Crimson Wife Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 So DD has been working through Singapore Discovering Math 1A and it's been going well. I'm putting together a 2nd semester curriculum order through our virtual charter and I go to order the 2nd semester book. Turns out that the new Common Core Standards edition Discovering Math 7 has shifted two of the chapters that used to be in DM 1B into DM CCS 7A. They are percents and ratios, two topics I know from working through PM that my DD needs to review. I hate to have the charter order CCS 7A just for 2 out of the 8 chapters because it's ~$50 for the text & solutions guide (which I definitely will need). I'd rather use the stipend for something that isn't 75% redundant. I could go to CBD and pay out-of-pocket for the old DM 1B and save the charter stipend for something else. However, there are some chapters on probability, statistics, and data analysis in CCS 7B that I would like DD to do. AOPS Pre-Algebra has a couple chapters on the topics and the charter will pay for it. However, DD's personality is such that the "discovery" approach would be a very bad fit. She is very much a sequential thinker and wants to be shown how to do things step-by-step-by-step. She gets frustrated sometimes with Singapore's conceptual leaps so a book where she has to teach herself via puzzling through problems is likely to go over like a lead balloon. I've looked at the MM "blue" worktexts on ratios and percents, and they are certainly inexpensive but I'm not sure they are comparable in challenge level to the DM chapters. The Larson Elementary Algebra text I picked up last week from the charter lending library has some sections on ratios & percents but they are fairly brief. FWIW, her younger brother is fairly "mathy" and seems likely to be a good fit for AOPS some day. However, he's only in Singapore 3 (doing 3B while working on memorizing his times tables). So it would be a while before he's ready for the pre-algebra book. What would you all recommend doing in this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 How about picking up a cheap prealgebra textbook like Dolciani? I got mine (1985 version) for $6 shipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 We are working through MM6 and I can tell you, even for my very mathy daughter, the ratios section is VERY challenging (we have reached percents yet). I'm not sure about her blue series, but I would assume it's the same thing as in MM6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I would start with the MM sections on ratios and percents. I'm not sure which of the Blue books are same lessons as the ones in MM6, but I think the instruction is clear and excellent and the problems are sufficiently rigorous IMO. Those are probably the best two chapters in MM6. Eta, these Blue books: Ratios, Proportions & Problem Solving, Percent After that, if you want more, you might do the ratio and percent chapters (ch 6 and 7) in Dolciani Prealgebra. I can't remember if you have it, but it's inexpensive if you get the cheapest used one. If I can get to it, I'll try to post a few pics of that. Alternatively, if what you're really looking for is harder problems, you could have her do the MM and then follow that with the ratio and percent chapters in AoPS. AoPS will offer more difficult problems than the Dolciani, though they're both good. She will have already had the vast majority of the necessary instruction in MM, and the AoPS videos are great on these topics. Speed would be the one topic that would be harder in AoPS, as I don't remember it being covered in MM. I do think speed is in Dolciani someplace. Dolciani also includes working with interest rates, while I don't remember seeing interest rate work in MM or AoPS (though I may just be forgetting; ds did the AoPS ratio chapter recently and will be starting the percent one soon, once he finishes the review I've assigned in Alcumus). Which reminds me - you could have her do the MM books and then try a combination of the AoPS videos and Alcumus on those topics - all free :) (sometimes Alcumus seems a bit easier than the Prealgebra text, though there are levels, so there's a wide range of difficulty). Eta, this is probably the route I'd try first. If you end up wanting more than Alcumus (which can go on and on and on if you want it to) or you want more detail on the instruction, you can always get the book then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Great advice so far. Between MM, AoPS videos/Alcumus and Dolciani I don't think you can go wrong with these affordable, high quality options. One more great free resource is Khan which we've used for Pre-A and Algebra supplementation. They have both lessons and associated problems which worked well for ds11. Here is the section on percents: http://www.khanacade...hmetic/percents Questions: http://www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic/percents/e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 what about the key to series just for those two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillian Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 This is a free online prealgebra textbook http://mathrev.redwoods.edu/PreAlgText/ . I don't know if it would suit your purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 $ is $, whether you pay for the book and use the stipend for something later or vise versa. I'd use the stipend money now (so it gets used up), and stick with the thing you know has been working for her. I also think it's reasonable to want to stay in the same thought process for the curriculum you're wanting to go forward with. That way you know she can do the types of things she needs to do to move forward in that particular curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 what about the key to series just for those two? Which Key to... book has ratios in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 This is a free online prealgebra textbook http://mathrev.redwo...edu/PreAlgText/ . I don't know if it would suit your purposes. Thanks for this link! Money is tight right now, and I'm gearing up for pre-algebra with one of my boys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 oh, sorry, i guess i dont know, i havent used them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks for this link! Money is tight right now, and I'm gearing up for pre-algebra with one of my boys... Zoo Keeper, I would highly recommend Dolciani Pre-Algebra if resources are tight. You can usually pick up a used copy for a few dollars if you search around online. I got one for ~ $6 and I've seen them sell for $1. Here is a link to some: http://www.abebooks....&tn=pre algebra Dolciani covers more than the free books referenced above in terms of scope. Not all Pre-A are created equal, especially since its definition varies considerably depending on who you ask. For some its merely a review of primary arithmetic. However I have found that introducing algebraic concepts during this stage to be *very* beneficial. For example linear equations is a good one which many Pre-A programs now introduce among others. Of course review is important. But looking ahead is also important in preparing students for the rigors of Algebra 1 soon to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Zoo Keeper, I would highly recommend Dolciani Pre-Algebra if resources are tight. You can usually pick up a used copy for a few dollars if you search around online. I got one for ~ $6 and I've seen them sell for $1. Here is a link to some: http://www.abebooks....&tn=pre algebra Dolciani covers more than the free books referenced above in terms of scope. Not all Pre-A are created equal, especially since its definition varies considerably depending on who you ask. For some its merely a review of primary arithmetic. However I have found that introducing algebraic concepts during this stage to be *very* beneficial. For example linear equations is a good one which many Pre-A programs now introduce amoung others. Of course review is important. But looking ahead is also important in preparing students for the rigors of Algebra 1 soon to follow. Thanks for sleuthing around for deals; I do appreciate it. Dolciani is on my short list, if some funds fall down from the sky... I did enjoy checking out the older Dolciani editions you linked upthread through Open Library. I find the set up and explanations to be straightforward. I NEED that. I have been introducing algebraic thinking by using MEP with my boys; one of them seems to get algebra concepts at a glance, while the other boy is like his poor dear mother, who needs simple, uncluttered explanations. I hoping to find something we could all use together (despite the age difference, the boys are at a similar level in math). I do realize that I'll probably have to supplement with more challenging material for the mathy boy. Does anyone know if MEP yr. 7-9 (or another year) is a good pre-algebra course? Since my own understanding of upper level math is weak, I have a hard time judging/comparing anything past a fifth grade level... ETA: Sorry to hijack, Crimson Wife. :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillian Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I haven't compared pre-Algebra programs *at all*, but the one I linked does cover graphing linear equations (last chapter, under graphing, I just checked). I would think that would be pretty standard for pre-algebra? I would think it's a pretty basic book and again, I know people have compared programs extensively, which is not something I have done. DS is still more than a year a year away from pre-algebra so I am only beginning to worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I haven't compared pre-Algebra programs *at all*, but the one I linked does cover graphing linear equations (last chapter, under graphing, I just checked). I would think that would be pretty standard for pre-algebra? I would think it's a pretty basic book and again, I know people have compared programs extensively, which is not something I have done. DS is still more than a year a year away from pre-algebra so I am only beginning to worry about it. Good find Trillian. I didn't see the coverage of Linear Equations toward the end. And yes, Pre-Algebra S&S can vary significantly as well as depth and rigor. So a good review of the programs is in order. AoPS seems to provide the most challenge at this level. Of course that level of difficulty is not necessary for every child. And there are plenty of other great programs with adequate challenge besides AoPS. Their whole 'discovery' approach is another beast in itself which a student may or may not be ready for. I did find that the MUS Pre-A we started with to be lacking in these areas however for our ds11 which lead to switching to TabletClass. There are many factors to consider when looking for a best fit for your dc. Some of these include age/maturity level, abstract reasoning capability, prior exposure to 'variables', math oriented student (STEM possibly), plans for Algebra 1, etc... Your plans for Algebra 1 can help determine what is best for Pre-A. For example if your dc is potentially a STEM student and you plan to use curriculum which is known to be more on the rigorous side then a stronger Pre-A is also advisable. Otherwise they could become overwelmed very quickly in difficult Algebra 1 course. On the other had if the child is relatively young and has time you could extend Algebra 1 over two years and start with something a bit more gentle like MUS Algebra 1, TT or Jacobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 This is a free online prealgebra textbook http://mathrev.redwoods.edu/PreAlgText/ . I don't know if it would suit your purposes. Looks very good. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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