In determining goals for the upcoming year, a question...why study algebra???

[Sumiller]

In years past with my two oldest children, my 'goals' always focused more on what is necessary for graduation (i.e. what boxes need to be checked off for credit to fulfill requirements). This year, actually over just the past few days, my thoughts for my youngest center more on the 'why do we need to study _____ (fill in blank w/class)?'

 

Now, many of you are probably shaking your head in astonishment thinking, 'boy is she late to the game'. And that is what I am feeling. Especially with this child. He has no direction for his future already figured out whereas the two oldest by this age knew what they wanted to do...or at least had an idea.

 

So, here I am, trying to determine what we need to accomplish for each given class/credit in order to fulfill our 'goal' not just to check off a box. In doing this, I began with algebra and quite honestly hit a wall. Why exactly do we need to study algebra? What do we gain from it? How is it used in daily life after high school/college? At the end of our study of algebra, what do we take away with us??

 

I googled that very question and came across this http://www.mathmedia.com/whystudal.html This article intrigued me and made sense but the last line from it (quoted below) really caught my attention.

 

 

"There are other disciplines, which will help build a better brain, but curriculum designers have chosen learning algebra as a universal "brain builder" along with preparing those strong left-brain students for careers in math and science."

 

 

So now I wonder...what other disciplines benefit your brain development like algebra?? And is this the only reason we study it??

[regentrude]

Gotta run, so just a few quick thoughts:

 

Why exactly do we need to study algebra? What do we gain from it? How is it used in daily life after high school/college? At the end of our study of algebra, what do we take away with us?? ....

So now I wonder...what other disciplines benefit your brain development like algebra?? And is this the only reason we study it??

 

No, brain development is not the only reason to study algebra.

 

Algebra is needed for a systematic study of science, even at the high school level.

 

It is also the foundation for all of higher math. Even if the actress in the article did not use algebra in her daily life, not teaching it would mean to decide at age 13 that the student will not be able to choose a science or engineering major (and even medical, vet and dentist school require algebra based science courses) should she so decide - because she would not be prepared.

To me, this would be a sufficient justification for algebra in high school, because my goal for high school is to prepare my students to pursue whatever major they choose. It is about options, about opening doors.

 

As for the practical applications of algebra, you should search the archives; this has been discussed frequently, and I have not time to list examples now.

Just one example: everybody who takes loans and mortgages should be able to figure out, and understand, compound interest which requires an understanding of the exponential function, an algebra 2 topic. Looking at the financial behavior of people it is very clear to me that more education is in order.

 

ETA: Foreign language study and music are also excellent for brain development. But that's not the main reason to study them either.

Edited August 29, 2012 by regentrude

[magic]

Algebraic concepts are needed in many trades. My husband is a plumber and has to know how to figure out formulas to have the correct angles, lengths, diameters, etc. I know that algebra is also applied in construction, electrical, HVAC, painting, flooring, and more trades. I have needed to apply algebra when figuring out different foods for quantities of people, amount of space needed for a project, when figuring placement of landscaping, while calculating a modification in a sewing project, and many more times. Algebra is applied in many businesses- calculating projected sales, supply needs, inventory changes, depreciation, allowed travel expenses, and more.

 

I think many times, one does not realize how much basic algebra is used in life.

[Ellie]

IMHO, only because if he goes to college, he'll need it on the transcript. On the up side, if you don't do it at home, he can take it at the community college if he does decide to go to college.

 

And I won't debate this with anyone, because I've already been tromped on for saying it. My mind is unchanged. :D

[creekland]

For me, if I had been in a family that didn't believe in studying Algebra (and higher) I'd have missed out on my life's calling. My parents were both music instructors and had little interest in math. Once I hit 8th grade I discovered I loved the subject and never looked back. (I didn't particularly like math in earlier grades - it was rather boring to me. My love grew when it became "more interesting.")

 

We're all different - no sense in pigeon-holing a student when they are of high school age or younger. Give them diversity in subjects and let them see where their loves are as they age.

 

And yes, it's also good for brain development...

[dereksurfs]

Why study any subject in HS if the the child is not sure what he wants to do upon graduation? I mean seriously, you can go down the list of standard HS subjects and courses and wonder what it is really needed for in the first place? And the same can be asked in the first two years of college while completing one's 'general education' requirements as well. Personally I 'never' enjoyed History of any kind while in HS. Who cares what a bunch of old, dead people did anyway fighting wars which had little to do with my life at the time? It wasn't until later in life that my appreciation for it grew, at least to a degree. But did I need it to perform my job? No. The same can be said for foreign languages or music appreciation and on and on it goes.

 

Algebra, however, is so fundamental to all Secondary Math and Science that it is the most important math class a HS student will ever take. If they do nothing else in HS Math, Algebra should be the priortity IMO. This is assuming they don't have learning disabilites or handicaps because of down syndrome or other physical/mental disabilites which they were born with.

 

Most colleges and universities have this as a minimum standard for entry or higher anyway. Why limit a child before they are even are aware of what they may or may not want to do later in life? Interests and majors change as one matures as a young adult. These can take them in many different directions both scholastically and vocationally.

Edited August 29, 2012 by dereksurfs

[jennynd]

I uses algebra practically everyday at work

[css3238]

Algebra teaches how to take the specific and make it general, which is an unequivocally important skill. While the math of it teaches 5+2 = 2+5 means a+b = b+a (commutative property of addition), the skill that is ultimately being taught is deductive reasoning. Not to mention I reject the idea that you can go through life without ever using algebra. That argument is nonsensical on it's face.

[kiana]

Now, many of you are probably shaking your head in astonishment thinking, 'boy is she late to the game'. And that is what I am feeling. Especially with this child. He has no direction for his future already figured out whereas the two oldest by this age knew what they wanted to do...or at least had an idea.

 

Honestly, having no direction is a reason *to* study it. Not having had it will make a lot of potential college paths a lot longer. If he ends up wanting to study any science (including biology and geology), mathematics, engineering, computing, business, medicine, veterinary science, physical therapy, or probably others I've forgotten, he'll need to take math classes in college. If he needs to start in algebra 1, this'll put him taking 4 semesters of math before he gets to calculus, which can add time/stress to a degree and reduce electives.

 

Even if he's going to study history, art, english, or something else, he'll probably need to take a general education class which often has algebra as a prerequisite. At my university, students who place below college algebra (i.e. into algebra 1 or 2) need to take remedial classes before they can take the general education class. Although there are universities where courses in logic or something similar can be substituted, they are few and far between.

 

The only way I'd skip algebra would be if I had a student whom I was absolutely sure was not college bound.

[creekland]

I uses algebra practically everyday at work

 

Me too, but I teach it, so I might be an anomaly. Hubby, my engineer, uses Alg, Geometry, Trig, and sometimes Calc on a daily basis.

[Sumiller]

Thank you to all who responded. I guess I wasn't exactly clear in why I was asking. My brain has been mush lately from a lot going on in our lives and getting focused on the upcoming year has been real hard.

 

My asking 'why' had more to do with 'when he is done, what should he be able to do (practical application) with understanding'. In other words, I do see the benefit of studying algebra and he will be doing videotext algebra this coming year moving on to geometry next year so it's not a 'does he need to do algebra' but more of a 'what skills are we shooting for mastery of and how will he use them in the future'. This struggle with the 'why' of it is more for me. I have a really hard time motivating myself to do things just for the sake of doing them. I need to see the big picture before I can dig into the details. Otherwise, I just get lost in the details and quite honestly, even though things get done and maybe even done well...to me, there is something missing if I don't understand why it was done. Perhaps, if I use an example it will be clearer. When we study grammar, the end goal isn't to identify parts of speech in a sentence but to write well. This I get, it makes sense and satisfies that part of me that needs to know why I need to know what a direct object is and when am I ever going to use this information. Maybe for math (algebra on up), I just need to look at it this way...we study it so that if we desire to go into a math/science oriented field, we are prepared and if not, we have at the least, given our brain a good workout.

 

Finally, this whole thought process really is for my sake. My ds does well in math and likes it so it's not about him not wanting to do it. It's more for me as his teacher/advisor. I don't want my lack of seeing the big picture and therefore my lack of motivation when it gets difficult to affect/influence him. I know that if I understand the end goal, then I can encourage him when needed because I know there will be days when it will get hard and he will look at me and ask, "what is the point?" It is for those days that I want to be ready and prepared to show him the big picture.

 

I'm not sure that I'm even making any sense here because this is still being worked out in my own very tired brain. :001_smile:

 

Again, I want to thank everyone for your input because it really is helping me to work through this.

[WishboneDawn]

For me the big picture, all math applications aside, is to improve how I and my children think.

 

I floundered in math past grade 8 because I'd missed basic concepts in arithmatic and pre-algebra. Helping my kids learn those subjects had not only improved my math skills but improved my thinking in general. My logic is clearer, my thought processes more organized. I'm getting much better at explaining what's going on inside my head to others.

 

Now we're into algebra and doing all the things that seemed useless before. Catherine is memorizing properties and axioms - stuff that she knew intuitively before but couldn't communicate or explain. And it makes things clearer again. You know how SWB talks about helping kids get their their thoughts from inside their head onto paper (and that's why all the narration and dictation)? That's what I'm finding algebra is doing for my daughter and I.

 

It's also, in that respect, a fantastic complement to the other subjects she's studying like grammar, Latin, writing. Part of that whole, it's part of the bigger picture of helping develop clearer, more disciplined thinkers. I don't think you could simply address logic or thinking skills by using a logic program (in fact we never have) but by addressing logic through different subjects, viewing it through different lenses, we're finding a lot of joy and success.

 

I'm probably not explaining this well (babies are a direct counter to the effects of algebra on thinking skills. :D) but I hope it helps.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thank you to all who responded. I guess I wasn't exactly clear in why I was asking. My brain has been mush lately from a lot going on in our lives and getting focused on the upcoming year has been real hard.

 

My asking 'why' had more to do with 'when he is done, what should he be able to do (practical application) with understanding'. In other words, I do see the benefit of studying algebra and he will be doing videotext algebra this coming year moving on to geometry next year so it's not a 'does he need to do algebra' but more of a 'what skills are we shooting for mastery of and how will he use them in the future'. This struggle with the 'why' of it is more for me. I have a really hard time motivating myself to do things just for the sake of doing them. I need to see the big picture before I can dig into the details. Otherwise, I just get lost in the details and quite honestly, even though things get done and maybe even done well...to me, there is something missing if I don't understand why it was done. Perhaps, if I use an example it will be clearer. When we study grammar, the end goal isn't to identify parts of speech in a sentence but to write well. This I get, it makes sense and satisfies that part of me that needs to know why I need to know what a direct object is and when am I ever going to use this information. Maybe for math (algebra on up), I just need to look at it this way...we study it so that if we desire to go into a math/science oriented field, we are prepared and if not, we have at the least, given our brain a good workout.

 

Finally, this whole thought process really is for my sake. My ds does well in math and likes it so it's not about him not wanting to do it. It's more for me as his teacher/advisor. I don't want my lack of seeing the big picture and therefore my lack of motivation when it gets difficult to affect/influence him. I know that if I understand the end goal, then I can encourage him when needed because I know there will be days when it will get hard and he will look at me and ask, "what is the point?" It is for those days that I want to be ready and prepared to show him the big picture.

 

I'm not sure that I'm even making any sense here because this is still being worked out in my own very tired brain. :001_smile:

 

Again, I want to thank everyone for your input because it really is helping me to work through this.

 

For us last year, it was the intricate word problems in AoPS and the figure based problems in the older Dolciani I have that helped me see when and where algebra gets used. Things like determining the area of various cross sections (applicable to things like piping) or the dreaded moving train problems (one of my favorites in AoPS involved escaping from a train that was going to run you over as you walked through a tunnel).

 

I think that one of the issues is that many people do actually use algebra skills but don't think of them as such. I found these articles helped my oldest son see that there was reason in studying quadratics.

[kiana]

My asking 'why' had more to do with 'when he is done, what should he be able to do (practical application) with understanding'. In other words, I do see the benefit of studying algebra and he will be doing videotext algebra this coming year moving on to geometry next year so it's not a 'does he need to do algebra' but more of a 'what skills are we shooting for mastery of and how will he use them in the future'. This struggle with the 'why' of it is more for me. I have a really hard time motivating myself to do things just for the sake of doing them. I need to see the big picture before I can dig into the details. Otherwise, I just get lost in the details and quite honestly, even though things get done and maybe even done well...to me, there is something missing if I don't understand why it was done. Perhaps, if I use an example it will be clearer. When we study grammar, the end goal isn't to identify parts of speech in a sentence but to write well. This I get, it makes sense and satisfies that part of me that needs to know why I need to know what a direct object is and when am I ever going to use this information. Maybe for math (algebra on up), I just need to look at it this way...we study it so that if we desire to go into a math/science oriented field, we are prepared and if not, we have at the least, given our brain a good workout.

 

 

Y'know, that kind of thing is really difficult to sum up. If you ask about any specific skill, I can either tell you what we use that skill for or that we don't really use it outside of technical fields but it's in the algebra course to provide an introduction for further study. But the whole course is a bit more difficult.

 

I've looked at this book before and thought it would be really helpful for answering those types of questions. Maybe it would be a worthwhile supplement for you, as the mom?

 

Disclaimer: I don't have this book yet. But it's not that expensive and I've heard really good things about it, and the preview was excellent. I'm going to buy it during my first year of teaching fulltime (hopefully coming up next year!)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Algebra-Edward-Zaccaro/dp/0967991528

[dereksurfs]

Y'know, that kind of thing is really difficult to sum up. If you ask about any specific skill, I can either tell you what we use that skill for or that we don't really use it outside of technical fields but it's in the algebra course to provide an introduction for further study. But the whole course is a bit more difficult.

 

I've looked at this book before and thought it would be really helpful for answering those types of questions. Maybe it would be a worthwhile supplement for you, as the mom?

 

Disclaimer: I don't have this book yet. But it's not that expensive and I've heard really good things about it, and the preview was excellent. I'm going to buy it during my first year of teaching fulltime (hopefully coming up next year!)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Algebra-Edward-Zaccaro/dp/0967991528

 

Oh wow, this book looks really good. I wonder how one might integrate it within a normal math program. I am even thinking of using it as a suppliment to Pre-Algebra. It looks like a great what to help kid 'see' abstract math in everyday life. This might be worth a separate thread to pose the question to the group.