was a surprise to me. But anyway, the 8yo excitedly told me that now no one will "have to" play the GameBoy or watch TV because they can just play Legos all the time. It was so funny when she said it, but so sad too.

 

I think I may start another thread about simplifying our environment, too. Hmm.... much to consider.

[HS Mom in NC]

I have a friend homeschooling kids who are 17, 14, 10, 5 and 5. The read aloud time is for all the kids together first thing in the morning. Any kids that can be worked with together are grouped that way as needed for a particular subject but with the age spread she has, I think that doesn't happen much so she rotates through the kids like one room school teachers of the past.

 

She does a set of 36 week file folders for each child that has all their assignments for the week in them for each subject. Workbooks, study guides, worksheets, project assignments, assigned reading and the like are all listed for the week and are either legally copied or physically disassembled into the weekly folders. All of the children also have an easily accessible backlog of high quality, age/skill level appropriate reading material or educational toys depending on their abilities. This makes it so they have plenty to do. They start working on their own at whatever they can do independently. If there is absolutely nothing they can do independently, they can choose from the backlog of reading material, play with the educational toys or do something on their chore list until mom gets to them.

 

Mom spends time every day with each child individually explaining and helping them until they understand enough to finish the assignment of their own. She has a kind of a rotation routine so everyone gets the help they need. I think the youngest get her attention first. After she's been through each kid to get them going for the day she's available for follow up questions as needed from whoever needs it later. As they get older they need less 1 on 1 time.

 

There are ways to modify those things to suit your needs if you think they might help. You may not want to start with the whole year planned out and ready to go, but your could start with a day's, a week's or a month's worth of things ready to go. Your kids could get a day's worth of things to work on until you have time to give them your undivided attention and you could work your way up to a week's worth of assignments as you and the kids get the hang of it.

 

My kids are 17,15, and 7. I had to rotate one on one time for a while when the little one first came along. The youngest arrived at 7 months old (she's adopted) and the older two were 7 and 9 at the time. I could combine math because the middle one was a whiz and the oldest a little slower in that subject. History was easily combined with them. Reading and writing had to be done separately so I had to rotate between them. The little one had "mat time" where I put out a small area rug in the room with us and she played with quiet toys while I read aloud to everyone. Sometimes the little one played in the room next to us when she was being loud and rambunctious while I worked with the other two individually. As soon as they were up and running with their assignments the youngest could have my full attention.

 

It's a juggling act until the older ones are more independent learners, but once they get going on their own, they like being independent. They can get it done and not need a lot of hand holding. It kind of builds on itself over time. I do the 36 file folder now with the older two and they love it because they know exactly when they're done for the week. There are several situations when they worked ahead to go to a midnight movie premiere or went to some activity on a Friday morning.