OhElizabeth are you out there? HELP!

[dancer67]

Gosh darn it, I have been looking back at our conversations. I know we had a discussion about Lit Anlaysis for my 8th grader. For some reason, I decided to forgo it, and I can't remember why????:confused:

My line up is in my siggy. Does WWS cover lit analysis? Is this why we discussed not doing a formal lit program?

I am panicking. We are starting school tomorrow!!! I thought I was going to purchase Figuratively Speaking. I don't know why?? UGH, I feel so stupid now.

We are also using Notgrass ATB which does have lit. But no formal lit analysis.

Or I think we may have discussed just talking about the books and waiting until high school for formal lit?

Would it be to much to add in FS?

Sorry..........................:willy_nilly:

And thank you!

[Mom22ns]

Not Elizabeth, but WWS has only a tiny bit on lit analysis at the end. I wouldn't count it. I don't know what FS is, Figuratively Speaking? I haven't used it so I can't comment on if it would be too much. You could consider just adding a few lit guides for books that you are already doing for ATB.

[fiddle]

We just got FS and it is broken up into very small lessons- about 40 of them. You could easily add this into your mix ;) Lori D. responded to my post earlier on trying to do something other than a formal lit program, and she gave great suggestions and summaries of the various lit guides, etc. I decided to do FS this year with my 7th grader and select various lit titles to "do" literary analysis on. For our first one we're going with a Progeny Press lit guide on Tom Sawyer.

 

Teaching the Classics is another great option, if you want to learn how to have discussions on lit and pick your own w/out doing "formal" literary analysis. I didn't opt for that because I don't have a lot of time to invest in watching the DVDs right now, but I still may break down after the New Year if I have time:D

 

SWB also has great question on literary analysis for middle school years. Again, I'd search here for my post and Lori D.'s response- it was awesome;)

 

Paula

[dancer67]

So you are doing FS, PLUS a PP guide?

 

Will look up that post, and thank you!

[PeterPan]

Well I'm probably not the best one to answer you, since my own ideas are so formative. Really though, I'm not convinced that a literature legos approach turns out more engaged readers who enjoy and appreciate the lit. It can for certain kids or types of thinkers, and it can be useful to some people to know the lego approach. But there's so much more out there, and at this stage of life I'd much rather make sure she's ENGAGED with the literature. Right now she's reading through *everything* ever written by Tolkien (I kid you not), passionately trying to sort through his influences and where he was going with it. I think I'll stop that and tell her to read Robinson Crusoe because a guide said so. :lol:

 

Also, the feedback I'm getting is that colleges are flexing their freshman lit classes and tailoring them to methods of analysis that fit the major and future use of the student. So I'm not sure it's accurate to assume that *all* students need to go through the *same* type of literary analysis. I think it's useful to have some exposure to the legos of lit at some point, yes, but I still think it's more important to have someone who is ENGAGED and thinking with the literature on some level. After all, WTM suggests reading a genre through time critically. Ie. there's more than one way to look at literature, and the lego approach is only one way.

 

If you've already got literature in NG ATB, why not milk that? Those will be popular books, so you'll be able to find guides online easily. FS is fine, have it. Guess you can tell I'm so-so about it. But like I said, I'm much more concerned about having my READER read and think about the works in context, compare and contrast in context, look for themes in context. I don't anticipate a lego approach is really going to float her boat. For her it's more an exercise in logic (pick a term, define it, give examples, blah blah). That has it's use and we'll do it. I actually have my eye on the BJU lit 10 (new edition) as an option. I like the way they take their lit into historical context in their 11 and 12 texts, so I was thinking it might be good to do the 9 +/or 10 to get her situated for that.

 

I have the first EiL book, and I like it. Like I said though, it's the type of process she already goes through because she's engaged, because she's researching what the context was. I don't really feel like I should stop her current engagement to tell her to pursue someone else's, kwim? It just didn't seem timely or sensible.

 

I'm just not worried about it. She's reading a lot, writing more, and we're getting her where I want her.

 

As far as you, um, hadn't you decided on FS? I can't remember. You'd probably do well just to get your current schedule up and decide. I've been ramping up slowly, just letting our year come together. You don't have to do everything perfectly the first week. But you know that. :)

[fiddle]

So you are doing FS, PLUS a PP guide

 

Yes, but at a very gentle pace. I threw out the formal lit program because I want to focus more on writing this year, but wanted to give a more gentle introduction and for her to be able to work at her own pace, KWIM? My goal is 2 or 3 books with lit guides, but if we don't do all that, that's OK. She's in 7th- we've got awhile. I know that a lot of people recommend Teaching the Classics and Windows to the World for 9th grade, so middle school is really just a gentle exposure to a more formal lit analysis, and I agree with OhE that preserving the LOVE of books at this stage is far more productive than overloading them with formal lit analysis.

 

Paula

[Cosmos]

Well I'm probably not the best one to answer you, since my own ideas are so formative. Really though, I'm not convinced that a literature legos approach turns out more engaged readers who enjoy and appreciate the lit. It can for certain kids or types of thinkers, and it can be useful to some people to know the lego approach.

 

Sorry to interrupt, but legos approach? I'm not familiar with this term.

[dancer67]

OhElizabeth:

Thank you for that very insightful post. Like the above PP said, what do you mean about the "lego approach"?

 

Yes, we have Lit in ATB. No analysis, just comp questions. I have FS. might use it.

 

So are you saying that Lit Analysis is better, or should I say, more useful in the high school years?

 

She reads everything under the sun. Many books she has read, is on the high school list. She understands them as we discuss them.

 

My biggest thing right now is writing. She looked at WWS 1 and told me it was easy..........LOL. She did one lesson and already she is double thinking that "easy" statement.:D

[PeterPan]

By legos I meant pulling it apart into little pieces, fragmenting it to the point where they forget that there was a whole and that they could actually ENJOY it. It's just something I'm thinking about. Maybe it's not a concern to anyone else.

 

WWS1 is going ok for us. I made lesson plans ahead of time (put into my ipad) to clump the lessons, because I didn't want it to get tedious. The feedback I've seen is that it's only fault is getting tedious, and I figured if she went fast and hard, she wouldn't have time to notice any tedium. So there you go, my theory. We've been doing it a few weeks now, and she's in week 5 of it I think. That's not very far, so we'll see how it goes. She's having this learning curve of how to intersect with the materials. The highlighting I'm doing helps, but she also just plain needs to talk it through with me. But that gradual sequential building that some people decry is actually sort of turning out to be good for her. It's making the steps small and easier for her to grasp when she reads (in her usual impulsive and unthorough way) through the instructions. So I'm happy with it so far. My *goal* is for her to finish in Jan/Feb. when the printed version of WWS2 comes out (hopefully?). I haven't heard any firm dates, but that's when it came out last year, right? I definitely don't want to screw around with the beta, even though it's free. It's working much better for us to have the printed version.

 

So yes, WWS actually is easy for this age, but it has lots of little details and requires some thought. I highlight the important bits ahead of time to make sure she catches them when she reads. We had a thread talking about this. Apparently I'm not the only one. :)

Edited September 11, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[dancer67]

Well, my 8th grader does not think WWS1 is easy at all. She *thought* it looked easy when she looked through it. First lesson, she didn't think it was so easy.:lol:

 

Thanks for the lego explanation, makes perfect sense:grouphug:

[PeterPan]

Well, my 8th grader does not think WWS1 is easy at all. She *thought* it looked easy when she looked through it. First lesson, she didn't think it was so easy.:lol:

 

Thanks for the lego explanation, makes perfect sense:grouphug:

 

Maybe try the highlighter thing? I go through the entire lesson ahead of time and highlight the key points I want her to see. Makes it idiotproof and lets it go faster. There's a lot on the page there and a LOT of words saying it. It overwhelmed me, so it's no wonder it overwhelms some of the kids! The concepts are simple, so my goal with the highlighting is to make sure she sees the point and gets to it quickly without getting frustrated. And I accept imperfect work. After all, I think some of this is just personal to how they think. She thinks in impulsive chicken scratch, just like she writes. :) I only need her to sound like Tolkien at the end, not all the way. :D

[Laura in STL]

By legos I meant pulling it apart into little pieces, fragmenting it to the point where they forget that there was a whole and that they could actually ENJOY it. It's just something I'm thinking about. Maybe it's not a concern to anyone else.

 

This is definitely a concern of mine as well. SWB addresses this concern when she encourages us NOT to have them talk or write about every book they read. I actually like FS for this very reason, because it separates the learning of lit anal terms from the reading of whole literature. We started using FS this year, and we do it at a completely different time of the day than our lit readings. I also like that it uses examples from good literature to illustrate terms. We do it mostly aloud, and we create electronic flashcards of the terms. My dd 5th and ds 7th are actually using the terms irl which is fun to witness. Dd has been picking out every idiom we use in conversation since we learned that term. Also both have stopped me while reading aloud from The Hobbit to point out possible foreshadowing and use of imagery. For us FS would be tedious and too workbooky if we wrote out the work, but it fits well orally.

 

I'm also a fan of TtC. We don't use a story map for every book we read, but when I want to discuss a book, it's a great tool to help my dc get the big picture before we discuss. The Socratic questions in the TtC book are helpful for discussion, or for dc to read and think about on their own. My oldest is doing the online class offered by Adam and Missy Andrews this year, and I can't wait to see how that goes! We watched his Wind in the Willows DVD discussion, and both dc really liked him.

[PeterPan]

Laura, I wasn't ignoring you here! I've just been thinking. I wrote down all the terms from the BJU10, and I think I'll go see if I can find my FS to compare. Yes, we saw AA at the convention, and he was a hoot! I checked into their classes, but I don't think it's a format that would work well for my dd. I'm toying around with some ideas though. Partly I just needed to see how this school year would come together and what we would have time for, what the balance would be.

 

Well I better go look for FS! It's buried somewhere in my closet. I don't think it's what I want, but you never know...

[Holly IN]

Ok what is FS? Doing a search on all WWS posts for high school. For some reason this thread popped up.

 

Holly

[TarynB]

Ok what is FS? Doing a search on all WWS posts for high school. For some reason this thread popped up.

 

Holly

 

Here FS is Figuratively Speaking.

[ElaineJ]

I do have Figuratively Speaking, but I have found it pretty useless. (No offence to those who have enjoyed it; different things work for different kids.) the reason it hasn't worked for us is that it takes all of the ideas out of the context of actually encountering them in a work of literature. I personally really enjoy literary analysis, but for me that is because it is simply the process of reading deeper into some amazing stories. I think what we want to do is give our kids some additional tools to do that. I like the Windows to the World material because I think it is better at connecting these tools to their uses by enjoying real short stories in the process, not just talking a look at the tools themselves with a magnifying glass. It also helps kids to communicate their discoveries and enjoyment clearly in writing, which is an important writing skill. Just my thoughts- Elaine