Logos Press and Omnibus Civil War and Reconstruction

[Hunter]

I was looking at some of the $3.00 Logos Press Literature downloads. I was also poking around the website. The history samples stopped me cold in my tracks. I saw some similar passages in Omnibus.

 

Can someone let me know a little more about what I might expect to find in Omnibus and Logos Press literature, concerning the civil war and reconstruction?

 

This is a big country. Growing up partly in a British colony and partly on the East Coast USA, I'm used to two very different stories about the revolutionary war. I'm trying not to knee-jerk at what I read, but from my background it was startling. Yes, I've heard things like this before, but...not from people I admire, or from newly written texts.

 

I'm not judging. I'm just curious. And also when picking curricula for my tutoring students I want to know what I need to possibly avoid, or tweak, or...learn more about.

 

:confused::bigear::confused:

[Hunter]

No one wants to touch this?

[Spy Car]

You can expect they will be pro-slavery.

 

Bill

[Hunter]

You can expect they will be pro-slavery.

 

Bill

 

I'm confused. Is this a common belief of classical homeschoolers, but just not talked about publicly?

 

I don't understand. I know lots of people here are using these resources. Have I been mistaken in believing that most people in this country no longer defend slavery, both with and without scripture???

 

The talk here is anti-slavery, but...maybe only the anti-slavery people are talking?

 

I'm too confused right now to be sitting in judgement of ANYONE. Really. Can someone just explain to me, what is going on here?

 

I'm planning a year long study of American geography. I have recently realized how incredibly naive I am about the rest of the country, from only having lived on the northern East Coast and oversees. I have been like a 2 year old screaming "There was no Mommy before I was born!". Is egocentric the correct term? I have called others naive, when I am just as naive, or more so than them. This country is larger than many nations combined. To have lived in several countries doesn't make a person more well-informed, than a person that has traveled extensively around this vast nation of ours.

 

:bigear: to ANYTHING that ANYONE wants to share with me, because...I'm :confused:

[LNC]

I'm confused. Is this a common belief of classical homeschoolers, but just not talked about publicly?

 

I don't understand. I know lots of people here are using these resources. Have I been mistaken in believing that most people in this country no longer defend slavery, both with and without scripture???

 

The talk here is anti-slavery, but...maybe only the anti-slavery people are talking?

 

I'm too confused right now to be sitting in judgement of ANYONE. Really. Can someone just explain to me, what is going on here?

 

I'm planning a year long study of American geography. I have recently realized how incredibly naive I am about the rest of the country, from only having lived on the northern East Coast and oversees. I have been like a 2 year old screaming "There was no Mommy before I was born!". Is egocentric the correct term? I have called others naive, when I am just as naive, or more so than them. This country is larger than many nations combined. To have lived in several countries doesn't make a person more well-informed, than a person that has traveled extensively around this vast nation of ours.

 

:bigear: to ANYTHING that ANYONE wants to share with me, because...I'm :confused:

 

A very small subsection of classical homeschoolers consider themselves to be neo-confederate or sympathetic to that viewpoint. I have found neo-confederate/sympathetic book recommendations in Logos, Veritas and Vision Forum. It is a small group however, most classical homeschoolers do not agree with this viewpoint. HTH.

[Chris in VA]

I haven't used or seen Omnibus III and above, only the very first two.

There's actually pro-slavery stuff in Omni III? Really? Or is it just that Veritas recommends other pro-slavery stuff? (What stuff, if someone can elaborate?)

Wow. Glad we didn't go there.

[Hunter]

Thank you all. I found some old threads under "Douglas Wilson".

[jenbrdsly]

I'm still trying hard to presume positive intent. I am willfully believing that most parents who use Veritas Press or who subscribe to Doug Wilson's theories don't really know the full story. I am choosing to believe that those parents are well intentioned, and simply do not understand what they are getting into. In the meantime, I've written my two cents about Doug Wilson here on my blog.

P.S. I full heartedly believe that parents looking to provide a "Classical Christian Education" experience for their children could use The Well Trained Mind as their guidebook. Just because it could also be used to provide a Secular Classical Education, does not mean that it is not "Christian enough".

Edited June 11, 2012 by jenbrdsly

[Hunter]

A very small subsection of classical homeschoolers consider themselves to be neo-confederate or sympathetic to that viewpoint. I have found neo-confederate/sympathetic book recommendations in Logos, Veritas and Vision Forum. It is a small group however, most classical homeschoolers do not agree with this viewpoint. HTH.

 

Is it small for sure? I really can't tell. So many people are choosing not to publicly take sides, and are remaining quiet about their stance, but advocating the curricula without warnings.

 

I'm feeling very quiet and uncertain today, about what is going on here. I've learned not to judge a culture that is distant from the one that I am familiar with, geographically or by time. But even when I don't judge, I'm left feeling all sorts of things.

 

There isn't a single culture in this world--that I know of--that doesn't single out and marginalize a group in some way. Different groups are marginalized, and some marginalization is blatant and some is subtle. Sometimes the quiet, subtle marginalization is the most damaging to the marginalized group. This is something that humans just do to each other, in a variety of ways.

 

I don't get shocked often anymore. And when I do get shocked it usually surprises others. I seem to have unusual criteria for what shocks ME compared to the general population. Today I'm shocked. So I need to be quiet for awhile while I process and figure out the scope of this. :sad:

 

jenbrdsly, the link doesn't work.

[Spy Car]

Is it small for sure? I really can't tell. So many people are choosing not to publicly take sides, and are remaining quiet about their stance, but advocating the curricula without warnings.

 

I'm feeling very quiet and uncertain today, about what is going on here. I've learned not to judge a culture that is distant from the one that I am familiar with, geographically or by time. But even when I don't judge, I'm left feeling all sorts of things.

 

There isn't a single culture in this world--that I know of--that doesn't single out and marginalize a group in some way. Different groups are marginalized, and some marginalization is blatant and some is subtle. Sometimes the quiet, subtle marginalization is the most damaging to the marginalized group. This is something that humans just do to each other, in a variety of ways.

 

I don't get shocked often anymore. And when I do get shocked it usually surprises others. I seem to have unusual criteria for what shocks ME compared to the general population. Today I'm shocked. So I need to be quiet for awhile while I process and figure out the scope of this. :sad:

 

jenbrdsly, the link doesn't work.

 

Unfortunately the deeper you dig into many programs and discover how many of the recommended old public domain books are filled with anachronistic values and see how often those books and programs get a free-pass in the wider homeschool community, the more you're going to be upset.

 

I'm sorry to say that you are in for some pain if you explore this subject.

 

Bill

[jenbrdsly]

 

jenbrdsly, the link doesn't work.

 

 

Sorry about that! http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2012/06/06/be-careful-where-you-get-your-advice/

[Hunter]

Can anyone recommend a book for me, that gives an overview and compares, the world-views and human rights violations of the different regions of the USA?

 

Here in the coastal North East, and in the British colony I was born in, we have our own human rights violations. But these violations are quite different than Paleo-Confederacy. Not lesser, just different. I was told that the withholding of citizenship to the children of families who have lived and worked on the island for 2 generations, is being condemned by the Pope himself. They cannot apply for scholarships, own property, or even drive a car, in the only country that they and their parents have ever known. My mom wasn't allowed to apply for a divorce and had to wait for my dad to charge her with abandonment and then divorce her. In the major northeast cities the violations against people with mental disabilities by emergency-room personnel is continually in the newspapers and courts, and is life threatening. Cape-Cod with all it's beautiful beaches is also known as a hotbed of domestic abuse and patriarchy, the likes of which many social-workers transferring from other parts of the country, and even other parts of the state, have never seen and therefore end out disbelieving the women and children, with fatal results.

 

So I'm not looking across the country, with a high and mighty attitude that where I come from is better, because it's NOT.

 

Especially with the election coming up, I'd like to understand a bit more about what is REALLY going on this VAST country, rather than assuming that the noisy minority is speaking for EVERYONE.

 

I'd also like to know which curricula are the worst for tolerating and advocating human rights violations. I like to always bring it right back to HUMAN rights. Because when we try and defend a marginalized groups, all the offenders do is list the reasons why it is okay to single THIS group out, by attacking them even more, or twisting scripture. Humans are humans and we ARE all equal. But at the core of these violating groups, is the belief that not ALL humans are equal.

 

Are there parts of the USA where the Declaration of Human Rights is considered to be something the Federal Government signed, without giving the individual states the right to veto? I do know that the supplementary Rights of the Child has now been signed by every country of the world except the USA and Somalia. Somalia is at war and doesn't have a government to sign the treaty. In the USA, the excuses are that the homeschool community is the largest party fighting the treaty, and that the government hasn't yet been able to finish setting up protection and right for women and that they can only handle one major human rights violation at a time.

[Parker Martin]

I've never heard anyone defend slavery. I grew up in Oklahoma and Arkansas. Racism here is considered a mark of low class or extreme ignorance.

 

I thought it was assumed that all of us edit or explain changing worldviews when using classic works.

 

(Just as will be done with our works in the future.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Unfortunately the deeper you dig into many programs and discover how many of the recommended old public domain books are filled with anachronistic values and see how often those books and programs get a free-pass in the wider homeschool community, the more you're going to be upset.

 

I'm sorry to say that you are in for some pain if you explore this subject.

 

Bill

 

I agree.

 

In my very humble opinion, the decline of education in America has led to homeschooling parents who are sometimes easily fooled.

 

The organizations in support of these sentiments (Vision Forum, etc.) have tremendous resources, backing, political history, and political clout, so they have grown to be big-name publishers and a huge influence in the conventions.

 

Christian homeschooling parents who attend conventions are exposed to an awful lot of pro-slavery, pro-patriarchy, pro-dominionist teaching. The self-appointed leaders of Christian homeschooling are very adept at interweaving the verbiage until convention-goers are fairly well convinced that their right to homeschool in 2012 hinges upon their allegiance to these organizations and ideologies.

 

Again, just in my opinion, I believe the problem is growing. Consider the growing exclusivity of the larger conventions. It's getting a little cult-like and weird in homeschool world, if you ask me. It could be because the mainstream and normal people have begun staying away and now these leaders are unrestrained because they are talking only to like-minded people.

 

When I go to conventions, I go to meet with local homeschoolers, to learn about specific curriculum, and to shop for curriculum. I also go to find out what Vision Forum, HSLDA, and others are pushing this year. I feel a responsibility to keep abreast of the issues lest I inadvertently support agendas I disagree with in my attempts to support homeschooling generally.

 

I don't take anyone with me to conventions and I don't recommend them to new homeschoolers, because I know that most people will not have exposure to these ideas (sympathetic to slavery, patriarchal, dominionist) in other contexts. I don't want to be responsible for introducing anyone to these systems that I believe to be harmful to women, children, the family, and society.

[jenbrdsly]

I agree.

 

In my very humble opinion, the decline of education in America has led to homeschooling parents who are sometimes easily fooled.

 

The organizations in support of these sentiments (Vision Forum, etc.) have tremendous resources, backing, political history, and political clout, so they have grown to be big-name publishers and a huge influence in the conventions.

 

Christian homeschooling parents who attend conventions are exposed to an awful lot of pro-slavery, pro-patriarchy, pro-dominionist teaching. The self-appointed leaders of Christian homeschooling are very adept at interweaving the verbiage until convention-goers are fairly well convinced that their right to homeschool in 2012 hinges upon their allegiance to these organizations and ideologies.

 

Again, just in my opinion, I believe the problem is growing. Consider the growing exclusivity of the larger conventions. It's getting a little cult-like and weird in homeschool world, if you ask me. It could be because the mainstream and normal people have begun staying away and now these leaders are unrestrained because they are talking only to like-minded people.

 

When I go to conventions, I go to meet with local homeschoolers, to learn about specific curriculum, and to shop for curriculum. I also go to find out what Vision Forum, HSLDA, and others are pushing this year. I feel a responsibility to keep abreast of the issues lest I inadvertently support agendas I disagree with in my attempts to support homeschooling generally.

 

I don't take anyone with me to conventions and I don't recommend them to new homeschoolers, because I know that most people will not have exposure to these ideas (sympathetic to slavery, patriarchal, dominionist) in other contexts. I don't want to be responsible for introducing anyone to these systems that I believe to be harmful to women, children, the family, and society.

 

Tibbie, thank you for sharing this. This was meaningful for me to hear as an Afterschooling parent, because I've never been to a Homeschooling convention.

On SWB's blog she has an interesting post here where she talks about conferences. It sounds like she is frustrated and that she has to navigate a landmine of ideologies.

I've also been curious about her official stance on Doug Wilson, but then again there is the whole "landmine" issue again. She has an interesting essay here, but it has always struck me more of a defense for TheWTM rather than a clear opposition to pro-slavery sentiment.

I've always operated under the assumption that SWB is an educated, literate, caring person and probably things Veritas Press is as awful as I do. But of course, you can't put words in other people's mouths.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I really appreciate SWB's tone concerning the whole thing. I agree, she does seem to be very aware of all of these issues, but does her part to provide homeschoolers with excellent materials without personally stepping into the fray (even when it lands on her doorstep!).

 

If I were in her shoes I'd have engaged in open warfare long before now. SWB is very gracious, indeed.

[anissarobert]

I would caution anyone to read Wilson's arguments before assuming anything or being inflammatory. His arguments tend to be about how to have a Biblical understanding of the issue of slavery. He points out what the Bible actually says and advises people to think about issues Biblically and not emotionally. I don't believe he is actually advocating for a return to the practice of slavery and he renounces the atrocities committed during the Civil War.

 

Personally, I don't agree with everything Wilson writes, but he always makes me think deeply about issues. The Omnibus books are a wonderful aid to discussing great books from a Christian worldview. There are things in them that I can not advocate, but I don't have to agree with everything in the curriculum in order to use it.

[Ellie]

I don't read Doug Wilson.

 

I do, however, believe that there are more than two sides regarding the War of Northern Agression, at least one of which has nothing whatsoever to do with slavery but everything to do with states' rights.

 

If the people who lived during those times couldn't settle things without war, we certainly aren't going to solve things here, either.

[Hunter]

Anissarobert and Ellie, thank you for your posts. I'm not trying to solve anything. I'm just trying to understand, something I have obviously been misunderstanding.

 

I've been fed a line of propaganda about what this country believes as a WHOLE, that is not true.