Please comment on my ds's reading list

[lewelma]

I have received so many good comments about The Hunchback vs Les Miserable that I thought I would ask for comments on the whole reading list. Some of you might have been a part of my previous reading thread on the accelerated board.

My ds is a very good reader. He likes odd. He likes beautiful language and big words. He also likes for books to have something interesting to talk about (he loved The Time Machine by Wells, for example, we had a great discussion on what it was saying about the Victorian society). He likes to choose from a selection of reading, so I pick a bunch of books, and he chooses from a few options, so I make a list every year with probably a third too many books. If he likes an author, he will read more by that author, if not, no worries. If he hates a book, he does not have to finish it (this has happened only 3 times).

 

On my earlier Hunchback thread, I was very interested to hear that some of the books I have on his list have no real depth to discuss. He probably would not like them. He did not like Joan of Arc by Twain or The White Company by Doyle, because they had no layered complexity. In 8th grade I will make a unit on Horror, Russian Lit, and more Distopians (which is why things like 1984 are not on this year's list). I have written a list of books he has already read here ( http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371304 ).

 

I would love to hear your opinions about these books.

 

Thanks!

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Early modern: Europe

Three Muskateers, Dumas

Twenty Years After, Dumas

Man in the Iron Mask, Dumas

Rob Roy, Scott

Mutiny on the Bounty, Nordhoff

Count of Monte Cristo, Dumas

The Scarlett Pimpernel, Orczy

Tale of Two Cities, Dickens

Coral Island, Ballantyne

Les Miserable, Hugo

 

Early modern: America

The House of the Seven Gables, Hawthorne

Autobiography of Ben Franklin

Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas

Red Badge of Courage, Crane

Gone with the Wind, Mitchell

Huck Fin, Twain

Pudd'nhead Wilson, Twain

Innocents Abroad, Twain

 

Late Modern

Travels with Charley, Steinbeck

Gift of the Magi (and others), O Henry

To Kill a Mockingbird, Lee

 

Distopian

Iron Heel, London, 1908

Anthem by Ayn Rand, 1937

Walden 2, Skinner, 1948

Farenheit 451, Bradbury, 1953

Chrysalids, Windham, 1955

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? PK Dick, 1968

Running Man, Bachman (King), 1982

House of Scorpian, N Farmer, 2002

Uglies, Westerfield, 2005

Hunger Games, Collins, 2011

 

Classic Sci Fi

Invisible Man, Wells

Mysterious Island, Verne

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Heinlein

Lost World, Doyle

The Star Diaries, Lem

A Perfect Vacuum, Lem

 

Nonfiction Science and History

The Disappearing Spoon

Uncle Tungsten

Napoleon's Buttons

Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden, Braid

[Deniseibase]

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress has some very ODD sexual attitudes in it that you may not want to expose him to, or at least you will want to discuss - group marriage is the norm, and I seem to remember one grown man character saying something at one point along the lines of the only thing more attractive than a pregnant 14 year old is a pregnant 14 year old with a baby on her back. Also, a lot of Heinlein's works treat incest as a great thing for all concerned, I can't remember if that's specifically in Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but you probably want to check for it. Definitely one to pre-read if you haven't already read it! :-)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yep, I have to be careful about which Heinlein I hand to my kids. Starship Troopers is a good read with discussions of things like capital punishment, obligations of citizens and warfare.

 

Uglies was amusing, but definitely had a cliffhanger ending leading into the next books. I tired of the series before I finished the third.

 

What about Jack Finney? Time and Again is a cool time travel novel (was the inspiration for the movie Somewhere in Time with Christopher Reeves and Jane Seymore). About Time is a set of incredible short stories about time and alternate realities.

[lewelma]

Thanks for the heads up on Heinlein. I have not pre-read his books, and will get my dh to start doing asap.

 

Uglies is obviously not a classic of any sort, but I was hoping to compare and contrast different decades' worries by seeing the distopians that had been written. I could definitely dump it. Would you consider the time book/short stories that you suggested distopian or more sci fi?

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited June 16, 2012 by lewelma

[Embassy]

The Invisible Man by Well is a bit odd, but quite violent towards the end.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Finney is classic time travel sci fi.

[flyingiguana]

I'd probably toss some Le Guin into the science fiction/fantasy. (But check for age-appropriate moralities first). I like the way she writes a lot better than many of the other SF novels published around that time. It tends to lean more toward literary writing. Also, her books like A Wizard of Earthsea and The Tombs of Atuan throw in a lot of mythology and culture from around the world. (I think she has an anthropology degree, as well as being the daughter of the Berkeley anthropologist who "studied" Ishi.) She's written a number of other novels, but the two I mentioned might be the "cleanest".

 

And I've never been much impressed with Heinlein. Maybe there was more there than I gave him credit for, but he seemed to be leaning into the pervert end of things, and not in the way Lolita handled it (where one got the sense that the author was trying to explain how a mind like that worked, not that one admired it).

 

I have to admit that I wouldn't put The Hunger Games in unless you just want something current and "fun" (fun, because everyone else is reading it). Those books haven't exactly gone through the culling process of time so I wouldn't call them literature yet.

 

But I've got a bias against dystopian novels written for the younger reader. While they might toss in an important theme or two, I'm not sure any of these current dystopian novels are going to stand the test of time. If you've got a strong reader who's going to read them anyway, then, sure, but I wouldn't clutter up the list with these sorts of things if it's going to keep the student from other classics.

 

As a comparison, my kids hated books like The Giver at that age. They thought they were written way beneath their comprehension level. They're a bit older now, but still have given The Hunger Games a pass. I think a lot of their dislike is based on snippets of it that they've seen passed around on the web. They think the writing is atrocious -- dumbed down and talking down to the reader. (It could be that these bits getting passed around are the worst parts, but that's the opinion they've formed.)

 

My kids, while they wolfed down Harry Potter at the time those came out, now rather dislike the books. They see the writing as being rather awkward, and kind of wish Rowling had stopped after the first book or two -- before it got to be just pumping out another book.

 

I'm just mentioning these things in case you've got a reader of similar tastes. I think I spoiled my kids by giving them way too many classics. It's difficult for them to take most mass market books seriously now.

 

BTW -- you might try Dracula. It does allude to some sexual themes now and again, but you kind of have to be on your toes to catch them. My daughter liked that way better than Frankenstein.

 

A science non fiction book that my kids found really fascinating was Next of Kin (by Fouts) about the chimpanzees that were taught to sign in ASL (or some facsimile of it). There's still a controversy on whether this experiment was successful or not, so it led them into reading a lot about the topic.

 

Also Godel Escher Bach is quite the tome. I remember in my college days that the "thing" was to carry that book around and claim that you were reading it, but I never personally knew anyone who actually finished it. It may be that one needs a bit more background and maturity to get through it. So while I might try it on a kid who was interested, I wouldn't push to have it finished.

[flyingiguana]

BTW -- The Moonstone is a great book. I think the writing is way better than Dickens, the *humor* is way funnier, and it's a mystery besides. There's also points of discussion in terms of cultural norms and such.

 

I just finished The Woman in White too. I didn't like it quite as well (there wasn't the humor), but it was still pretty good.

 

Has he read everything on the Ambleside list already?

http://www.amblesideonline.org/curriculum.shtml

Some of them are probably worth skipping, but there are lots and lots on there to choose from. I'd go back and pick up all the ones in the early years that he might have missed. Most of these are written at what would be considered an adult reading level these days.

 

Also, Pride and Prejudice isn't just a romance novel. It also has really great writing and fascinating character descriptions. I know there are actually a fair number of men who find it an interesting read, so I wouldn't dismiss a book like that.

 

Has he read many biographies? There are also a lot of history books that might be interesting. Rediscovering Homer and Women's Work:The first 20,000 years are a couple my kids enjoyed. There are tons on US history as well.

 

If he hasn't read Padraic Colum, those are pretty good. And the Rosemary Sutcliff retelling of the Iliad and Odyssey are good, no matter what he thinks of her other books. They're rather different in writing style.

 

And don't underestimate the power of rereading. I reread stuff all the time. It was great. I found all kinds of things I'd missed the first time. My kids also do this a lot.

[marbel]

I recently read The Three Musketeers. It was a fun read, but a fair bit of it is bedroom farce, infidelity/adultery, etc. The wealthy mistress of a Musketeer deceives her husband to give her lover money. A Musketeer visits a lady's bedroom late at night and pretends to be her lover. Nothing graphic, but it definitely shows that sort of thing in a comic light. I decided to wait till my kids were a little more mature before handing that one off to them. YMMV, of course! ;)

[Candid]

I read a lot of science back in the 70s when I was about your son's age. My dad like science fiction so he had some picks for me and I just read and read. Went through our local library, used book stores, etc. At that point there weren't rows of science fiction available. It was just beginning to have shelf space.

 

So when I say your two lists with science fiction on them have some places that leave me flat. Here's the thing: old science fiction in the "golden age" (30s, 40s, and 50s) was almost totally short stories in pulp magazines. Some of those stories got remade into novels, but the core was short stories. Many of the folks people read for science fiction fall into this category: Heinlein, Asimov, Bradbury, Blish, Dick, etc. So when I see people reading a lot of novels for this time period, I kind of cringe because novels and short stories are different; and honestly, I've read both in these folks works, the short stories were more powerful.

 

Sure if you find someone you like go onto to novels, but to capture that impluse, short stories are the way to go.

 

I would encourage you to think beyond novels for this category. I like this collection:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Fiction-Hall-Fame-Vol/dp/0765305372/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1339874921&sr=8-3&keywords=classic+short+science+fiction

 

Based on your description of you son, he could try reading Kafka's Metamorphosis. I think it is odd enough he'll like it.

 

My one big warning is that some of these works you may want to come back to later, if he won't want to do that, then you may wish to hold them off. Even if he likes them now, he'll get more out of the later.

[lewelma]

The Invisible Man by Well is a bit odd, but quite violent towards the end.

 

Was the "bit odd" a good thing. My ds likes odd, but there is *odd* and then there is *ODD.*:001_smile:

 

I have to admit that I wouldn't put The Hunger Games in.... I think I spoiled my kids by giving them way too many classics. It's difficult for them to take most mass market books seriously now.

YES this is my child. I thought he might enjoy reading Hunger Games from the point of view of an anthropologist. Having read many good, deep distopians, we could then compare it to the pop culture reads. But right now he has told me that he does NOT want to read it, so it might be one on the list that falls off.

 

BTW -- you might try Dracula.

It is on the list for next year with Poe for a unit on horror.

 

A science non fiction book that my kids found really fascinating was Next of Kin (by Fouts)

Will go look it up

 

Also Godel Escher Bach is quite the tome.

 

My ds is quite a mathy kid and told me last week that he wants to BE a mathematician. So it will be interesting to see what he thinks of this book.

 

Thanks for all the ideas.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Embassy]

Was the "bit odd" a good thing. My ds likes odd, but there is *odd* and then there is *ODD.*:001_smile:

 

Yes, it was an interesting read with suspense and an unpredictable story line. As long as he can handle people being hacked to death he should like it.

[lewelma]

BTW -- The Moonstone is a great book. I think the writing is way better than Dickens, the *humor* is way funnier, and it's a mystery besides. There's also points of discussion in terms of cultural norms and such.

 

I just finished The Woman in White too. I didn't like it quite as well (there wasn't the humor), but it was still pretty good.

 

Thanks for these. My ds has not like Dickens in the past because he finds him depressing. Will definitely look into Collins.

 

Has he read everything on the Ambleside list already?

http://www.amblesideonline.org/curriculum.shtml

Yes, he has read almost all of them. I have used that list for years.

 

Also, Pride and Prejudice isn't just a romance novel. It also has really great writing and fascinating character descriptions. I know there are actually a fair number of men who find it an interesting read, so I wouldn't dismiss a book like that.

Funny, I have hated that book both times I read it! I just don't think he will be able to get into it yet.

 

Has he read many biographies? There are also a lot of history books that might be interesting. Rediscovering Homer and Women's Work:The first 20,000 years are a couple my kids enjoyed. There are tons on US history as well.

No he has read NONE. I have tried sporadically over the years. Could you give me some more recommendations please.

 

If he hasn't read Padraic Colum, those are pretty good. And the Rosemary Sutcliff retelling of the Iliad and Odyssey are good, no matter what he thinks of her other books. They're rather different in writing style.

Yes, read those authors. Doesn't really like Sutcliff. Too bad because she is great as far as I am concerned.

 

And don't underestimate the power of rereading. I reread stuff all the time. It was great. I found all kinds of things I'd missed the first time. My kids also do this a lot.

This is a very good point. He typically rereads everything when his younger brother reads it, and I kept thinking it was a waste of time. But perhaps not.

 

Thanks so much! (reminder, a few biography ideas please)

 

Ruth in NZ

[lewelma]

Yes, it was an interesting read with suspense and an unpredictable story line. As long as he can handle people being hacked to death he should like it.

yes. he loves blood.:D

[lewelma]

I recently read The Three Musketeers. It was a fun read, but a fair bit of it is bedroom farce, infidelity/adultery, etc. The wealthy mistress of a Musketeer deceives her husband to give her lover money. A Musketeer visits a lady's bedroom late at night and pretends to be her lover. Nothing graphic, but it definitely shows that sort of thing in a comic light. I decided to wait till my kids were a little more mature before handing that one off to them. YMMV, of course! ;)

 

Thanks for the heads up. I will go read a summary and make a judgement.

 

I have a more general question for you. Is there anything good to discuss in The Three Musketeers or other books by Dumas? I am getting mixed opinions about Dumas. What I really want is books like The Time Machine or Call of the Wild that have lots of really good depth lurking behind a great story. My ds didn't like The White Company by Dolye because it was JUST a story.

 

Thanks,

 

Ruth in NZ

[lewelma]

So when I say your two lists with science fiction on them have some places that leave me flat. Here's the thing: old science fiction in the "golden age" (30s, 40s, and 50s) was almost totally short stories in pulp magazines. Some of those stories got remade into novels, but the core was short stories. Many of the folks people read for science fiction fall into this category: Heinlein, Asimov, Bradbury, Blish, Dick, etc. So when I see people reading a lot of novels for this time period, I kind of cringe because novels and short stories are different; and honestly, I've read both in these folks works, the short stories were more powerful.

This is fascinating. Can you tell me which books on my list specifically fall into the flat category.

 

We did a unit on sci fi last year that he loved probably because we really discussed them in terms of the era and technology and how they influenced each other.

 

Verne: From the Earth to the Moon, Journey to the Center of the Earth, 20000 leagues under the sea

Wells: Time Machine, War of the Worlds,

Peake: Ghormenghast trilogy

Heinlein: Space Man Jones, Star Beast, and others

Asimov: The Foundation Series, I Robot

 

He did not like the foundation series, but LOVED the others on the list. Obviously Heinlein is a bit of a light weight compared to the others, but we have an adult neighbor with a bookshelf of pop sci fi that was lending them to my ds.

 

Sure if you find someone you like go onto to novels, but to capture that impluse, short stories are the way to go.

I would encourage you to think beyond novels for this category. I like this collection:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Fiction-Hall-Fame-Vol/dp/0765305372/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1339874921&sr=8-3&keywords=classic+short+science+fiction

 

Based on your description of you son, he could try reading Kafka's Metamorphosis. I think it is odd enough he'll like it.

Just put them both in my cart. His favorite book of all time is Titus Groan by Mervin Peake -- that might give you a sense of his preferences. Odd but WELL written.

 

My one big warning is that some of these works you may want to come back to later, if he won't want to do that, then you may wish to hold them off. Even if he likes them now, he'll get more out of the later.

He really loves to read and have deep ideas to ponder. I think he will come back to the ones he loves.

 

Thanks so much for your help,

 

Ruth in NZ