Virginia Heather Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Here's why I ask-- ds (14 in October) will be in 8th grade next year. We've never really DONE science in a serious sort of way-- in early elementary, we watched videos, read books, studied astronomy---> gentle, interest-led exposure. In 5th/6th/half of 7th, he took science through our co-op (basic bio/chem type stuff)--->*nothing* rigorous, but mildly decent exposure there as well. Jump ahead to high school-- I want him to take bio/chem/physics in 9th/10th/11th w/ a more advanced science in 12th *if* he so desires (though I don't think he will). So... for 8th grade-- in order to get him up to speed and ready for highschool level science, what should I do? Originally, I was leaning towards Physical Science w/ Derek Owens. Now I'm considering BJU (w/ dvds) Earth & Space. And opinions? Any different suggestions? I want him to work hard, and I want to force him to dig deep; I want him to be challenged and I want him to stretch. BUT, I don't want to completely overwhelm him, and I don't want science to completely dominate his year (other courses for him-- math, comp., latin, omnibus-- sit higher on my priority list for him). So, any thoughts? I'm starting to panic as high school rapidly approaches-- I don't want to waste his time before he gets there, and if at all possible, I want him to enjoy science (he really didn't enjoy his co-op experiences)! I'm just not sure... where to go? What to do? Would love your opinions and feedback! And thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 If I were doing it over again, I would have done physical science in 8th and started high school with biology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I do not see physical science as a necessity at all. My DD started her high school sequence with algebra based physics and was very successful without having "physical science" before. Earth Science may be a good choice because it is not typically taken in high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 If you want to do a high school sequence of Biology, Chem, Physics, then Physical science is VERY helpful. It gives the introduction to Chemistry and Physics that is really needed before Biology as it is taught today. I would and did choose it over BJU Earth and Space. With ds, I used BJU Life in 7th, bought Earth and Space for 8th and resold it and did Physical instead. With dd we did BJU Life in 7th again and again we're doing Physical next year in 8th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in SouthGa Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well, a friend of mine who used Apologia for her son for Physics two years ago told me that after going through the Physical Science book with her daughter this year, she understood what her son did in Physics so much more. She had lots of a ha! moments. My son did Physical Science in 8th grade, but I am making him retake it this year (11th) before he takes Physics in 12th. He did not understand most of the material in Physical and didn't finish the book. He struggled in Chemistry last year. He'll still graduate with 4 sciences (Physical, Biology, Chemistry, and Physics), which is fine since he has no interest in the medical field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 After reading a plethora of science threads the past few days, I've come to the conclusion that Physical Science in 8th grade is fairly critical *if* your dc will do a traditional Biology-Chemistry-Physics sequence (for whatever reason) in HS. Modern biology being so heavy in chemistry, and chemistry being an extension of physics, that course in 8th would help them handle Biology in 9th. If you are doing Physics-first in HS, maybe you don't need PS in 8th grade? On the other hand, maybe doing PS in 8th grade will make "real" (algebra-based) physics in 9th grade easier? That's kind of where I'm leaning at this point - Physical Science in 8th, then algebra-based physics in 9th, followed by Chemistry (maybe AP) and then AP Biology in 11th. Either way, I've been convinced by the Hive not to do PS in 9th grade, as a high school science credit, which had been my original plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 If you are doing Physics-first in HS, maybe you don't need PS in 8th grade? On the other hand, maybe doing PS in 8th grade will make "real" (algebra-based) physics in 9th grade easier? We do "real" algebra based Physical Science. BJU is an option for that, I think Derek Owens is (but I'm not sure), and we use Prentice Hall. All of these are 9th grade algebra based Physics for a semester and chemistry for a semester. It has the student well prepared for Biology. I agree, it isn't necessary if you do a Physics first high school science rotation as Regentrude does, but we prefer the traditional science order. Maybe that is because my degree was Biology based, and I am not a physics prof. like Regentrude :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well, a friend of mine who used Apologia for her son for Physics two years ago told me that after going through the Physical Science book with her daughter this year, she understood what her son did in Physics so much more. She had lots of a ha! moments. My son did Physical Science in 8th grade, but I am making him retake it this year (11th) before he takes Physics in 12th. He did not understand most of the material in Physical and didn't finish the book. He struggled in Chemistry last year. He'll still graduate with 4 sciences (Physical, Biology, Chemistry, and Physics), which is fine since he has no interest in the medical field. I am so glad to know my son is not the only one taking Physical Science for 11th grade! He will be using PH Concepts in Action with the DIVE DVD. What will your son be using? I'm still figuring out a cheap way to do labs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Heather Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 I do not see physical science as a necessity at all. My DD started her high school sequence with algebra based physics and was very successful without having "physical science" before. Earth Science may be a good choice because it is not typically taken in high school. Regentrude (or others!)-- I've never considered swapping Bio w/ physics (to thus follow your physics in 9th/chem in 10th/bio in 11th grade plan). Will you please explain why this sequence might be advantageous? Way back in the day when I was in high school, I followed the "traditional" trajectory-- Bio, chem, physics. I just assumed everybody did it that way! Why the switch? Ds will finish algebra next year (8th) and start geometry-- he does well in math, but he's definitely not math-gifted (I think he's more a humanities guy). Is your plan more advantageous for the math-science types or for anyone? Please... do tell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Regentrude (or others!)-- I've never considered swapping Bio w/ physics (to thus follow your physics in 9th/chem in 10th/bio in 11th grade plan). Will you please explain why this sequence might be advantageous? Way back in the day when I was in high school, I followed the "traditional" trajectory-- Bio, chem, physics. I just assumed everybody did it that way! Why the switch? Ds will finish algebra next year (8th) and start geometry-- he does well in math, but he's definitely not math-gifted (I think he's more a humanities guy). Is your plan more advantageous for the math-science types or for anyone? Please... do tell! Decades back, biology was focused on organisms and classification, but modern biology courses are very heavily focused on biochemistry. In order to understand the biochemistry, prior chemistry study is extremely useful (you can still do bio first, but the biochemistry will make less sense and be more of a struggle). Chemistry, in turn, is an application of physics. Thus, I and many others prefer physics before chemistry before biology as the logical progression, if math skills are not a constraint. It has nothing to do with being a science or humanities oriented student. The reason that most schools start with bio is simply that they have not taught most students the necessary math to start with anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Heather Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Decades back, biology was focused on organisms and classification, but modern biology courses are very heavily focused on biochemistry. In order to understand the biochemistry, prior chemistry study is extremely useful (you can still do bio first, but the biochemistry will make less sense and be more of a struggle).Chemistry, in turn, is an application of physics. Thus, I and many others prefer physics before chemistry before biology as the logical progression, if math skills are not a constraint. It has nothing to do with being a science or humanities oriented student. The reason that most schools start with bio is simply that they have not taught most students the necessary math to start with anything else. Hmmmmm, that really does make sense! So "if math skills are not a constraint"... what math skills are necessary to succeed? Is algebra 1 enough? I'm just wondering if this progression might be a wise choice for ds, who will complete algebra in 8th (with a solid understanding, I hope!) & then begin (and hopefully make a solid dent in) geometry before the year's end. In your opinion, with that amount a math under his belt, would he be able to handle a decent physics program in 9th (as he continues to work through geometry)? And if so, do you have a favorite course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 what math skills are necessary to succeed? Is algebra 1 enough? I'm just wondering if this progression might be a wise choice for ds, who will complete algebra in 8th (with a solid understanding, I hope!) & then begin (and hopefully make a solid dent in) geometry before the year's end. In your opinion, with that amount a math under his belt, would he be able to handle a decent physics program in 9th (as he continues to work through geometry)? And if so, do you have a favorite course? Algebra 1 should suffice if the content is thoroughly mastered- he will need linear equations, systems of linear equations, quadratic equation and, in one section of the second semester, logarithms and exponential functions. (Did he use AoPS for algebra as well? If he worked through the Intro to Algebra book, he is more than prepared.) He will also need some trigonometry of the right triangle, basically SOHCAHTOA and the Pythagorean theorem, which he can easily learn in an hour; no need for a full-blown trig or precalc course. I personally like College Physics by Knight, Jones and Field, an introductory text for life science majors whihc is well written and has lots of biology applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Heather Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 A thousand thanks-- you've all given me MUCH food for thought!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Heather Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Algebra 1 should suffice if the content is thoroughly mastered- he will need linear equations, systems of linear equations, quadratic equation and, in one section of the second semester, logarithms and exponential functions. (Did he use AoPS for algebra as well? If he worked through the Intro to Algebra book, he is more than prepared.) Wow! I just looked through the samples to the AoPS Intro to Algebra text, and it looks great! I *love* the thorough explanations-- we just might have to snag a copy and work our way through, just to be sure we've covered everything thoroughly. Thanks so much for that suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Wow! I just looked through the samples to the AoPS Intro to Algebra text, and it looks great! I *love* the thorough explanations-- we just might have to snag a copy and work our way through, just to be sure we've covered everything thoroughly. Thanks so much for that suggestion! Virginia, the only reason I mentioned AoPS was that I *thought* I had read you are using that for geometry...but looking back through the whole thread I can't find that info and realize that must have been somebody else in another thread... oops, that shall teach me to spend too much time on these boards. AoPS Intro to Algebra goes WAY beyond the typical algebra 1 course- there is absolutely no need to know this much math in this much depth in order to be successful in phyiscs! Sorry for any confusion.. guess I'll better get off the computer now (but it sure is a great math program, we love it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Heather Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Oh gosh... no worries whatsoever! It was good for me, quite actually, to skim through those excerpts-- that's some serious, serious algebra!! A tad bit intimidating, truth be told, but solid and good nonetheless!! Thanks so much for the suggestions-- I have much to consider in the weeks to come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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