Nonverbal Learning Disorder?

[Paige]

Can you talk to me about Nonverbal Learning Disorder? I'm going to ask my son's Dr about this next time I go in but I thought I'd get some perspective here too. He has been diagnosed ADD and OCD but the ADD never seemed like a good fit. He was not an ADD young child at all but he has always been obviously different from other kids. He does not fit the criteria for autism or aspergers at all. He has had his IQ tested a few times and every time there has been a surprisingly large discrepancy between his nonverbal skills and other skills every time. The gap has averaged about 50 points. We haven't received any feedback about this gap except that it is unusual and interesting. I was wondering what sort of treatment and interventions are done for nonverbal learning disorder and if anything has helped?

 

I read through an information sheet on NVLD and DS seems to fit everything except he does not have poor math skills. He is actually very good in math. Our psychiatrist mentioned that based on his testing he should be poor in math, but he excels in it. Similarly, based on his scores, he should excel in reading comprehension and similar areas, but he struggles with that the most. Most teachers and doctors who meet him think he is gifted until he is tested and then he scores as high average. I believe the nonverbal scores are significantly bringing the rest of his score down, so maybe he is twice exceptional and that explains his math ability.

 

I also read that NVLD is rather new. Is this a controversial diagnosis that we are likely to have problems with the insurance about or is it widely accepted as valid? Thanks.

[TippyCanoe]

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[VBCaroline]

My 16 yo dd came across your post and asked me to respond with the following list of computer helps she has compiled. She is also interested in corresponding with other teenage girls who have NLD. Please send me a PM. Thanks!! Caroline

 

 

Hi!

 

I am a 16 year old girl living with NLD. Consequently, I have done quite a bit of resource-scouting. The following (very) lengthy list is the result. My language arts standardized testing scores are all high, but my reading comprehension is just a little lower. I think this is partly because I usually need to hear a text to get the most out of it, and partly because reading "between the lines" is hard. The Chrome extension "Speakit" described below has enabled me to hear whatever webpage I need to hear. I also read my science lessons out loud to myself.

List of helpful resources for the NLD/ASD/AD(H)D student:

1.Google Chrome—Chrome is the must-have internet browser for all students. It is sleek and doesn’t look as “busy†as Firefox or Internet Explorer. It is also a lot faster than either of them. This reduces frustration and impatience while waiting for the page to load. In addition to all the features that are already included in your standard Chrome browser, there are many more useful functions that can be added by installing extensions from the Chrome Web Store (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/home?utm_source=chrome-ntp-icon). As a side note, Chrome extensions are TONS easier to install. You don’t have to restart anything, as is necessary in Firefox. This minimizes frustration.

2.Clearly—this Chrome extension sweeps a white panel across your entire screen, leaving behind an add-free experience with customizable text size and style. I find this helpful because it de-clutters the screen, making focusing on my work easier. Ads can be distracting! Also, I like the ability to enlarge the text, because I have less issues with eye tracking (I sometimes accidentally skip lines of text or lose my place when I am reading.)

3.Speakit!—this Chrome extension reads your text aloud for you…if you don’t mind the mechanical, TTS sound. (Actually, the iSpeech voices that are used are more realistic than any I’ve heard before.) Just select the text you wish it to read, then click the little button! You can also pause it. This is a convenient extension for me because my highly auditory brain gets more from my reading when I listen to it. More of it “sticks†in my head. I often use this in conjunction with Clearly.

4.RememberTheMilk— Located at www.rememberthemilk.com, this is a free online calendar service packed with more features than any other calendar available for free on the web. One of the best features is the reminders, which you can set to remind you through email, GoogleTalk, Skype, AIM, and many more popular online chat services. Other features include repeating tasks and priority labels. Your account even comes with a specific email address. You can email tasks using this address right to your RTM inbox! All this comes with a simple, user friendly interface that makes planning and viewing events and tasks super easy. This has been useful to me because I need a way to keep track of all my homework due dates and other engagements…but I was reluctant to keep a paper calendar due to my dysgraphia (Difficulty writing clearly and comfortably at a normal speed).

5.Things to Do—this extension replaces your new tab page on Chrome with a very simple task list. I list all my school subjects in it, and check them off when I am done with them. This helps me stay on track during a school day.

6.Full Screen Mode—Full screen is my best friend. I go full screen whenever possible, whether I am in literature class, reading a webpage for an assignment, or watching a video. Many video sites such as YouTube and Vimeo have a full screen button. The keyboard shortcut for viewing Chrome web pages in full screen is F11. To go back a page in this mode, just use your Backspace key.

Hope this helps!

Lynne

[Mandamom]

I work with several students who have been diagnosed and a few I suspect are on the NVLD spectrum (if there's such a thing) because they seem to be similar in learning style as those who are diagnosed. Some are also diagnosed with dyslexia or with MERD (language disorder). I think it is a diagnosis that isn't often considered by those that could diagnose it. For some I think the appeal of a high verbal score (which is where school success is typically measured) makes people forget that there is a lot of non-verbal skills that are needed for academic, social and professional success. JMO.

 

 

 

Anyway, where I can I encourage them to use their strength (verbal) and teach them to self-talk their way through math problems. I do social coaching to help them understand the social cues that they might miss. Teaching them to visualize (using visualizing and Verbalizing) has been helpful in improving reading comprehension scores.

 

I hope by bumping maybe others will throw in their experiences.

[DyslexicParent]

A psychologist recommended the book Helping a Child with Nonverbal Learning Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome by Kathryn Stewart. Has anybody here read it yet?

[Reya]

NVLD is what a LOT of the kids getting labeled with autism spectrum disorders these days really have, FWIW. They really aren't much alike, but kids get misdiagnosed all the time, anyway. ADHD is the second most common misdiagnosis.

[SadieMarie]

My seven year old was diagnosed with NLD. My understanding is that sometimes the poor math skills do not become apparent until Algebra. NLD is different for every child as far as in what areas they are affected and to what degree. For example, they can often have gross motor problems, but my dd does not have that. The biggest indicator is if there is a discrepancy between performance and verbal IQ. My dd's math skills are average and her language skills in the superior range. So it is this huge discrepancy not that she has extremely poor math skills.

[Splash]

My son has had NLD diagnosis along with ADHD and Developmental Dyspraxia depends on which specialist and year. Who knows what really is the issue. I've read everything in print. I'll have to check bookcase to see which book you're referring to and let you know if I found it helpful or not. DH works for UPS and ids currently sleeping in room with all my books.

[geodob]

Behind Non-Verbal and Verbal Learning, is the fact that we have 3 distinct cognitive thinking processes.

Auditory, Visual and Spacial.

Where thinking uses various combinations of them.

Where Auditory, Visual and Spacial, each use their own regions of the brain, and go through their own unique developmental process.

Along with the development of their integration with each other.

Though developmental delays can occur with any of these 3 thinking process?

But what I would like to highlight, is that grouping these 3 distinct cognitive processes into Verbal and Non-Verbal?

Causes great confusion.

Where Non-Verbal actually refers to the combined use of Visual and Spacial thinking.

Which is equal to a combined test of Auditory and Visual thinking?

That just diagnoses an Auditory-Visual Disorder.

That doesn't clarify whether it is an Auditory or Visual Disorder?

Could be Deaf or Blind?

But the Reading Test could only diagnose an Auditory/ Visual Disorder?

 

So that my concern is that the current Non-Verbal or Perceptual Reasoning tests. Need to separately test Visual and Spacial cognition.

Which in turn, identifies at which stage a development in delay may have occurred?

[Paige]

Thank you for all the information and ideas. Now, we have a diagnosis of mild hearing loss, which I am sure is exacerbating the issue. It's hard to tell how much is behavioral and how much is just plain not hearing. He can hear but his hearing loss is such that in busier environments he will miss words and be a little behind because it will take him longer to decipher what he has heard. We are going to speak to a specialist about whether or not he would benefit from a hearing aid.

 

I am going to get some of those books for myself for Christmas. I spoke to the doctors and they agree with me but our doctors said it is outside of their professional expertise. Our insurance specifically excludes testing for learning disabilities, so we'd have to pay out of pocket to see the people who could really help. I am going to try and read and help him on my own for now.

 

I don't think he will have trouble with understanding math later. I was gifted in math as a kid (although I hated it) and he blows me away. He just gets it so easily. His problem is more of performance rather than conceptual in that he makes mistakes when he records it on paper or is tested. He will verbally give the right answer, but then will circle the wrong answer. The tester told me this was an example of his nonverbal problems. I wonder about dyspraxia too. He is constantly choosing the wrong word or finding out that words do not mean what he thinks they do. It is usually small things like thinking the words casual and normal mean the same thing but these are things I don't see other kids doing often.

[SadieMarie]

The thing about NLD, and I see this very clearly with my child, is that she does not process visual information easily. She doesn't learn by observation. She needs verbal explanations. Things kids pick up by watching others, she misses. She can understand if she has a verbal explanation. She doesn't miss everything visually, but a lot of it goes right by her. So if she had a hearing loss on top of it, well that would be really frustrating and difficult for her. She also doesn't generalize information from one setting to the next very well. She is very into language and has a huge vocabulary. if she hears a word she doesn't know she wants the definition. Homonyms fascinate her, word play of any kind really. Puns are big fun lol. There are people with NLD who do well with math but that would be an exception, a small minority I think. Because rote memorization is usually a strength that is how they often get through math, memorizing the rules and steps of solving a problem, without really understanding why they work.

[geodob]

Though a major difference between arithmetic and algebra? Is that algebra uses sequential thinking.

Where perhaps the major impact of NLD, is its effect on sequential thinking?

Sequential thinking uses 'reversability' in thinking.

Perhaps you might consider how you identify a sequence? Where it can't be identified in a step by step process, from beginning to end?

Rather it involves thinking back and forth, to recognize the sequence.

 

Though sequential thinking is also termed as Pattern thinking.

Where the ability to recognize and then repeat a Pattern? Is a good test of sequential thinking.

[SadieMarie]

What I have read is that is mostly a problem with abstract thinking that causes problems with higher mathematics.