Why am I making this so difficult? Writing for my 7th grader....

[Colleen]

Why now of all times, when faced with some Very Hard Things in life, am I waffling on curriculum?! Maybe the rethinking and researching is a means of escapism.:tongue_smilie: I've just decided to change up science for my rising 7th grader, and now I'm rethinking writing (and grammar, for that matter!).

 

Yes, I've done this (taught a 7th grader) twice before. Yes, it should be like riding a bike. And yet, circumstances and people change, kwim? I was able to get by with a mix of writing resources for my older two guys. We use Sonlight's history, and at times I pulled in their creative expression assignments. I had the boys work through "Jump In", and along with some online Bravewriter courses, they were pretty much set. I did delve into both Writing Strands and WriteShop back then, and both programs sent me running the other direction. Overall, this approach worked, but didn't enthuse me to the point of wanting to repeat it.

 

I don't want to be pulling from here & there this time around. And I want more hand-holding, which is why I bought Writing With Skill. I love SWB's presentation style and I'm attracted to the idea of WWS. I should probably stick with this plan. But WWS seems so weighty, and I worry that Luke ~ who may not be a natural writer, per se, but does need guidance ~ will bogged down by it.

 

On the other hand, I can't say I have any back-up plan. I'm solidly unimpressed by and unattracted to virtually all writing programs. So I should go with WWS and give myself permission to not be a slave to it, shouldn't I?

Umm...shouldn't I...?:001_huh:

Edited August 18, 2012 by Colleen

[Hoot]

Well, I would agree with you but I'm also in the waffling stage right now so I'm sure that doesn't hold much weight. :glare: I bought and love the look of WWS for DS13 too. The problem here is, he's already signed up to do IEW U.S. History Based Writing Lessons. We are starting Monday and I can't decide if I want to do BOTH or just skip WWS. It's driving me a little batty.

[lewelma]

Why now of all times, when faced with some Very Hard Things in life, am I waffling on curriculum?!

 

Will these Very Hard Things make it a requirement that they can do a writing curriculum independently, or will you have time for teaching them? The answer to this question will inform my answer.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Edited August 19, 2012 by lewelma

[Colleen]

 

Will these Very Hard Things make it a requirement that they can do a writing curriculum independently, or will you have time for teaching them? The answer to this question will inform my answer.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

 

I should have time to act as instructor, but always by 7th grade or so, my guys want (and I want them to have) a degree of independence.

[5 Hikers]

My 7th grade ds is enjoying WWS. It is fairly independent. My ds completed the first 3 weeks lessons in 15 minutes. Week 4 bumped up to about 25 minutes on Day 2 when we introduced outlining. I feel this is really a reasonable amount of time to spend on writing.

[lewelma]

I don't want to be pulling from here & there this time around. And I want more hand-holding, which is why I bought Writing With Skill. I love SWB's presentation style and I'm attracted to the idea of WWS. I should probably stick with this plan. But WWS seems so weighty, and I worry that Luke ~ who may not be a natural writer, per se, but does need guidance ~ will bogged down by it.

 

Unless your ds is ready for a serious study of persuasive writing (if so use LToW), then WWS or IEW are probably your best bets. IEW is nice because they have products that extend all the way through high school level so you would have continuity. Its focus is on the standard 5 paragraph essay, whereas WWS's focus is on advanced paragraph types (scientific description, biographical sketch, etc). Both do basic research papers and literary analysis. And both are very, very clear as to what is expected in structure, but IEW definitely does more work on style. WWS and IEW do NOT overlap in content. IEW does not cover the paragraph types at all (I have not seen the high school material), but WWS does take the paragraphs types you learn to write and build them into essays. So from my point of view WWS creates more mature writers. IEW, however, is much more accessible to a writing-phobic student.

 

WWS has a lot of words because it is explaining everything so that a kid can be pretty independent. My ds does not mind reading it and it does not take too long. But we are definitely adapting it. The reason I asked you about your available time is that I have been adapting WWS1 to be like the text that SWB wants to write in a few years:

A "WWS handbook," like the WWE core text, that outlines the basic requirements for each year but allows you to choose from your own materials.

 

Each week I study what exactly each paragraph type is trying to accomplish and how it is to be formulated. Sometimes, I just teach him directly, then have him outline the example from day 1, and then write about a topic of his own choosing rather than what is in the book. For week 28 he was not very interested in Caesar, so we are substituting the Wright Brothers. He will still be writing a chronological narrative with a place description and person description paragraphs included. This method requires that *I* study up and then teach rather than him wading through the material, but then *he* has to do all the writing independently. We don't do this for all weeks, but definitely on the weeks when he is otherwise busy/stressed or when I expect the material to be particularly difficult or the topic to be uninteresting to him. This approach sometimes means that I have to jump ahead a bit and teach him how to find material or how to take notes, but SWB gets to that eventually so who really cares if we go a bit out of order. It also allows more of his natural skill to show through because he is not working from her notes on a topic that he may know little about.

 

Just another way of doing things. We are definitely not slaves to WWS, nor do I think that SWB would want us to be.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited August 19, 2012 by lewelma

[lewelma]

My 7th grade ds is enjoying WWS. It is fairly independent. My ds completed the first 3 weeks lessons in 15 minutes. Week 4 bumped up to about 25 minutes on Day 2 when we introduced outlining. I feel this is really a reasonable amount of time to spend on writing.

 

My ds in 6th grade required 4 to 5 hours per week to work through WWS. However, he is a slow writer and at the time was not typing.

[5 Hikers]

My ds in 6th grade required 4 to 5 hours per week to work through WWS. However, he is a slow writer and at the time was not typing.

 

I meant each lesson took 15 minutes, so I guess for the week we spent 1 hour. He has been on the computer since he was 3, and is a great typer.

 

I can see that 5 hours a week would be too much!

[lewelma]

I meant each lesson took 15 minutes, so I guess for the week we spent 1 hour. He has been on the computer since he was 3, and is a great typer.

 

I can see that 5 hours a week would be too much!

 

Not too much for us since he did not do a lot of other writing last year. But JTLYK in previous threads, 4 hours per week has been pretty standard for 5th and 6th graders. It also depends on how much style and editing you are expecting. I have posted about 20 of my ds's compositions on the WWS thread on the writing workshop board: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=325945

 

Also, most people have found that the time required for each "day" varies quite dramatically. 15 minutes for some 2 hours for others.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Colleen]

Unless your ds is ready for a serious study of persuasive writing (if so use LToW), then WWS or IEW are probably your best bets.

 

IEW is one of those aforementioned programs with which I'm solidly unimpressed.:)

 

The reason I asked you about your available time is that I have been adapting WWS1 to be like the text that SWB wants to write in a few years...We are definitely not slaves to WWS, nor do I think that SWB would want us to be.

 

You're right there. Thanks, Ruth, for sharing more about WWS and how you approach it. Very helpful!

[LindaOz]

This may or may not be of any help, but I have been reading about a homeschooling mom of 8 whose college age kids are doing really well (and one apparently got a perfect SAT score). She says that she had her older kids write regularly - two or three times per week - about their own topics but using vocab words. She had them select 5 or so of their vocab words each time and write a paper that included them. Her goal was not to give writing instruction but to have the kids develop confidence and fluency in writing along with enjoyment.

 

So, a couple of weeks ago my 6th grader didn't know what to write in her free-writing time so I told her to choose 4 words from her spelling/vocab program and use them in a page of writing. Well, she came back with a beautiful piece of writing. Having a few words to work with obviously inspired her.

 

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that idea in the hat as something possibly to try. I think I'll be doing it a bit more often. :001_smile:

[Thea]

Write Shop. I loved Write Shop. I tried everything (well, it felt like I tried everything).

 

IEW- fail

Writing Strands- fail

SL writing - fail

Moving Beyond the Page - fail

Wordsmith- fail

[Colleen]

This may or may not be of any help, but I have been reading about a homeschooling mom of 8 whose college age kids are doing really well (and one apparently got a perfect SAT score). She says that she had her older kids write regularly - two or three times per week - about their own topics but using vocab words. She had them select 5 or so of their vocab words each time and write a paper that included them. Her goal was not to give writing instruction but to have the kids develop confidence and fluency in writing along with enjoyment.

 

So, a couple of weeks ago my 6th grader didn't know what to write in her free-writing time so I told her to choose 4 words from her spelling/vocab program and use them in a page of writing. Well, she came back with a beautiful piece of writing. Having a few words to work with obviously inspired her.

 

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that idea in the hat as something possibly to try. I think I'll be doing it a bit more often. :001_smile:

 

Thanks, Linda! At times, I ask each boy to come up with a word or two and then have them freewrite using that set of words. It's interesting to compare how they each use the words! I hadn't thought of having them select vocab or spelling words; that's another good one to add to the mix.:)

[Colleen]

Write Shop. I loved Write Shop. I tried everything (well, it felt like I tried everything).

 

WriteShop (along with Writing Strands and Wordsmith) is one that leaves me non-plussed. Maybe I just need to lower my standards.;)

[ktgrok]

There is also Essentials in Writing. Very independent.

[Colleen]

 

There is also Essentials in Writing. Very independent.

This looks good, but I prefer programs that aren't DVD-based. Thanks for your post!:)

 

[lewelma]

Have you considered following a guide but not using a curriculum? I have the Webster's New World Student Writing Handbook that explains and gives examples for all different 1) types of writing like precis, term paper, and literary analysis, and 2) methods of development like narrative, definition, analogy, and compare/contrast. I have considered just having my son practice each type of writing until I felt he had mastered it.

 

Ruth in NZ

[DB in NJ]

"Why," you ask? Because without exception, homeschool writing materials miss the mark. They are either too light, too heavy, too simplistic, too detailed, too narrow, too broad.

 

No advice here, but it's good to see you again!

Edited August 21, 2012 by DB in NJ

[Momling]

Have you considered looking into writing textbooks intended for remedial Or ESL community college students? I find they are much more direct than those aimed at the homeschool market and they tend to be organized in a way that makes sense to me. With my 5th grader, I've used an old copy of "First Steps in Academic Writing" by Ann Hogue and will start "Introduction to Academic Writing" next. I also have Write Start and Composing with Confidence and a number of other books and I'll probably use them eventually. Old editions are really cheap, so it might be worth checking them out.

[Colleen]

Have you considered following a guide but not using a curriculum? I have the Webster's New World Student Writing Handbook that explains and gives examples for all different 1) types of writing like precis, term paper, and literary analysis, and 2) methods of development like narrative, definition, analogy, and compare/contrast. I have considered just having my son practice each type of writing until I felt he had mastered it.

 

I think this would work well for people who comfortably teach writing. I do like having more structure, even if I tweak it. I'll likely do that with WWS.

[Colleen]

"Why," you ask? Because without exception, homeschool writing materials miss the mark. They are either too light, too heavy, too simplistic, too detailed, too narrow, too broad.

 

No advice here, but it's good to see you again!

 

Hello, long lost friend! Nice to have our paths cross.:)

 

Have you considered looking into writing textbooks intended for remedial Or ESL community college students? I find they are much more direct than those aimed at the homeschool market and they tend to be organized in a way that makes sense to me. With my 5th grader, I've used an old copy of "First Steps in Academic Writing" by Ann Hogue and will start "Introduction to Academic Writing" next. I also have Write Start and Composing with Confidence and a number of other books and I'll probably use them eventually. Old editions are really cheap, so it might be worth checking them out.

 

Interesting thought! Yes, there's something to be said for a good ol' basic text, isn't there?

[birchbark]

Colleen, have you looked at Understanding Writing? I was also unimpressed with all writing programs until I found this. We will be using it for the first time this year, so I can't comment with experience yet.

[Mamagistra]

No advice, Colleen, but I wanted to say hello! :001_smile: I hope you and yours are doing well.

[DB in NJ]

Colleen, have you looked at Understanding Writing? I was also unimpressed with all writing programs until I found this. We will be using it for the first time this year, so I can't comment with experience yet.

 

Not Colleen, but I have wondered about this for years. Wish I could see more samples.