Can you help me think this through (about the vandalized house in Flint, very long)

[hana]

I know that often after something goes wrong, people make poor choices and things spiral even more out of control, so I'm hoping for help thinking this through.

 

At the end of July, our vacant (yes, we now regret that!) house in Flint that is for sale (we're at the point of accepting almost any offer--it doesn't appear that local organizations are interested in donations, as some suggested--there are just too many houses) was vandalized--all the pipes (basement, kitchen, bathrooms) were stolen.

 

Since then, it has been broken into again, and the washer and dryer stolen. I fear the kitchen appliances and the radiators will be next. We have had a contractor install alarms, but I think most thieves around here know how to get around them.

 

The insurance adjuster is working to deny the claim, based on the house being vacant too long (over 60 days). It wasn't, but I'm not sure how we can prove that. We were there until about 28 days before the vandalism. He has requested our utility bills, which we have provided. They do show lower usage, but the usage is consistent with the season last year.

 

So, now, 60 days will be up August 29. We expected to be back a few days before that (we are on summer vacation out of the country). We intended to live there until December (when my partner retires), or until we sell it. Obviously, it would be difficult to live there right now because there is no running water. We do have another place we can stay, so we don't need the insurance company to pay "additional expenses," but if we're not actually staying in the house, I'm afraid he'll count it toward the vacant time.

 

However, I'm really freaked out and trying to figure out what we can do to prevent further vandalism and to keep the adjuster from denying the claim for false reason.

 

Also, I want to get things fixed, because I doubt we'll have any offers as is.

 

So, here are some things I'm thinking about:

 

1. We were going to just stay in the house with minimal furnishings. Now, we're going to buy or rent furnishings. This is a definite, assuming the adjuster settles the claim so we can get running water.

 

2. I could go back to the house next week to re-establish occupancy. But how--we have no running water. I'm hoping my presence around the house would put off vandals, but I don't know if this is reasonable. Is this worth it? Its a 15-hr. drive or a $500 flight.

 

3. We could rent a car to park in the driveway to make the house look occupied and to block easy entrance. But this would cost at least $250/wk. We don't know anyone with an extra car to park there. (We've asked around.)

 

4. I don't know--any other ideas?

 

None of this is the end of the world--we are all healthy and relationships are okay (knocking on wood), but it has been emotionally shaking and is costing so much money for a house that is worth nothing.

 

Do we go back and put the extra effort in, hoping the adjuster will come through? Do we just let go--I guess I'm not sure the value of continuing, but I don't know what this means, either. If we don't hurry back, then what? If we do, is it worth it?

 

And remember, this is a lovely house in a nice neighborhood. I've talked it up far and wide--multiple facebook pages, craigslist, ebay classifieds,talking to neighbors, local rental owners and contractors, as well as it's listed with a broker for 1/3 of what we paid for it. She doesn't think lowering the price will help, as it may just get it ignored. We've been very clear, though, with everyone we've spoken to that we'll accept even very low offers. When we left at the end of June, it was move-in ready; now it doesn't even have running water.

 

As I type this, it seems obvious to not go back and just let go. But that's so difficult. We have loved this house, but we need to move on and can't afford to put in more money than we will get back. The market is so bad, that even repaired, the house is worth very little.

 

Any thoughts welcome and very much appreciated.

 

ETA: My partner read this and said it sounds like I'm looking for validation to not go back. I don't want to sound like that. I'll gladly go back if it will make a difference--I just am not sure how it will.

Edited August 10, 2012 by hana

[*********]

I'm so sorry, but my understanding is that NO one is moving into Flint.

 

I grew up there. Born and raised. My parents are FINALLY moving out soon.

 

I think you'll just have to let it go. It's very sad, I know. But what else is there to do?

[elegantlion]

have you been back to the house to ensure that's all that was stolen. If someone is coming in for pipes, they'd probably be looking for copper wiring and going after that.

 

I certainly wouldn't park a rented car in the driveway, they could just as easily steal that.

[luvnlattes]

I certainly wouldn't park a rented car in the driveway, they could just as easily steal that.

 

This was my first thought as well. Second, I would be concerned for your personal safety with the little bit I've read on here in regard to what is happening in there.

 

What are you hoping to achieve by living there until December? Are you hoping that the home will be more desirable from a buyer's standpoint if it is occupied?

[MomtoCandJ]

IS there any way you could have a light turned on automatically or something to that nature so people think some one is there? Or have someone check on it daily (just a drive by unless something looks suspious)

[Scuff]

You need to talk to a lawyer or someone who knows this kind of thing. It's yours. I think you are still liable for it and can't just abandon it. I don't know. But if someone slips on the ice this winter because you left it and weren't taking care of upkeep, i believe they can still come after you. Yes, let it go in your heart. Give up any idea that this has any value anymore. But do what you need to do to get this out of your name.

[renmew]

I do not know. It's a terrible situation. Can you just tear the house down? Empty the lot, put a cheap fence around it, and wait. I'm just thinking there would be less liability or chance of squatters with an empty lot.

[hana]

I'm so sorry, but my understanding is that NO one is moving into Flint.

 

I grew up there. Born and raised. My parents are FINALLY moving out soon.

 

I think you'll just have to let it go. It's very sad, I know. But what else is there to do?

 

No one is moving in, but some people are moving "up." People in apts. and in bad neighborhoods are able to buy houses in better neighborhoods.

 

Part of my issue is I don't know what "let go" means. It's our house free and clear--there's no bank to give it back to, and organizations are not accepting donations of houses. We have had NO offers. After it's been vacant 60 days, our insurance will be cancelled. We would need to be insured in some way, in case someone got hurt there or something. Vacant home insurance covers only wind, fire, and smoke (and I think it insures for injury, etc.). Such coverage for minimal (not full) replacement is $300/month.

[hana]

have you been back to the house to ensure that's all that was stolen. If someone is coming in for pipes, they'd probably be looking for copper wiring and going after that.

 

I certainly wouldn't park a rented car in the driveway, they could just as easily steal that.

 

 

Yes, our friend who is a contractor (so he is charging us, but at least he's willing to help out) has been in the house. But, yes, they'll be back, no doubt.

 

So far, cars are not being stolen in our neighborhood. They're not even being broken into unless valuables are visible. (Unlocked cars are having contents stolen, but not locked.) I don't know why. But I hear you!

[hana]

IS there any way you could have a light turned on automatically or something to that nature so people think some one is there? Or have someone check on it daily (just a drive by unless something looks suspious)

 

The neighbors (both next door neighbors and the one across the street) say they're watching it. I have a friend who drives by twice daily. We do have lights on, but they're not on times. We'll install times when we go back.

[hana]

This was my first thought as well. Second, I would be concerned for your personal safety with the little bit I've read on here in regard to what is happening in there.

 

What are you hoping to achieve by living there until December? Are you hoping that the home will be more desirable from a buyer's standpoint if it is occupied?

 

 

I'm somewhat worried about safety, but the alarm would sound and buy me a little time if I were sleeping in the back of the house.

 

My partner works about a mile from the house until she retires in December. We don't HAVE to live there, but it was our intent. We can make other arrangements. Two things to be accomplished by living there: 1. maintaining occupancy in order to maintain insurance; 2. hoping our physical presence would prevent further vandalism (occupied houses in our neighborhood are broken into FAR less often than unoccupied ones).

[hana]

You need to talk to a lawyer or someone who knows this kind of thing. It's yours. I think you are still liable for it and can't just abandon it. I don't know. But if someone slips on the ice this winter because you left it and weren't taking care of upkeep, i believe they can still come after you. Yes, let it go in your heart. Give up any idea that this has any value anymore. But do what you need to do to get this out of your name.

 

 

Right--we need to maintain insurance. But insurance for even VERY minimal coverage (I think it covers injuries as you describe, but coverage of the house is nearly nonexistent) for our house, vacant, would be $300/month.

[hana]

I do not know. It's a terrible situation. Can you just tear the house down? Empty the lot, put a cheap fence around it, and wait. I'm just thinking there would be less liability or chance of squatters with an empty lot.

 

I think tearing it down would be prohibitively expensive, and heartbreaking--it's truly such a nice house. But you're right about the liability, and squatters are another issue I hadn't raised here--a very likely problem soon.

[hana]

Thank you for the responses. I really appreciate hearing others on this. And it really is tied to homeschooling--we were having a great summer of homeschooling until this happened, and our minds are all distracted.

[luvnlattes]

My partner works about a mile from the house until she retires in December.

 

So do you have other plans once that happens? I mean, are you thinking you'll live there until this event occurs but once she retires you're moving on to xyz? I'm guessing my decision on what to do might be different if this is a short-term solution vs. a long-term one.

[shinyhappypeople]

Can you repair the plumbing and then rent it until the market improves? Can you take Sec8 renters? I'm sure there's a very long wait for Sec 8 housing. At least that way it would be occupied very soon. Being a landlord is a pain, but it might work out best long term.

 

This is a tough situation. Hope it's resolved soon :grouphug:

[hana]

So do you have other plans once that happens? I mean, are you thinking you'll live there until this event occurs but once she retires you're moving on to xyz? I'm guessing my decision on what to do might be different if this is a short-term solution vs. a long-term one.

 

I truly think (fingers crossed) that we can be out from under it by the end of December. I guess when I think about it that way, paying for the high-priced insurance doesn't seem so bad.

 

But, I may be naive, since we haven't had any offers at all yet. I tend to be a Pollyanna. I guess I'm thinking that if we get it repaired, we could at least get renters in--given that amount of time, we might be able to come up with a "friend of a friend" or something like that.

[hana]

Can you repair the plumbing and then rent it until the market improves? Can you take Sec8 renters? I'm sure there's a very long wait for Sec 8 housing. At least that way it would be occupied very soon. Being a landlord is a pain, but it might work out best long term.

 

This is a tough situation. Hope it's resolved soon :grouphug:

 

Oh, yes, that's another piece. Once it's repaired, I feel like we need to be there to keep any further damage from happening. Three claims, and our insurance is cancelled.

 

I really want to avoid the landlord route, but would consider it in a couple months if needed.

[luvnlattes]

I guess I'm thinking that if we get it repaired, we could at least get renters in--given that amount of time, we might be able to come up with a "friend of a friend" or something like that.

 

If you're hoping for a renter, I don't think it's as necessary to move back. You would want to ask yourself, "Is it worth it to haul my family back, purchase/rent furniture, etc. in order to avoid paying $300 a month vacant-home insurance?" Remember, you are already paying some homeowners premium. Is it $300 add'l for the change in coverage or should you be calculating the difference?

 

If you're hoping to sell, I would see it make more sense to move back as they say people are more likely to buy an occupied house vs. an empty one.

 

I think it would be tough to be a long-distance landlord and you mention you don't really want to be one. Based on that, it may definitely be worth it to move, but you would have to accept the fact that you may be there indefinitely.

 

I still think you would need to think about whether or not this is just temporary. If nothing changes by December, you would need to have thought through, "Well at that point we'll just ______________ ." At least that is how I would need to look at it.

[MomatHWTK]

I would send a certified letter to the insurance company stating the dates of occupancy. I would then further state that unless funds are provided to replace the missing plumbing any non-occupancy from this date forward will be as a result of the insurance company's failure to do so. Contact your state's insurance administration office (not sure of the title of the office) and ask them what the requirements are when the insurance company delays a claim thereby causing the non-occupancy. You might even cc your original letter to the appropriate state agency.

[elegantlion]

I would send a certified letter to the insurance company stating the dates of occupancy. I would then further state that unless funds are provided to replace the missing plumbing any non-occupancy from this date forward will be as a result of the insurance company's failure to do so. Contact your state's insurance administration office (not sure of the title of the office) and ask them what the requirements are when the insurance company delays a claim thereby causing the non-occupancy. You might even cc your original letter to the appropriate state agency.

 

Department of Insurance or Insurance Commissioner, IIRC. When I would underwriting those complaints had to be handled within a small time frame. I don't know if that was company or state policy, but I would go that route.

[hana]

If you're hoping for a renter, I don't think it's as necessary to move back. You would want to ask yourself, "Is it worth it to haul my family back, purchase/rent furniture, etc. in order to avoid paying $300 a month vacant-home insurance?" Remember, you are already paying some homeowners premium. Is it $300 add'l for the change in coverage or should you be calculating the difference?

 

If you're hoping to sell, I would see it make more sense to move back as they say people are more likely to buy an occupied house vs. an empty one.

 

I think it would be tough to be a long-distance landlord and you mention you don't really want to be one. Based on that, it may definitely be worth it to move, but you would have to accept the fact that you may be there indefinitely.

 

I still think you would need to think about whether or not this is just temporary. If nothing changes by December, you would need to have thought through, "Well at that point we'll just ______________ ." At least that is how I would need to look at it.

 

Thank you--basically, the move to the area has to happen anyway, whether or not we live in that house. Also, the difference in coverage between regular house insurance and vacant house insurance is huge.

[hana]

I would send a certified letter to the insurance company stating the dates of occupancy. I would then further state that unless funds are provided to replace the missing plumbing any non-occupancy from this date forward will be as a result of the insurance company's failure to do so. Contact your state's insurance administration office (not sure of the title of the office) and ask them what the requirements are when the insurance company delays a claim thereby causing the non-occupancy. You might even cc your original letter to the appropriate state agency.

 

Thank you for this. Good idea.

[photomo]

if you are really wanting to get rid of it and are even considering low offers, could you contact an auction company and auction the house off. I would put a minimum bid of course so you don't give it away. Here in Indiana I have seen many homes auctioned off especially after the person has passed away and their estate auctions off the house and the contents. The Auction company usually advertises the auctions. In our area we have several people that buy homes at these auctions at lower prices and then turn them into rentals. It's just a suggestion. I don't know the whole story behind your situation. Just trying to be helpful :)