Looking for input...where to begin to seek help?

[partyof5]

Hi,

This is my first post on the special needs board and I'm sure that with some guidance I could find posts related to my questions, but I'm not sure what to search for yet. Your help is appreciated!

 

My youngest is the first to have any real trouble learning, and I feel like I've made her wait longer than I should have to recognize this...Her older sisters are both excellent students, with one working far above grade level. This scenario has had me second-guessing my gut instincts that my youngest is struggling...basically I have worried that I was subconsciously comparing her to her sisters. "Maybe she's just more 'typical' and the older two are too advanced to compare, and I'm just comparing accidentally?" Well-meaning friends have helped cement that idea for me, until now when I realize I may have lost some time.

 

As we approach 3rd grade, I'm realizing that my gut was probably right...she is not ready to move from "learn to read" into "read to learn" AT ALL and there are multiple other issues as well that are now seeming more pronounced, including:

 

• inability to rhyme properly (she thinks "beak" rhymes with "eat", for ex.)
  
• has never been able to pronounce the letter 'r' well (though we live just north of Boston where it's 'normal')
  
• wild guesses at spelling, esp. for vowel sounds
  
• comprehension issues with fun "easy" books
  
• HUGE comprehension issues with content area that I read to her (SOTW and science)
  
• seemingly distracted and slow-moving when it's time to write anything, including copywork (spaces out instead of getting to work)
  
• can't follow multi-step instructions
  
• requires months of prompts for memory work and she often feels like every time is the first time (like FLL parts of speech definitions)
  
• makes lots of mistakes on work where she has to read a short set of instructions on her own
  

 

These are just some highlights of my concerns but I can't even begin to figure out what kind of general area they may "fit" into, if that's even possible. I had similar "nothing is sticking" feelings with math until we switched to MUS and it's like a lightbulb went off...is the blocks? the videos? Mr. Demme?

 

At her last well-visit I had a suspicion of hearing issues and the simple in-office screening showed no problems whatsoever, and was therefore discounted. I also had a pedi opthamologist look at her eyes (she has a freckle near her iris that gets looked at every 2 yrs) and asked her to look into the fact that dd squints ALL the time when reading or writing. They found NOTHING wrong...'she must just do that out of habit'.

 

SO I'm guessing I go back to the pediatrician first, but now that I feel confident that I'm looking for more than basic eye/ear tests, what am I actually asking for? A referral for auditory issues, speech, language, memory? I'm not sure what to ask for and I am concerned that being ambiguous will result in a hesitant response from the dr. (fwiw, if this were to happen, i'm open to changing docs)

 

I'm looking for a roadmap if that's possible, as well as some helpful resources for me to begin researching. I want to be able to help her before her frustration level increases...I feel horrible about putting this off for so long and second-guessing that feeling I've had.

 

Thanks for reading and for offering any support you can,

[Tiramisu]

We don't have a visual processing issue here, but I've gone to presentations on it and had an evaluation done and I remember that "squinting" can be a sign of a visual processing problem when visual acuity is normal. Lots of folks here have experience in vision therapy, so I'm sure you'll here from the experts soon. ;)

 

About the auditory issues, we have one with central auditory processing disorder (CAPD). You need to have an evaluation done by a doctor of audiology, no one else will do. With our insurance, we needed a referral from our pediatrician. I got a through hearing screening and processing evaluation done at a children's hospital. Because we once had the disorder missed at a local place when a basic screening was done, I always recommend people to get the full evaluation at the best place you can find. Boston Children's should have a good audiology department.

 

It's very tricky to figure out what might be CAPD and what might be ADHD just from observations of behavior. I just had another dd evaluated for CAPD and she does not have it. Kids with both CAPD and ADHD tend to zone out, have short attention spans for listening when it's something they're not interested in, and have trouble following multi-step directions despite having great hearing! Haha. If you're seeing actually misunderstanding of sounds in words that's a clue, as are problems with auditory comprehension and spelling, that there might be an auditory processing problem. CAPD, of course, can co-exist with a lot of other things, too, so it's good to go forward and get what you can checked out with a neuropsychological evaluation, and get all the answers you can.

 

Above all, don't feel bad about waiting. As far as the CAPD goes, your timing is great. Maturity can make a difference in the testing so they don't even usually evaluate kids younger than seven.

 

Since all kids are different, it's hard to compare. With the oldest, sometimes it takes a long time to figure out what's what. Then what you see in the older ones influences how you perceive the younger ones. I finally got some cognitive testing done on my oldest because I felt something was there, and I didn't know if I was misjudging her or my expectations were off because I was comparing her to the kind of student I was.

 

I hope you find the answers you need to help your dd.:grouphug:

[Crimson Wife]

I think your best bet is a neuropsych eval if you can get insurance approval for one or have the money to pay out-of-pocket for it (but be forewarned NP evals can run thousands of dollars). It can be very difficult to tease apart CAPD from ADD from working memory issues (this is where we are at with my oldest DD but it got put on hold when youngest DD was diagnosed with autism).

[partyof5]

Thank you Kelli & Crimson Wife!

 

I appreciate this input and will do a little reading on the tests and potential problems you both mentioned. I'll also do a little insurance co. research and see what's covered before getting in too deep.

 

Glad it might not be too late. She's 8 and I think if I can get a pediatric visit in this summer, I'd like to put the ball in motion on this, while learning as much as I can as fast as I can!

 

Thank you both...I appreciate you taking the time to reply!

[Pen]

Hi,

This is my first post on the special needs board and I'm sure that with some guidance I could find posts related to my questions, but I'm not sure what to search for yet. Your help is appreciated!

 

My youngest is the first to have any real trouble learning, and I feel like I've made her wait longer than I should have to recognize this...Her older sisters are both excellent students, with one working far above grade level. This scenario has had me second-guessing my gut instincts that my youngest is struggling...basically I have worried that I was subconsciously comparing her to her sisters. "Maybe she's just more 'typical' and the older two are too advanced to compare, and I'm just comparing accidentally?" Well-meaning friends have helped cement that idea for me, until now when I realize I may have lost some time.

 

As we approach 3rd grade, I'm realizing that my gut was probably right...she is not ready to move from "learn to read" into "read to learn" AT ALL and there are multiple other issues as well that are now seeming more pronounced, including:

 

 

• inability to rhyme properly (she thinks "beak" rhymes with "eat", for ex.)

• has never been able to pronounce the letter 'r' well (though we live just north of Boston where it's 'normal')

• wild guesses at spelling, esp. for vowel sounds

• comprehension issues with fun "easy" books

• HUGE comprehension issues with content area that I read to her (SOTW and science)

• seemingly distracted and slow-moving when it's time to write anything, including copywork (spaces out instead of getting to work)

• can't follow multi-step instructions

• requires months of prompts for memory work and she often feels like every time is the first time (like FLL parts of speech definitions)

• makes lots of mistakes on work where she has to read a short set of instructions on her own

 

 

These are just some highlights of my concerns but I can't even begin to figure out what kind of general area they may "fit" into, if that's even possible. I had similar "nothing is sticking" feelings with math until we switched to MUS and it's like a lightbulb went off...is the blocks? the videos? Mr. Demme?

 

At her last well-visit I had a suspicion of hearing issues and the simple in-office screening showed no problems whatsoever, and was therefore discounted. I also had a pedi opthamologist look at her eyes (she has a freckle near her iris that gets looked at every 2 yrs) and asked her to look into the fact that dd squints ALL the time when reading or writing. They found NOTHING wrong...'she must just do that out of habit'.

 

SO I'm guessing I go back to the pediatrician first, but now that I feel confident that I'm looking for more than basic eye/ear tests, what am I actually asking for? A referral for auditory issues, speech, language, memory? I'm not sure what to ask for and I am concerned that being ambiguous will result in a hesitant response from the dr. (fwiw, if this were to happen, i'm open to changing docs)

 

I'm looking for a roadmap if that's possible, as well as some helpful resources for me to begin researching. I want to be able to help her before her frustration level increases...I feel horrible about putting this off for so long and second-guessing that feeling I've had.

 

Thanks for reading and for offering any support you can,

 

Sounds like maybe more than one thing going on. I'm also inclined to think a neuropsychologist who can help get it sorted out. There could also be something visual or auditory, and might need a developmental optometrist or audiologist. But could be an NP would come up with something that would explain more or less all of it. Dyslexia for one thing can have associated delays with language that could account for the pronunciation and rhyming issues, and for why MUS helps, but I'm not sure it would account for comprehension trouble when you read something to her or for having trouble with multistep tasks. If you draw out pictures for the multistep tasks so that she doesn't have to remember them, can she do them, or does she get sidetracked and still can't complete them? Or if you have her tell them to you, before setting out to be sure she has heard correctly, can she do them? I am asking in order to try to help you to figure out if this is hearing, memory, or attention related, so as to help elicit information that may allow other with experience on here to help you to focus your path for seeking evaluations in the right direction(s).

 

If I compare my son whose main issue is dyslexia-ish problems, there was overlap in many areas -- except for the comprehension of passages read to him, which for him was fine, and carrying out multistep tasks (assuming instructions were oral) which was within normal limits for a distractible boy. I think that "except" is significant and may mean either that your child has something different going on than he did, or dyslexia-ish issues, plus something else like an auditory problem.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Pen

[Lecka]

My son had just one thing from that list -- the rhyming thing.

 

First -- it could be that she has trouble distinguishing some consonant sounds, particularly at the ends of words. This can be called sound discrimination or auditory discrimination. My son had it pretty bad and was helped by speech therapy.

 

Second -- it could be more of a problem with segmenting a word and knowing if they match - - that is more phonological processing or phonemic awareness.

 

I wish I had realized earlier he was hearing some consonants as the same sound or sometimes interchangable -- it would have explained a lot.

 

For my son it was more of a dyslexia thing and a speech therapy thing than an APD thing - -and was treated pretty successfully ( mistakes happen but are much rarer). I think for others it is more of an APD thing .

 

There are some "short" consonants that are most-commonly confused, b/c they are said in such a short amount of time, and also clipped at the end of a word. They are ones like t, k, d, g, p, b.

 

My son was constantly making mistakes and mispronouncing words -- it was a big problem for him. I think that if it just happened on a rare occassion that would be different. My son couldn't learn/retain some letter sounds b/c he was vague on what the sounds were.

 

Then he had trouble with rhyming, too, just from not being able to segment two words into onset-rime and then comparing the rimes. (Onset-rime is just how you talk about the beginning and end of a word when you divide it to see if it rhymes.) That is phonological processing.

[PeterPan]

Well in an ideal world you're going to go ahead and pursue all three paths (developmental optometrist, CAPD, and neuropsych). In reality some of those are going to have longer waits than others. I suggest you read up on all three, make calls and figure out who you'd want for all three, see what the waits are to get appointments with all three, then make your best decision.

 

As you make those calls you may find one wants another first. The CAPD place may want a psych eval first. The neuropsych can't eliminate the concern of CAPD, and in fact *sometimes* kids get diagnoses ADHD (by the neuropsych) and the CAPD gets missed. So you sort of have to just talk with places and see what your places want. As far as the developmental optometrist, that's probably going to be the easiest to get into. As always though, make sure you're getting a good one.

 

You're not crazy to pursue some evals. You just have to start somewhere and let it unfold. :)

[partyof5]

If you draw out pictures for the multistep tasks so that she doesn't have to remember them, can she do them, or does she get sidetracked and still can't complete them? Or if you have her tell them to you, before setting out to be sure she has heard correctly, can she do them?

 

I've never drawn out multi-step tasks, but my guess is that it might work and I'm going to try it today.

 

When I have her repeat them to me, she does often miss the last one, so I restate everything and have her restate it and she can sometimes do this. But when it comes to doing the tasks, she still occasionally forgets the last one, but this is less frequent when she can verbally restate them successfully.

 

Thanks for your input!

[Heathermomster]

It's amazing the reactions Moms have to these kind of postings. These questions come up frequently about "who to see first". Everyone's experiences vary with their kids. I would expect that your DD was dyslexic, dysgraphic, and likely gifted, but confounded by a weak working memory and slower processing speed. Whatever the case, it's painful to speculate. My family sought answers first through a free dyslexia screening at a Scottish Rite Learning Center, followed by a wonderful and full NP report.

 

Educate yourself by reading Overcoming Dyslexia by Shaywitz. I am not surprised that your DD responds well to MUS, as many (not all) with math struggles do. The book How the Brain Learns Mathematics by Sousa and books written by Ronit Bird discuss the use of concrete manipulatives for remediating struggling learners. Bird has stated that 50% of dyslexics have dyscalculia too.

 

I don't know a thing about CAPD. I'm a huge fan of seeking a NP eval and hiring an experienced, O-G tutor to get the ball rolling with the reading.

[Tiramisu]

Well in an ideal world you're going to go ahead and pursue all three paths (developmental optometrist, CAPD, and neuropsych). In reality some of those are going to have longer waits than others. I suggest you read up on all three, make calls and figure out who you'd want for all three, see what the waits are to get appointments with all three, then make your best decision.

 

As you make those calls you may find one wants another first. The CAPD place may want a psych eval first. The neuropsych can't eliminate the concern of CAPD, and in fact *sometimes* kids get diagnoses ADHD (by the neuropsych) and the CAPD gets missed. So you sort of have to just talk with places and see what your places want. As far as the developmental optometrist, that's probably going to be the easiest to get into. As always though, make sure you're getting a good one.

 

You're not crazy to pursue some evals. You just have to start somewhere and let it unfold. :)

 

With my first one, a psychologist, not a neuropsych, may have said ADD and we may not have gone further. However, there were very specific things that showed up with the auditory processing testing which absolutely could not have been accounted for by ADD. Personally, seeing the testing, I think you would have to have a more severe version of ADD for it to interfere with the testing and other things would be noticeable. Also, I'm certain ADD would clearly impact some subtests strongly but not others as much.

 

This is a controversial topic and recently, I've pointed to some articles that attest to that. I guess because I've sat through the testing twice, so I tend to go with the side that supports the idea that both a parent and a pediatric audiologist can easily monitor attention levels during testing and pick up interference. So, if it's a money issue where someone can't afford a neuropsych yet, I'd support the idea of going to an audiologist if insurance would cover that part now. And I'd just be open with the audiologist about my concerns.

 

FWIW, the dc that I think is most likely to have attention issues in our family performed way above her peers overall on her CAP evaluation. On part of the test where she had to repeat back a string of numbers, she was thrown for for the first two strings of digits and couldn't get them all. I could clearly see a lack of attention and knew she wasn't prepared for having to focus at that level, but she realized on her own that she had to focus more and did very well on the rest of the subtest and wound up with very high scores for her age level on that subtest. If a kid didn't have that realization and couldn't muster the attention, yes it would mess up the scores but I think there's a good chance you could tell if the issue was an attention thing. You would not be able to tell, though, if it was a working memory deficit. Just my thoughts....

 

 

I don't mean to alarm you, but have you considered low IQ as a reason for these issues? Almost everything you described fits with my son, who has mild mental retardation. Mild mental retardation doesn't really "show" until around the 3rd grade or so. A neuropsychologist will do IQ tests which would really expose MR if it exists.

 

If you suspect MR, would a neuropsych be covered?

[Crimson Wife]

I tried going to the Aud.D. first for a CAPD evaluation, and she refused to do the 2nd part of the eval. until after oldest DD had seen a neuropsych :glare:

[partyof5]

I appreciate the different points of view on what to do first, and I'll use all of that to ask some questions when I start trying to make calls & appts. I still don't know yet what our insurance would cover, but I am hopeful that the area we live in will lend itself to finding good help. It's funny to me that there seems to not be a clear path between the work of a neuropsych and audiology and which comes first, so I'm guessing that coordinating these two to facilitate their ability to analyze dd will be critical to getting to the bottom of this.

 

I'm starting some different reading activities with her right away to work on phonemic awareness because it seems to be an area that I can pinpoint a concern and work on some things at home while we sort out the diagnosis stuff.

 

To be honest, I hadn't given much thought to ADD until some of the replies came in, because I've assumed her inability to follow multi-step instructions was a memory issue...I'll have to do some reading about this too. And dyslexia was not on my radar b/c I have no experience with this...I'm learning a lot here already!

 

Has anyone read "The Mislabeled Child" and have feedback about its value? Meanwhile, I'm reserving all your other recommendations at the library.

 

Thank you ALL for your thoughtful suggestions and speculations...it gives me more to work with so that I can do some reading on my own and feel more confident that what I'm seeing IS worthy of follow-up.

 

And honestly it's comforting to know that others have experienced (and survived) these moments and have found working solutions for their kids.

[Tiramisu]

I tried going to the Aud.D. first for a CAPD evaluation, and she refused to do the 2nd part of the eval. until after oldest DD had seen a neuropsych :glare:

 

I do think this could be part of the screening process because ours had two parts also. I think that if the audiologist sees anything in the first part that could interfere with a reliable evaluation they won't proceed with the 2nd part, the processing part. So, if the audiologist is concerned about attention with what she sees in the first part, she'd make that recommendation to go to the neuropsych and tell you to come back after that. Of course, I'm in no place to suggest that's what happened in your case. Also, if they find a hearing problem, they couldn't proceed either. FWIW, there was an odd finding in the first part of our screening. So when we came back for the second part, we had to have a test done by the audiologist to rule out another problem before proceeding to the CAP evaluation. It makes sense to me as a reason for them to break the testing into to parts for that screening aspect, in addition to the fact that the second part is long, rather draining, and, IMHO, does tax attention to full capacity for kids with even normal attention spans. I definitely see why they want to wait until seven before doing CAP evaluations, even besides the maturation of the auditory system. When they do the testing, they ramp up to increasing difficulty levels to the point that nearly everyone's processing could break down. I could imagine that being very frustrating.

Edited June 24, 2012 by NJKelli

[Crimson Wife]

I do think this could be part of the screening process because ours had two parts also. I think that if the audiologist sees anything in the first part that could interfere with a reliable evaluation they won't proceed with the 2nd part, the processing part. So, if the audiologist is concerned about attention with what she sees in the first part, she'd make that recommendation to go to the neuropsych and tell you to come back after that. Of course, I'm in no place to suggest that's what happened in your case. Also, if they find a hearing problem, they couldn't proceed either. FWIW, there was an odd finding in the first part of our screening. So when we came back for the second part, we had to have a test done by the audiologist to rule out another problem before proceeding to the CAP evaluation. It makes sense to me as a reason for them to break the testing into to parts for that screening aspect, in addition to the fact that the second part is long, rather draining, and, IMHO, does tax attention to full capacity for kids with even normal attention spans. I definitely see why they want to wait until seven before doing CAP evaluations, even besides the maturation of the auditory system. When they do the testing, they ramp up to increasing difficulty levels to the point that nearly everyone's processing could break down. I could imagine that being very frustrating.

 

What the Aud.D. told me was that DD had passed the basic attention screen that she did and had some red flags on certain of the auditory processing tests. There was enough concern to warrant doing the second round of CAPD testing, but only after we got an NP eval. She was surprised that we had come to see her first because I guess she normally gets kids referred to her by NP's so they've already had that testing.

 

I just wish it were as easy to get insurance approval for a NP eval. as it was to see the Aud.D. for the CAPD eval. I can understand why our insurance makes it such a pain, because it is a LOT more expensive.

[Tiramisu]

What the Aud.D. told me was that DD had passed the basic attention screen that she did and had some red flags on certain of the auditory processing tests. There was enough concern to warrant doing the second round of CAPD testing, but only after we got an NP eval. She was surprised that we had come to see her first because I guess she normally gets kids referred to her by NP's so they've already had that testing.

 

I just wish it were as easy to get insurance approval for a NP eval. as it was to see the Aud.D. for the CAPD eval. I can understand why our insurance makes it such a pain, because it is a LOT more expensive.

 

What makes this so difficult is that we can get the neuropsych evalutions and the CAP evaluations and find attention problems and CAPD and still not be able to tease them apart. Maybe it doesn't matter in some cases, but for us, though, there was a specific pattern that could not have been due to attention and that knowing the details of has made a tremendous difference is dd's life. For that reason, I'm thankful that we could get the full CAP evaluation done without the neuropsych. You could say that if we couldn't get the CAP evaluation done because a neuropsych gave us an ADD diagnosis, dd would have suffered for it--and I'm not saying that lighly by any means. What we know from the evaluation will help dd for the rest of her life. Of course, we could have had that CAP evaluation done with the ADD diagnosis, but it probably would have required us medicating.

 

I know you have a lot on your plate, Crimson Wife, but I'm confident God is guiding your family through these trials. Hold fast to the belief that all things work for the good for those who love Him. You never know the good that will come from even these littler inconveniences, for your own family or for others. It seems we have gone through years of one thing after another, and I've come to the point when the each new thing comes up, I am increasingly expectant to see the blessing that will come from it--to see how it will help us or someone else down the line, even someone I haven't even met yet. But I don't want to be tested on this. Really. :001_smile:

[Lecka]

I do like The Mislabeled Child. I think it's a good book and interesting.

 

If you are taking book recommendations -- definitely Overcoming Dyslexia is good.

 

Then, I also like the Phonics books by Wiley Blevins -- Phonics A-Z and Teaching Phonics and Word Study in the Intermediate Grades. I have flipped through all the books by him and find them really useful for info about how kids learn to read. They are not a curriculum -- but make me feel like I know *why* things are the way they are in curriculums I have used.

 

Also, on comprehension -- I don't feel like this is an issue, HOWEVER I do a lot to scaffold. My son has trouble with just words -- telling them apart and starting to keep track of them. Just the literal words, not the concepts or ideas involved. These are ideas for dyslexia or general comprehension.

 

First -- pre-teaching vocabulary. He needs a lot of pre-teaching of vocabulary -- the words don't stick with him easily. This is fine with a little work, but if it is not done, things float on over. My husband has told me he would hear a name like Cortez and just not be able to remember it, and in the meantime, when reading he would read that word as "Mr. C." that is literally how he would read names he couldn't pronounce or sound out. Then - - he might not realize it was the same word!!! So I watch for that.

 

Two -- pre-viewing. For this -- one is to link what will be read to existing knowledge. Just like "remember that movie? remember that book?" Also, go ahead and give the high points, the bullet points, ahead of time. This makes it a lot easier for my son as we go through. Much, much easier.

 

Three -- stopping as we go through to make mini-summaries of what is happening. These are called "mini comprehension checks" which I think is a cute name.

 

Four -- and most important I think -- for a real introduction I use Usborne's Encyclopedia of World History, or an Eye Wonder (like Eyewitness) or Kingfisher Young Knowledge... or other book in that style. Basically -- a non-fiction book, full of pictures, with some captions explaining the pictures. My son does SO well with these books. After he has seen something on this, then he can understand wordy text 100 times better. At his age -- storybooks and documentaries are not as helpful, though I can see this changing as he gets older. For many storybooks -- he will understand better if he has already seen a non-fiction picture book about it. He learns about birds and nests from some pictures of birds and nests, and can take that and use it when I read him a story about little johnny finding a nest and wanting to watch the birds. It seems very opposite to me, but it is SO good for him.

 

So -- that is background knowledge. He really needs background knowledge, maybe more than other kids, and he gets it best from those big realistic-photo books. I see different ideas for the background knowledge -- like trips to museums or storybooks or documentaries, depending on how kids learn best -- but for my son right now it is definitely these books.

 

That is what has worked for him... but all of this is stuff I see mentioned for dyslexia and comprehension in general, and this is what is most useful to us.

 

I think these are good for all kids, though, and can't go wrong. My son doesn't have comprehension issues, but if I just read him SOTW he would. But if I had pre-taught a lot of the content in ways he picks stuff up really well, I think he would be fine. (I don't know -- haven't actually read him SOTW). So -- I didn't say he had comprehension problems before, b/c really he doesn't. But b/c he does have problems with words I know he cannot listen to some things "cold" that other children could.

 

Also, for phonemic awareness -- my son had real struggles. If she doesn't do well, you can go to a more intensive program. Also, many programs assume children are able to tell apart all the sounds at the beginning. So, that is another reason she might struggle with a phonemic awareness program. Plenty of kids do not struggle -- but if she does it could be that the program is intended for kids who pick it up easily, and she needs more.

 

edit -- Not sure how helpful this is if you end up not looking at dyslexia-ish stuff. But I think kids should be expected to listen to narrative texts like SOTW, but it is really common with dyslexia for that not to be a friendly learning style, even though it is very friendly to many children with different strengths -- who might not do as well with learning from non-fiction books.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Lecka

[partyof5]

Thank you Lecka for your very helpful reply.

I'm making quite a list on the library inter-library loan system so I DO appreciate your suggested reading!

 

And I like your ideas about pre-reading activities in the content areas to build background knowledge and can see a lot of applications that might help us. She is very visual I'm finding, and while I usually save the more "fun" picture books for after our core readings, I think it would be wise to use them first and I have no idea why I couldn't have thought of this before!!

 

The vocabulary is a big piece and I can already think of some easy ways to introduce these tough words ahead of time...thanks for that tip. This is a particularly tough issue with science. She likes the Apologia "exploring creation" books (b/c she does them with her big sister) but they are SO wordy I think we might find more success with something else...

 

Thanks again for taking the time to share so much detail!