credit for remedial work?

[razorbackmama]

I was talking with a literacy specialist friend of mine today, and she was telling me that often she'll talk with parents of high schoolers who really need tutoring to get their reading skills up to par, but because they are having to spend so much time on work for CREDIT, they don't, since the tutoring work would not be for credit. She was asking me if I knew how it might be possible to put together some sort of remedial work yet have this work count towards a credit of some sort. I told her the only thing I could come up with would be an elective of some sort, but even then I wasn't sure how it would look.

 

So I thought I'd ask the true experts...The Hive.:D Do y'all have any idea of how this might be possible? She is working with homeschoolers, public schoolers, and everything in between.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I was talking with a literacy specialist friend of mine today, and she was telling me that often she'll talk with parents of high schoolers who really need tutoring to get their reading skills up to par, but because they are having to spend so much time on work for CREDIT, they don't, since the tutoring work would not be for credit. She was asking me if I knew how it might be possible to put together some sort of remedial work yet have this work count towards a credit of some sort. I told her the only thing I could come up with would be an elective of some sort, but even then I wasn't sure how it would look.

 

So I thought I'd ask the true experts...The Hive.:D Do y'all have any idea of how this might be possible? She is working with homeschoolers, public schoolers, and everything in between.

 

If this were my homeschooled child, I'd count it toward a credit in that subject. It's still work being done, even if it is not up to grade level. A child in public school doing remedial work would get credit for that class.

 

However, the public schooled children, being tutored in this situation, are probably out of luck. She can't assign credit to them for tutoring above their normal coursework. (Right?--At least I've never heard of that.)

[tex-mex]

Never heard of such a thing.

[JanetC]

I think some homeschoolers get so caught up in making sure their kids are doing "rigorous" work that they make all the credits much harder to earn than they would be in regular high school.

 

In most cases, homeschoolers have the freedom to award credit for things as we see fit. (Keeping appropriate records for things like college admissions--I wouldn't expect remedial reading to look great on your Harvard application, but I'm sure there are kids with stuff like that at large state universities.)

 

A few states are more highly regulated, require school district review, etc. Some people choose to regulate themselves by signing up for umbrella schools and such as well.

 

I think the answer for this specialist is to understand the homeschool laws in her state, and the specific umbrella programs her clients are using (if any), and see why the parents feel the kids can't get credit.

 

--Janet

[Nscribe]

I have known parents who didn't hesitate when hiring a math tutor, especially if doing so meant their dc's would be able to take Algebra and/or Geometry in middle school, but would not consider tutors in other content areas. Math placement seems rather clear cut, but often in the schools locally the kids in those classes are doing their homework with a tutor. We have a wide assortment of math tutoring shops around and see them at the libraries and book store coffee shops all time.

 

We do not see literacy tutors (with the exception of the occassional young elementary aged kid). Formal screening for gifted placement takes place in 3rd grade locally, and many parents will hire tutors for a couple of years before to boost their dc's performance on the ITBS/CogAT.

 

Based on what I have observed (take it for what it is worth), many don't feel qualified to tutor their own kids in math but feel they can support them in reading and thus don't contract out for it.

[razorbackmama]

I think some homeschoolers get so caught up in making sure their kids are doing "rigorous" work that they make all the credits much harder to earn than they would be in regular high school.

 

In most cases, homeschoolers have the freedom to award credit for things as we see fit. (Keeping appropriate records for things like college admissions--I wouldn't expect remedial reading to look great on your Harvard application, but I'm sure there are kids with stuff like that at large state universities.)

 

A few states are more highly regulated, require school district review, etc. Some people choose to regulate themselves by signing up for umbrella schools and such as well.

 

I think the answer for this specialist is to understand the homeschool laws in her state, and the specific umbrella programs her clients are using (if any), and see why the parents feel the kids can't get credit.

 

--Janet

While homeschoolers were included in her question, she was also referring to public schoolers as well.

 

I have known parents who didn't hesitate when hiring a math tutor, especially if doing so meant their dc's would be able to take Algebra and/or Geometry in middle school, but would not consider tutors in other content areas. Math placement seems rather clear cut, but often in the schools locally the kids in those classes are doing their homework with a tutor. We have a wide assortment of math tutoring shops around and see them at the libraries and book store coffee shops all time.

 

We do not see literacy tutors (with the exception of the occassional young elementary aged kid). Formal screening for gifted placement takes place in 3rd grade locally, and many parents will hire tutors for a couple of years before to boost their dc's performance on the ITBS/CogAT.

 

Based on what I have observed (take it for what it is worth), many don't feel qualified to tutor their own kids in math but feel they can support them in reading and thus don't contract out for it.

These kids are SEVERELY delayed, not just trying to boost their scores. As in, it's not uncommon for her to work with a completely unreading high schooler.:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:

 

Of course, what I can't grasp is how these kids are able to complete content courses for credit when they are illiterate, but we're talking about the public school system here so....:glare:

[Nscribe]

These kids are SEVERELY delayed, not just trying to boost their scores. As in, it's not uncommon for her to work with a completely unreading high schooler.:001_huh::001_huh::001_huh:

 

Of course, what I can't grasp is how these kids are able to complete content courses for credit when they are illiterate, but we're talking about the public school system here so....:glare:

 

If schools are giving the kids credit, I can't imagine much of a market for parents to pay for "more". (Not my way of thinking for my dc, but...)

[razorbackmama]

If schools are giving the kids credit, I can't imagine much of a market for parents to pay for "more". (Not my way of thinking for my dc, but...)

They are though. They're willing, but then when they see how much time the tutoring will take, and then they don't get credit for it, they decide to skip the tutoring, since it will take time away from the work they DO receive credit for.

 

My friend isn't trying to figure out how to approach these parents and market herself...she is trying to figure out how to work with the situation, since the parents DO want help for their kids.

[Nscribe]

How much time weekly does it take?

[razorbackmama]

How much time weekly does it take?

That's a good question.

 

I do know that for students without learning issues (as these kids would have, since they are seeking her out for tutoring), it is not uncommon around here for kids to spend 6 hours a day at school and then have 4-6 hours of homework every night. I'm thinking that it would be even longer for kids who struggle.

 

I actually think that is what my friend would be looking for...how much would she need to put together to "count" as a credit (or I guess a half) so that these kids and their parents wouldn't just throw away the idea of tutoring simply because they wouldn't get credit for it?

[Nscribe]

A thread recently brought out a point that may be an issue for those in the "schooled" market (public or private). At the high school level, schools determine what constitutes a credit that they will post on the transcripts they produce. Thus your friend's customers would have to check with the school for each of the dc's to see if the credit would be accepted. Given the way too many high schools treat homeschool credits when students try to transfer in from homeschooling, it is hard to imagine selling them on standing behind a credit for remedial work from an external source.

 

Homeschoolers have more flexibility. I suppose it could be argued that what "keeps us honest" is testing validation. If we list courses on a transcript, whatever we list really is going to often be deemed "real"/"valid" if external tests or other external validations (dual enrollments...) jive with the claims on the transcript. Extreme Example: Near perfect SAT score on all fronts (including writing) and transcript reads "Literacy Enhancement 0.5 credit per year", then college admin reviewer may scratch their heads but would accept it as productive work reflected? The thing is, many homeschoolers I know would prefer not to list anything that may indicate remedial work in that situation (unless they were seeking accomodations).

 

My question about "how much time" was meant to ask: how much time would your friend's program take from a student weekly?

 

I am not trying to be contentious, I am trying to understand better the service being offered. If it really is about serious remediation of basic literacy skills, will take families a substantial chunk of weekly time and they are able to seemingly get by without it, it may be a hard one to sell. A student struggling with literacy is going to take longer to do existing schoolwork. The student may benefit from the tutoring most in reducing that time, but it is often hard to have people be willing to take on more for a longer term gain when they are getting by.

[razorbackmama]

If it really is about serious remediation of basic literacy skills, will take families a substantial chunk of weekly time and they are able to seemingly get by without it, it may be a hard one to sell. A student struggling with literacy is going to take longer to do existing schoolwork. The student may benefit from the tutoring most in reducing that time, but it is often hard to have people be willing to take on more for a longer term gain when they are getting by.

That's exactly it and why she was asking me about it.:001_smile: She's not even sure if she and her partner will be able to come up with something. It absolutely kills her to not be able to help these kids, simply because they don't have enough time for "non-credit work." It's such a catch-22.

 

I'll pass along the info. y'all have shared - you really have been quite a bit of help!

[Jann in TX]

There are a million reasons why a student would need remedial instruction-- not limited to: Learning disabilities, emotional trauma, poor instruction, unwillingness or rebellion of student...

 

At the high school level giving credit for 'remedial instruction/tutoring' is like giving credit for 'Underwater Basket Weaving'... it would be a meaningless elective and would not fulfill the state minimum graduation requirements which contain SPECIFIC levels of instruction (core subjects).

 

Remedial instruction would be instruction in a core concept area.

 

Giving a student credit for remedial instruction in math (as an elective) would not make a difference unless the student could pass the ACTUAL core class (a true credit).

 

The student would not 'graduate' (receive a state diploma) unless the core requirements were met-- even if they have 1000 credits in Underwater Basket Weaving.

 

A student doing 5th grade math should not earn high school 'credit' for that level even if it is to their best ability.

 

For students with learning disabilities (and other documented situations) there are MODIFIED diplomas... but for a general STATE ISSUED diploma to be awarded the diploma would be meaningless if not set to a standard.

[razorbackmama]

nclb mandates that they receive the help they need in school. Is that not happening? Or is she trying to sell more help, privately?

Oh goodness no they aren't receiving the help they need in school. They aren't being left behind, but that's because they are just passing the kids through to the next grade without doing anything to help. It's an extreme case, but one student she tutored had graduated from high school and could not read. Period.

 

There are a million reasons why a student would need remedial instruction-- not limited to: Learning disabilities, emotional trauma, poor instruction, unwillingness or rebellion of student...

 

At the high school level giving credit for 'remedial instruction/tutoring' is like giving credit for 'Underwater Basket Weaving'... it would be a meaningless elective and would not fulfill the state minimum graduation requirements which contain SPECIFIC levels of instruction (core subjects).

 

Remedial instruction would be instruction in a core concept area.

 

Giving a student credit for remedial instruction in math (as an elective) would not make a difference unless the student could pass the ACTUAL core class (a true credit).

 

The student would not 'graduate' (receive a state diploma) unless the core requirements were met-- even if they have 1000 credits in Underwater Basket Weaving.

 

A student doing 5th grade math should not earn high school 'credit' for that level even if it is to their best ability.

 

For students with learning disabilities (and other documented situations) there are MODIFIED diplomas... but for a general STATE ISSUED diploma to be awarded the diploma would be meaningless if not set to a standard.

This is how I feel as well, and I think, ultimately, how this tutor feels as well. I think that's why she asking for my input...how might she go about tutoring these kids in such a way as to have it be "worth" something? I don't know that it's actually possible, for the reasons you stated. When we talked I told her the most that I could come up with was an elective of some sort.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Oh goodness no they aren't receiving the help they need in school. They aren't being left behind, but that's because they are just passing the kids through to the next grade without doing anything to help. It's an extreme case, but one student she tutored had graduated from high school and could not read. Period.

 

This is how I feel as well, and I think, ultimately, how this tutor feels as well. I think that's why she asking for my input...how might she go about tutoring these kids in such a way as to have it be "worth" something? I don't know that it's actually possible, for the reasons you stated. When we talked I told her the most that I could come up with was an elective of some sort.

 

I think she can emphasize the fact that students who can read will have higher test scores, better grades and an easier time completing required courses. That they will get more out of their hours in school and possibly need less time to complete the assignments for their classes.

[Nscribe]

I really struggle to see the medium via which your friend will be able to provide service as described for high school credit. It takes parents and students willing to realize the value is intrinsic.

 

Frankly, what you have described is parents who have allowed their kids to be socially promoted. Yes, the schools do it, but the parents see it happen and allow it. I can imagine the parents saying, "we know DC needs remediation, but we are so pressed for time now we can't manage it unless it somehow provides credit." But, what they are really saying is, "I would rather my DC graduate on time than learn."