Raising an eyebrow with MOH

[Jeanne in MN]

We will be starting our second round of history this year going back to the ancients. We used SOTW our first time around. Loved it, but really want Bible history with it this time around.

 

I'm reading through MOH and they are talking about an ice age after the great flood, that dinosaurs were created on the 5th or 6th day, therefore they co-existed with man and most likely were taken aboard the ark and so on. They also talk about how dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible, namely a Behemoth and a Leviathon, and from my resaearch those names can mean like a crocodile and hippo or something like that.( I looked it up a number of months ago and I don't precisely remember-but it wasn't dinosaurs. )

 

I've never heard things quite like this before and am unsure about it. Any thoughts? Anyone else questioned this or maybe the rest of the book is more believable?

[VaKim]

Well, personally, I agree with it. And so does Answers In Genesis, if you have ever checked out their site. Of course, that is only the first few lessons or whatever, so it wouldn't be hard to just sort of skim over those parts if you still wanted to use it.

 

Just wanted you to know it is not some "out there" idea that she just made up, so that you'd have to wonder about the rest of her program as well. :)

[praisefor3]

We are still going to use MOH as, frankly, I decided that I don't know enough - and possibly won't til heaven - to be able to definitively argue against those things. The dinosaur thing seemed more like she was taking some liberty, not completely contradicting. We are just getting started so I can't say for sure, but everything else seemed to be in line with our thinkings. My dh, the scientist, raises his eyebrows at the things you mentioned but, again, we decided to make them non issues. HOWEVER, I would love to hear any other responses or Biblical foundations for her ideas. The rest of her theology seems sound...so far.

[siloam]

We will be starting our second round of history this year going back to the ancients. We used SOTW our first time around. Loved it, but really want Bible history with it this time around.

 

I'm reading through MOH and they are talking about an ice age after the great flood, that dinosaurs were created on the 5th or 6th day, therefore they co-existed with man and most likely were taken aboard the ark and so on. They also talk about how dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible, namely a Behemoth and a Leviathon, and from my resaearch those names can mean like a crocodile and hippo or something like that.( I looked it up a number of months ago and I don't precisely remember-but it wasn't dinosaurs. )

 

I've never heard things quite like this before and am unsure about it. Any thoughts? Anyone else questioned this or maybe the rest of the book is more believable?

 

My understanding, which I am sure is limited, is that those creatures referenced could be a number of things. We just know they were big, thus they could have been dinosaurs because Job is the oldest book in the Bible. From what I remember I think Job pre-dates Abraham. You have to remember that when they translate these old languages, that unless they can find additional references to them in other literature or elsewhere in the Bible itself, well then it really deteriorates into personal opinion. I mean you might be able to see that the root of the word is something recognizable, but you really don't know what they were talking about. For example Acts is one of the most difficult books to translate because of the nautical terms, which don't appear elsewhere in the Bible or in much outside literature. :001_smile:

 

For those who are of an older earth creation stance, they would generally agree with an evolutionary timeline of the dinosaurs. For those who are young earth creationists (who believe in a literal 7 day creation), well they had to co-exist because they were both created on the same day. :D Most Young Earth people believe we get our current fossils from the effects of the flood-all the dinosaurs being drowned in a short period of time and buried in sediment that the waters kicked up. I believe Young Earth then splits into two groups. One that believes that was probably the end of the dinosaurs, and the other that theorizes that they were on the ark, but they didn't thrive in the new climate, didn't grow as big, and didn't have as large of populations. Those people figure the last of the dinosaurs were hunted down and killed in the middle ages, and were the source of most of the dragon myths-might not have been myth at all.

 

I don't know any Young Earth people who are dogmatic about it, because it can't be backed up by the Bible. It is just another possibility that doesn't contradict the Bible. :001_cool:

 

Heather

[jg_puppy]

I've never heard things quite like this before and am unsure about it. Any thoughts? Anyone else questioned this or maybe the rest of the book is more believable?

 

I had not heard of this until I started homeschooling. My husband has read read through some of MOH and he doesn't agree with the first few chapters. He kept reading and it does seem to match what we believe much better after the first few chapters. I am probably going to only use MOH as a supplement, but I am going to skip the first few chapters.

 

Jan

[Susie in MS]

If you read the description given in the Bible when Behemoth and Leviathan are mentioned you will see that the animals given in the center column reference will NOT fit the bill. Answers in Genesis covers this quite well.

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp

 

We all know that dinos existed (and some of us believe there are a few left), so why is it so hard to realize that the Creator of those dinos will mention them in His Word? That baffles me.

[Jeanne in MN]

If you read the description given in the Bible when Behemoth and Leviathan are mentioned you will see that the animals given in the center column reference will NOT fit the bill. Answers in Genesis covers this quite well.

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp

 

We all know that dinos existed (and some of us believe there are a few left), so why is it so hard to realize that the Creator of those dinos will mention them in His Word? That baffles me.

 

I believe God could mention dinosaurs in His word. I'd just seen different translations of Behemoth and Leviathan and was unsure which one to believe. I for sure had never heard of Noah taking dinosaurs on the ark or that time period being followed by an ice age.

 

Thank you for the link to Answers in Genesis-it was very interesting!

[Jeanne in MN]

My understanding, which I am sure is limited, is that those creatures referenced could be a number of things. We just know they were big, thus they could have been dinosaurs because Job is the oldest book in the Bible. From what I remember I think Job pre-dates Abraham. You have to remember that when they translate these old languages, that unless they can find additional references to them in other literature or elsewhere in the Bible itself, well then it really deteriorates into personal opinion. I mean you might be able to see that the root of the word is something recognizable, but you really don't know what they were talking about. For example Acts is one of the most difficult books to translate because of the nautical terms, which don't appear elsewhere in the Bible or in much outside literature. :001_smile:

 

For those who are of an older earth creation stance, they would generally agree with an evolutionary timeline of the dinosaurs. For those who are young earth creationists (who believe in a literal 7 day creation), well they had to co-exist because they were both created on the same day. :D Most Young Earth people believe we get our current fossils from the effects of the flood-all the dinosaurs being drowned in a short period of time and buried in sediment that the waters kicked up. I believe Young Earth then splits into two groups. One that believes that was probably the end of the dinosaurs, and the other that theorizes that they were on the ark, but they didn't thrive in the new climate, didn't grow as big, and didn't have as large of populations. Those people figure the last of the dinosaurs were hunted down and killed in the middle ages, and were the source of most of the dragon myths-might not have been myth at all.

 

I don't know any Young Earth people who are dogmatic about it, because it can't be backed up by the Bible. It is just another possibility that doesn't contradict the Bible. :001_cool:

 

Heather

 

Thank you, Heather, for a very insightful post. I really enjoyed reading it. :)

[Jeanne in MN]

Well, personally, I agree with it. And so does Answers In Genesis, if you have ever checked out their site. Of course, that is only the first few lessons or whatever, so it wouldn't be hard to just sort of skim over those parts if you still wanted to use it.

 

Just wanted you to know it is not some "out there" idea that she just made up, so that you'd have to wonder about the rest of her program as well. :)

 

VaKim, I sincerely appreciate your patience. I could have easily offended you with my post and I am glad you took the time to kindly point out that you believe it and gave me a source to look into. I checked out the AIG site-very interesting. Thank you. :)

[Jeanne in MN]

We are still going to use MOH as, frankly, I decided that I don't know enough - and possibly won't til heaven - to be able to definitively argue against those things.

 

That's probably more of where I'm at too. Don't know that I need to believe one side or the other, but I'd be interested in understanding both sides better.

[Jeanne in MN]

I had not heard of this until I started homeschooling. My husband has read read through some of MOH and he doesn't agree with the first few chapters. He kept reading and it does seem to match what we believe much better after the first few chapters. I am probably going to only use MOH as a supplement, but I am going to skip the first few chapters.

 

Jan

 

I'm going to keep reading and see what comes up too. Thank you for your input. :)

[VaKim]

VaKim, I sincerely appreciate your patience. I could have easily offended you with my post and I am glad you took the time to kindly point out that you believe it and gave me a source to look into. I checked out the AIG site-very interesting. Thank you. :)

 

I'm not that easily offended, or I'd have to hide under my bed and not come out. :D

I just don't see these things as worth fighting over (not that anybody is fighting), because we are all really just speculating, since the Bible doesn't come right out and explain it. I just wanted you to know that Mrs. Hobar hadn't made it all up on her own, and wasn't some weird, "out there" person whom you couldn't trust. Were she the only person who ever came up with such a notion, it would surely make you wonder how much you could trust anything else she had written. :)

[Lizzie in Ma]

Two great places to go for further research would be..

Answers in Genesis

Institute for Creation Research

 

We love MOH and are just beginning MOH 3

 

 

We will be starting our second round of history this year going back to the ancients. We used SOTW our first time around. Loved it, but really want Bible history with it this time around.

 

I'm reading through MOH and they are talking about an ice age after the great flood, that dinosaurs were created on the 5th or 6th day, therefore they co-existed with man and most likely were taken aboard the ark and so on. They also talk about how dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible, namely a Behemoth and a Leviathon, and from my resaearch those names can mean like a crocodile and hippo or something like that.( I looked it up a number of months ago and I don't precisely remember-but it wasn't dinosaurs. )

 

I've never heard things quite like this before and am unsure about it. Any thoughts? Anyone else questioned this or maybe the rest of the book is more believable?

[kalanamak]

We all know that dinos existed (and some of us believe there are a few left), so why is it so hard to realize that the Creator of those dinos will mention them in His Word? That baffles me.

 

 

Really? I've met several people over the years (at work) who said they believed the fossils of extinct things were put there as is by a deity, often with the idea that they were put there to "test" people's faith. They don't believe the dinos ever existed (nor, I assume, trilobites, etc).

[Susie in MS]

Really? I've met several people over the years (at work) who said they believed the fossils of extinct things were put there as is by a deity, often with the idea that they were put there to "test" people's faith. They don't believe the dinos ever existed (nor, I assume, trilobites, etc).

 

WOW! Okay, I should be more clear when posting. At home everybody who knows me knows that when I say all or everybody (unless I really stress that I mean everybody), I am referring to the majority. On the net I really should be more clear since not all know me. So here goes: MOST folks know that there really were dinos. There are exceptions for everything. ;)

[LadyAberlin]

Well with the behemoth passage it says that it has a tail like the trunk of a tree and so that rules out and elephant or a hippo. I would highly suggest you read the books on the Answers and genesis site. Also In The Great Dinosaur Mystery it shows the carcass of a sea dinosaur that some fisherman pulled up back in the 70's. What I've read is that Noah could have very easily have taken young dinosaurs with him. They didn't have to be the largest of every dinosaur.

[kalanamak]

WOW! Okay, I should be more clear when posting. At home everybody who knows me knows that when I say all or everybody (unless I really stress that I mean everybody), I am referring to the majority. ;)

 

No kidding. I bet if we looked far enough, we could find someone who thinks they ARE a dinosaur!

 

(wandering off into the morning mist singing "We were talking about the space between us all....)

[Susie in MS]

No kidding. I bet if we looked far enough, we could find someone who thinks they ARE a dinosaur!

 

(wandering off into the morning mist singing "We were talking about the space between us all....)

 

:confused::confused::confused:

 

I have NO idea what you are talking about. Did I say something wrong??? What's with the no kidding statement you keep using?

[Susie in MS]

Well with the behemoth passage it says that it has a tail like the trunk of a tree and so that rules out and elephant or a hippo. I would highly suggest you read the books on the Answers and genesis site. Also In The Great Dinosaur Mystery it shows the carcass of a sea dinosaur that some fisherman pulled up back in the 70's. What I've read is that Noah could have very easily have taken young dinosaurs with him. They didn't have to be the largest of every dinosaur.

 

This is exactly what I mean. And Leviathan breaths fire. That doesn't sound like a croc to me. Just closely reading the Bible will reveal a description that does not fit what some believe. Adding those books would really help too. As a side note: Anybody who can go to the AiG Creation Museum in KY....it is fantastic!!!!

[kalanamak]

:confused::confused::confused:

 

I have NO idea what you are talking about. Did I say something wrong??? What's with the no kidding statement you keep using?

 

No, nothing wrong. "No kidding" is a not-rare conversational reply.

 

Example: "I can't believe how bad that traffic is getting around here"

"No kidding! Last night I spent an HOUR trying to get through downtown."

 

My original remark was just sparked by my memories of how often people at work have said that fossils were a creationist deity's way of "testing" people. I have heard it so often, I wondered if there was some popular TV preacher who as broadcast this.

 

My reply to your reply was just poking fun at how "diverse" people can be. I also work at a mental hospital and, e.g., just admitted a man who will only call himself Horus and ACTUALLY believes he is the Egyptian god Horus. At any given time I have one or two Jesus Christs and every year I have at least one dog (I mean person who believes they are a dog and barks and eats without forks, etc). We just discharged the Holy Ghost. As long as her holiness was non-violent and staying at her group home and not straying about the streets touching people, it is time for her to go back. Fixed delusions don't respond well to meds or counseling.

 

As to the odd song I was singing, it is a George Harrison song, from his faux-Hindu stage, and often comes to my mind when dealing with delusional people. I can almost understand psychosis....you hear persistant voices telling you things and sometimes you act on them. But a person who is totally rational in all aspects except that they are 200% positive the government is withholding life-giving secrets found at the wreckage of a UFO, and they end up with us because they just won't stop calling 911 to tell them about it....that is very, very strange to me...and it seems to me there is a "space" between us all that sometimes we cannot cross.

 

:):):):)

[Susie in MS]

Okay, I get cha now! I think part of my problem is that I don't know who George Harrison is, or what he sings. LOL!

That is soooooo sad about those folks you discibed!!! I can only imagine the pain their families must feel. :o(

 

 

No, nothing wrong. "No kidding" is a not-rare conversational reply.

 

Example: "I can't believe how bad that traffic is getting around here"

"No kidding! Last night I spent an HOUR trying to get through downtown."

 

My original remark was just sparked by my memories of how often people at work have said that fossils were a creationist deity's way of "testing" people. I have heard it so often, I wondered if there was some popular TV preacher who as broadcast this.

 

My reply to your reply was just poking fun at how "diverse" people can be. I also work at a mental hospital and, e.g., just admitted a man who will only call himself Horus and ACTUALLY believes he is the Egyptian god Horus. At any given time I have one or two Jesus Christs and every year I have at least one dog (I mean person who believes they are a dog and barks and eats without forks, etc). We just discharged the Holy Ghost. As long as her holiness was non-violent and staying at her group home and not straying about the streets touching people, it is time for her to go back. Fixed delusions don't respond well to meds or counseling.

 

As to the odd song I was singing, it is a George Harrison song, from his faux-Hindu stage, and often comes to my mind when dealing with delusional people. I can almost understand psychosis....you hear persistant voices telling you things and sometimes you act on them. But a person who is totally rational in all aspects except that they are 200% positive the government is withholding life-giving secrets found at the wreckage of a UFO, and they end up with us because they just won't stop calling 911 to tell them about it....that is very, very strange to me...and it seems to me there is a "space" between us all that sometimes we cannot cross.

 

:):):):)

[kalanamak]

Okay, I get cha now! I think part of my problem is that I don't know who George Harrison is, or what he sings. LOL!

:o(

 

 

Ahhh, youth! Geo was one of the Beatles.....now deceased.

[Susie in MS]

Ahhh, youth! Geo was one of the Beatles.....now deceased.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

I wish!!! I am 42!!!!

I do know who the Beatles are, but I have never been into all of the individual folks. I haven't listen to any type of music other than Christian (and the occasional flipping through the radio stations to try to stay awake while driving) in years. So my ignorance shows. :lol: