planning ahead

[EthiopianFood]

In my state, kids have the option of attending college for free their junior and senior years of high school (assuming they are accepted at the college). I don't have a reason to believe dd won't be capable of doing this (she is at least in the "bright" category), and I strongly feel free college shouldn't be passed up lightly, especially since dd would still be in school anyway. Therefore, I would like to plan (to whatever extent one really can when a student is so young; dd is 4 1/2, although reading at 2-3 grade level, maybe ready for 1st grade math, etc.) for her to finish her subjects by the end of 10th grade. If she doesn't then attend college, she will have plenty of time to focus on her own interests to prepare for her future in her own way. I don't anticipate a problem with English (if she isn't done by then, it is unlikely she is ready for college-level work anyway), science I am flexible with, math is step-by-step anyway, so that leaves history. I really want her to finish the final history cycle at that higher level (for my benefit as well :tongue_smilie:). We school year-round, but I would rather use those extra months to take more time on particularly interesting topics.

 

Should I then start SOTW 1 this January, when she turns 5?? I think she would probably enjoy it, but I might be underestimating the curriculum's depth. I also don't want to rush things. If I wasn't wanting to finish two years early, I would just wait until she started 1st officially, because it's not as though there is nothing else we can cover right now! ;) Has anyone done this this early, and how did it go long-term?

 

ETA: I'm just going to wait until September of next year, so it will be a year early, but I think she will be ready at that point. We really have enough to do as it is, and having to add a formal subject like that so soon feels too rushed to me. If I do need to tighten things up later on, it will only be by a year, and with year-round schooling, I'm sure I'll figure out a way to make it work. Thanks everyone for your input. :)

Edited July 12, 2012 by RaeAnne

[8filltheheart]

I approach things differently, but all of my older kids (the oldest 5 for sure) could easily graduate (have graduated) early. (We actually did graduate our oldest dd early, but that was only b/c she went to a very small (about 80 students) very orthodox Catholic LAC.) I am personally not an advocate of early graduation, but there are some subjects that my kids do take at a university while still in high school simply b/c they are so significantly beyond my abilities. ;) Math and science are the 2 main areas where "level" is more quantified. History, literature, social sciences in general.......there is no "necessary" pre-determined path that needs to be followed at all until your basic American history/gov't/lit , world history/geo/lit, etc at the high school level. Even then, there is flexibility and variability.

 

FWIW, I don't worry about grade level. I don't even worry about next yr. ;) I don't teach lists of subjects when they are little.

 

Basically, I just focus on working w/my kids at their skill level and only on basic skills until they are around 7 or 8. (essentially 1 hr of academics/grade level. So Kers work about 45 mins-1 hr, 1st is 1 to 1 1/2 hrs, 2nd is 2 to 2 1/2 hrs, etc)

 

In third grade they start history and science. Foreign language is added in around 5th, etc.

 

For kids that have the academic strength to graduate early, there is no need to plan on it from a young age. They will accelerate on their own if you work w/them at their level vs. focusing on graded textbook levels.

Edited July 11, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart

[Laurel]

I can't answer long-term questions (kids are only almost 9 and 7), but I can give you our experience with SOTW. I started when older was about 5 1/2, not planning on doing anything with younger until he was about the same age. Well, that lasted a month or two, and then he insisted on joining us for history. (I hadnt really been doing any "school" with him - maybe some math games and the pre ETC books.) They are now about halfway through with SOTW 4.

 

I wasn't worried about retention - I was going for exposure and developing a love and interest in history. I do feel we were successful in that.

 

As far as maturity when it comes to grittier modern history, these two kids aren't very sensitive, so I think it works for them. If your dd is more sensitive, you could focus more on American history the last two years, or spread the SOTW sequence out a bit. (And you can plan one thing now and change when the time comes if necessary.)

 

Both kids loved SOTW 1 (plus I was really good about planning projects that year). Their imaginative free play together was always about mummies or gladiators, etc.

[TracyP]

I plan for my kids to attend college in some way, shape, or form as juniors because my state pays for it as well. So I also have a rough plan in my head to finish the 4 year cycle in 10th grade.

 

Working back from that goal, I would like to start the next cycle in 6th grade, leaving 5 years to complete it. I have realized that having breathing room is nice, and I want the room to follow bunny trails.

 

I started Year 1 (I use TOG) when my dd was 5, almost 6. This year we should be studying year 4, but I just have zero interest in studying this time period. It is too dark, and my dd is too sensitive.

 

So, that means that I have 3 years to fill in until we start again. I am focusing this year on lit based unit study and will likely do the same for the next 2 years.

 

This is my long winded way of saying, do whatever works NOW.:001_smile: If you think she would enjoy SOTW, start it for that reason. If you think it would be better to wait, then wait. I could never have guessed when dd was 5, the changes my plan would undergo. I am now assuming that my plan will look completely different in another 3 years. That won't stop me from making a plan, but I will only make decisions based on where we are right now.

[JeanM]

This is my long winded way of saying, do whatever works NOW.:001_smile: If you think she would enjoy SOTW, start it for that reason. If you think it would be better to wait, then wait. I could never have guessed when dd was 5, the changes my plan would undergo. I am now assuming that my plan will look completely different in another 3 years. That won't stop me from making a plan, but I will only make decisions based on where we are right now.

:iagree::iagree:

 

Keep in mind that if you start SOTW 1 when she turns 5, and you do about one book per year, you'll be starting SOTW 4 when she turns 8. SOTW 4 is significantly longer and has more "mature" topics. I know my dc wouldn't have been ready for that at age 8, but I'm sure some kids would be fine. There are ways around that, like skipping SOTW4 and going back to ancients, or taking longer on some of the earlier books.

[EthiopianFood]

This is my long winded way of saying, do whatever works NOW.:001_smile: If you think she would enjoy SOTW, start it for that reason. If you think it would be better to wait, then wait. I could never have guessed when dd was 5, the changes my plan would undergo. I am now assuming that my plan will look completely different in another 3 years. That won't stop me from making a plan, but I will only make decisions based on where we are right now.

 

This is where I'm leaning, I think. I have definitely changed plans that I was SO sure of, already! I just don't want to start something that I know I can't finish because of HOW I started.... I'll see how I feel in December, I suppose. I do think she would enjoy Ancients and doing more crafts (which I am bad at initiating, so structure works much better for me).

 

Keep in mind that if you start SOTW 1 when she turns 5, and you do about one book per year, you'll be starting SOTW 4 when she turns 8. SOTW 4 is significantly longer and has more "mature" topics. I know my dc wouldn't have been ready for that at age 8, but I'm sure some kids would be fine. There are ways around that, like skipping SOTW4 and going back to ancients, or taking longer on some of the earlier books.

 

Is there a way to do SOTW4 in a lighter way, to gloss over the rougher stuff?

[FairProspects]

Is there a way to do SOTW4 in a lighter way, to gloss over the rougher stuff?

 

Use a different spine? :lol:

 

I helped teach SOTW 4 in a co-op this year, and it is much more difficult than the other three. Not only in subject matter, but also in sophistication of ideas and study skills. The fun is gone and history becomes more outlining and note-taking in preparation for moving into logic stage work and primary sources. I know it is not unusual for homeschoolers to be doing that level of work in grade 4, but many of my PS high schoolers would have struggled with parts of the material if that gives you a better idea of the difficulty.

 

The 20th century certainly can be covered younger, but I wouldn't use SOTW 4. I plan on using this encyclopedia for my 2nd grader instead. Of course, we are only on SOTW 2, so plans could easily change in 2 years. :D

[EthiopianFood]

Use a different spine? :lol:

 

I helped teach SOTW 4 in a co-op this year, and it is much more difficult than the other three. Not only in subject matter, but also in sophistication of ideas and study skills. The fun is gone and history becomes more outlining and note-taking in preparation for moving into logic stage work and primary sources. I know it is not unusual for homeschoolers to be doing that level of work in grade 4, but many of my PS high schoolers would have struggled with parts of the material if that gives you a better idea of the difficulty.

 

Even if you don't use the activity book? Isn't the spine just the stories, and the output is a separate thing?

[FairProspects]

Even if you don't use the activity book? Isn't the spine just the stories, and the output is a separate thing?

 

Ok, I should clarify that it depends on what your intention is in using it. If you just want dc to get an overview of events, and your child is not sensitive, then perhaps. I know lots of people on the boards have their child read through or listen to the whole series at younger ages.

 

But, that's not what I'm meaning when I think about studying the time period as your main history for a whole year. Then I start to think about integrating skills and content as well as discussing ideas and themes as you transition to more complex arguments, and no, I don't think that is the best choice for a younger student unless they have already entered logic stage thought processing. It is a lot of content and far more detail than the other volumes. Much of that detail is somewhat pointless and unnecessary unless you are mature enough to do something (discuss, write, debate, etc.) with the material. It's sort of like using a hammer to smash a lock when a key would work just fine and be better tailored to the job.

[EthiopianFood]

Ok, I should clarify that it depends on what your intention is in using it. If you just want dc to get an overview of events, and your child is not sensitive, then perhaps. I know lots of people on the boards have their child read through or listen to the whole series at younger ages.

 

But, that's not what I'm meaning when I think about studying the time period as your main history for a whole year. Then I start to think about integrating skills and content as well as discussing ideas and themes as you transition to more complex arguments, and no, I don't think that is the best choice for a younger student unless they have already entered logic stage thought processing. It is a lot of content and far more detail than the other volumes. Much of that detail is somewhat pointless and unnecessary unless you are mature enough to do something (discuss, write, debate, etc.) with the material. It's sort of like using a hammer to smash a lock when a key would work just fine and be better tailored to the job.

 

That makes sense, I understand where you're coming from now. Just to clarify, I obviously value those skills, and if dd wasn't ready year 4, we would just do it with Ancients in year 5. Each student will be capable of something different at any given age, regardless of where they are "supposed" to be, you know? But your analogy makes a lot of sense, and is something I will think about. I care more about the 4 year cycle than about using a specific book. I just still want world history, as whatever else I end up changing, global awareness is a huge part of my personal value system. Good thing I have more time to plan, right? ;)

[Embassy]

Should I then start SOTW 1 this January, when she turns 5?? I think she would probably enjoy it, but I might be underestimating the curriculum's depth. I also don't want to rush things. If I wasn't wanting to finish two years early, I would just wait until she started 1st officially, because it's not as though there is nothing else we can cover right now! ;) Has anyone done this this early, and how did it go long-term?

 

If you think she would enjoy it I would try it. If it is too much you can always shelve it for awhile.

 

I haven't used SOTW though and I'm not doing the 4 year cycle. That said, it may be difficult to plan long term. Your child might be ready for much more meat than the logic stage recommendations when she gets there. Just start and see how it goes in the future.

[Mélie]

I'm planning to start SOTW this fall, shortly before my younger son turns 5, but I'm stretching out the first cycle to 6 years. We'll cover dinosaurs :D to about chapter 24 of SOTW this year. I'd also like to finish the history cycle a year or two early (and I really love the four-year cycle for high school), so I'm okay with either doing a very quick 2nd cycle, or skipping it altogether and studying something they're particularly interested in for a few years. Just another possibility. :)

[PhotoGal]

Just chiming in to say I think it is way too early to worry about it! A lot of things can change between age 4 and high school. You can always adjust during middle school if needed. I would just do stow if you and your child are interested. :)

[EthiopianFood]

I'm planning to start SOTW this fall, shortly before my younger son turns 5, but I'm stretching out the first cycle to 6 years. We'll cover dinosaurs :D to about chapter 24 of SOTW this year. I'd also like to finish the history cycle a year or two early (and I really love the four-year cycle for high school), so I'm okay with either doing a very quick 2nd cycle, or skipping it altogether and studying something they're particularly interested in for a few years. Just another possibility. :)

 

 

Just chiming in to say I think it is way too early to worry about it! A lot of things can change between age 4 and high school. You can always adjust during middle school if needed. I would just do stow if you and your child are interested. :)

 

These two posts compliment each other well for me. I hadn't really thought about only doing the complete cycle twice. Yes, a lot can change by then, and if I have the same goals that I do now at that point, I can always start the last cycle early and cut cycle two short. I feel better now. :001_smile:

[boscopup]

I agree with just doing whatever works for you and your child NOW and not worrying too much about the future. You can really do anything in history and be just fine. :tongue_smilie:

 

We did SOTW1 and 2, and my son read on his own volumes 3 and 4. He just re-read all 4 volumes again this summer (we're doing a summer reading program with our homeschool support group, and his goal is 10,000 pages... almost there, and we still have a couple weeks left!). Since he had done all this reading, I decided to switch to US history for a couple years. Then on a whim, I bought Sonlight Core D used for super cheap. We love it, so we're sticking with it for the near future. I've abandoned the 4 year cycle completely. :001_huh:

 

So yeah, your needs and your children's needs will change, and you'll find that certain things that you thought would work just aren't quite as good a fit in reality. My goal in the early/mid elementary years is to develop a love of history and science and reading. I don't think it really matters what you use for those years. Just expose the kids to a variety of ideas, be it sequential or not.

 

Btw, I didn't vote in your history retention poll on the K-8 board (since it hasn't been 4 years yet), but I can tell you that my son in 3rd grade now does not remember much from 1st grade. He can only tell you details about world history because he has read SOTW 1-4 several times through. And I'll bet if he didn't read it again until 5th grade, all that knowledge would slip away yet again. It's the nature of the age. That's why younger grades have so much repetition from year to year. Little kids forget everything over the summer. :tongue_smilie: Think back to your own childhood. Do you remember a lot of details about what you were taught in elementary? I sure don't. I don't remember ANY history before high school, even though I know I was taught history in those early years. That doesn't mean teaching history at those ages is pointless, but just that long term retention probably shouldn't be the goal, and you don't need to worry whether you're "doing it right" at those ages. :) Focus on skills, and read, read, read.

[EthiopianFood]

So yeah, your needs and your children's needs will change, and you'll find that certain things that you thought would work just aren't quite as good a fit in reality. My goal in the early/mid elementary years is to develop a love of history and science and reading. I don't think it really matters what you use for those years. Just expose the kids to a variety of ideas, be it sequential or not.

 

You should see the list I made of curricula... when dd was 6 months old. :lol: But I will point out that, despite several saying you can't really do it wrong at this age, there is the simultaneous message that it is bad to SOTW too early because of year 4, and also that kids can't really understand history this young in the first place. All that to say my second guessing is based on what I have read on the board, not simply because I am neurotic and overcomplicate everything. Those things are also true, but it is not the whole story. :tongue_smilie:

 

Btw, I didn't vote in your history retention poll on the K-8 board (since it hasn't been 4 years yet), but I can tell you that my son in 3rd grade now does not remember much from 1st grade. He can only tell you details about world history because he has read SOTW 1-4 several times through. And I'll bet if he didn't read it again until 5th grade, all that knowledge would slip away yet again. It's the nature of the age. That's why younger grades have so much repetition from year to year. Little kids forget everything over the summer. :tongue_smilie: Think back to your own childhood. Do you remember a lot of details about what you were taught in elementary? I sure don't. I don't remember ANY history before high school, even though I know I was taught history in those early years. That doesn't mean teaching history at those ages is pointless, but just that long term retention probably shouldn't be the goal, and you don't need to worry whether you're "doing it right" at those ages. :) Focus on skills, and read, read, read.

 

I tend to assume this is because I wasn't taught anything worth learning. :001_smile: I didn't receive a WTM education, so I don't know what to expect, hence my poll. :001_smile: I appreciate hearing your experience. It is helpful to hear that even smart, motivated kids have the normal retention issues!

[8filltheheart]

Simply b/c there will be little retention or real understanding of history in context does not mean little kids can't learn history in the first place. :confused: I don't think anyone has said that. It isn't all or nothing. (this is off-track of what I really want to address, but it could be as simple as re-reading the book 2 or 3 yrs later. Substituting in a different book for vol 4. Or recognizing that there hundreds of sources out there and you can cover the same historical period w/ different bks.)

 

To get to what I really wanted to type......

 

From what I am gathering from your posts, the bigger child development/educational outcome/underlying objective is what you are really seeking to understand. To understand that you should try to stop thinking in terms of resources and retention of details and instead think in terms of helping them make connections to large generalities.

 

For example, what are concepts that 5 yr old learn about ancient Egypt that they will remember even if it isn't Pharoahs names or that pyramids are burial crypts or that the river's name is the Nile, etc?

 

When I teach my little ones I try to focus on big things that actually connect to other issues that are meaningful. A 5 yr old understands that plants need water to live. They understand w/o rain, plants need a water source from somewhere else. They also know that sand w/o water is very dry. Taking what they do know, how can I make it help them understand something new? They can learn about desert areas and people needing to live near water like a river in order to survive.

 

If they live in an area where they are used to seeing lots of trees, they can learn that it isn't like that everywhere and that different places have different plants and some places don't have lots of trees. I try to help them think about what they means in terms of how it affects the way people live. When they see houses being built around our neighborhood, etc, what do they see going up first? (wood frame construction) Where do people get the wood? (most likely answer would be the store. ;) ) What if there isn't a store to buy lumber?........What if there are no trees to cut down and it is a long time ago w/no stores, no trucks for delivery? Would building a house from wood be easy? What else could they build a house from??

 

I'm not sure that I am conveying my thoughts well, but my goals for a 5 yr old would not be details about pharoahs, etc. It would be about understanding that the world is different in different places and times and b/c of that can they think about how that makes life different from their own. Since little kids are more concrete in their understanding vs. abstract, using what they already observe to understand what they can't directly helps them make real connections vs. arbitrary dates that have no context to their reality (5000 yrs ago when you are 5.......it is not really a concept they can comprehend. Parents are old, grandparents are ancient. ;))

 

B/c they can easily learn those types of concepts from various historical discussions (American Indians vs. Egypt), etc. or even if they are exposed to completely different types of connections at 5 and learn those later, you really can't mess up.

 

Things end up weaving together and "gaps" are filled, time periods over lap, they learn new things and re-cover old ideas........11 yr, 13 yrs.......it is a lot of time to cover a lot material. (and back to your very original idea......other than the standard high school American history, American gov't (a 1/2 credit), and world history courses.......I have never seen a single college ask for anything else. So, when you are discussing graduating early and history, 2 1/2 yrs of history is technically all you have to have. Definitely not suggesting that is all you should do!! But, there is no stress to do x,y,and z and 5, 6, and 7 b/c you have a goal of early graduation.)

Edited July 13, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart

[boscopup]

You should see the list I made of curricula... when dd was 6 months old. :lol: But I will point out that, despite several saying you can't really do it wrong at this age, there is the simultaneous message that it is bad to SOTW too early because of year 4, and also that kids can't really understand history this young in the first place. All that to say my second guessing is based on what I have read on the board, not simply because I am neurotic and overcomplicate everything. Those things are also true, but it is not the whole story. :tongue_smilie:

 

FWIW, my son read SOTW4 at age 7 and had no problem with it. Don't worry about it until you get there. It may be a complete non-issue. ;)

 

My middle son... he probably wouldn't be ready for SOTW1 even in first grade. He's still so literal and gets confused easily. I think SOTW will be way over his head a year from now (though he could surprise me!).

 

All kids are different. There are a LOT of things you can do instead of SOTW4 if it's too much for YOUR child. You could focus on inventions during that time period, for example. You could probably spend 2 years studying that! :001_huh:

 

So decide now what you think your child would enjoy now, and worry about 4 years from now closer to 4 years from now, when you know what your child is like as far as understanding history goes. I could not have predicted at age 5 that my oldest would be such a history buff.

[EKS]

I would start with what she is ready to do. However, I personally would wait on SOTW until she is 6 and would do some geography and American history before that.

 

I waited until my son was 1st grade age until we started SOTW and it was a good decision. We did a three year world history rotation and then a year of American in 4th grade. If I were to continue to homeschool him, we would do another three year rotation in grades 5, 6, and 7, a year of high school level American in 8th and then two years of world with a college level text in 9th and 10th with the plan being some sort of college (dual enrollment or early entrance) in 11th.

[Embassy]

I don't think it can be assumed that children will learn little during the early years. I grilled my kids this morning on a unit study we did when they were in Junior Kindergarten and 1st grade. My former first grader (now going into 5th grade) remembered the details of a book we read aloud and some of the major concepts that I wanted them to learn. My former JK remembered a bunch of the activities and a couple concepts. We have talked about those concepts since that time because history isn't compartmentalized.

[EthiopianFood]

FWIW, my son read SOTW4 at age 7 and had no problem with it. Don't worry about it until you get there. It may be a complete non-issue. ;)

 

Yes, that has been the general consensus, and that makes sense to me, so that is what I'm going to do. I was just explaining my reasoning. :001_smile:

 

I would start with what she is ready to do. However, I personally would wait on SOTW until she is 6 and would do some geography and American history before that.

 

I waited until my son was 1st grade age until we started SOTW and it was a good decision. We did a three year world history rotation and then a year of American in 4th grade. If I were to continue to homeschool him, we would do another three year rotation in grades 5, 6, and 7, a year of high school level American in 8th and then two years of world with a college level text in 9th and 10th with the plan being some sort of college (dual enrollment or early entrance) in 11th.

 

Thank you for your ideas! I appeciate hearing how different people do things.

 

I don't think it can be assumed that children will learn little during the early years. I grilled my kids this morning on a unit study we did when they were in Junior Kindergarten and 1st grade. My former first grader (now going into 5th grade) remembered the details of a book we read aloud and some of the major concepts that I wanted them to learn. My former JK remembered a bunch of the activities and a couple concepts. We have talked about those concepts since that time because history isn't compartmentalized.

 

That is the key, I think: to review every once in awhile!

[AngelBee]

I have all SOTW books and activity guides if you want to check them out at homeschool meet up. :)

 

Mylee was only 3 or 4 her first go thru SOTW1. It was fine. Retention was low, but she enjoyed the journey and will at least be vaguely familiar next time through.

 

She will also be only 6 during her rotation through SOTW 4. Delainey will be 4. I am fine with that. You go light and add in lighter enrichment such as videos and books from those time periods. Talk about my gramma growing up in the 20's, gather food for food shelve when discussing the Depression, talk about swing dance, start of television, radio shows, how wonderful it is that boys and girls of all colors can go to places together now days and how badly it broke God's heart when they couldn't, etc.

 

Feel free to leave out anything that doesn't fit where she is. You'll get back to it later. :)

[EthiopianFood]

I have all SOTW books and activity guides if you want to check them out at homeschool meet up. :)

 

Mylee was only 3 or 4 her first go thru SOTW1. It was fine. Retention was low, but she enjoyed the journey and will at least be vaguely familiar next time through.

 

She will also be only 6 during her rotation through SOTW 4. Delainey will be 4. I am fine with that. You go light and add in lighter enrichment such as videos and books from those time periods. Talk about my gramma growing up in the 20's, gather food for food shelve when discussing the Depression, talk about swing dance, start of television, radio shows, how wonderful it is that boys and girls of all colors can go to places together now days and how badly it broke God's heart when they couldn't, etc.

 

Feel free to leave out anything that doesn't fit where she is. You'll get back to it later. :)

 

I was actually thinking about something similar. I wonder if you could do a focus on activists during those times, to focus on how to make a difference in the world instead of how horrible things are no matter what you do. I know those folks who hid Jews during WWII really inspire ME!

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. :)

[AngelBee]

I was actually thinking about something similar. I wonder if you could do a focus on activists during those times, to focus on how to make a difference in the world instead of how horrible things are no matter what you do. I know those folks who hid Jews during WWII really inspire ME!

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. :)

 

:iagree: That's EXACTLY my plan. Then have separate conversations with Angelo, Abigail, and Dominick as I see fit.

 

Who knows? Little ones can surprise you and be able to handle topics too. Angelo LOVES talking about war stuff. Always has. He is really into learning about innocent victims of war and talking about what should be done about it.

 

Abigail learned about WWII genocide at age 7 when she was portraying the little girl in the red coat from Shindler's List. She didn't watch the movie or anything but knew it was about a little girl who had to hide because of her religion, that her family was no longer with her, and that she ends up killed. :( It was a beautiful, life changing piece.