Phonics, LoE, Spalding, Saxton

[BugsMama]

Someone help me! I have the general idea down of spalding is the original, and the others are the spin offs.... but I need help picking which ONE to use.

 

We have been using All About Spelling and PAL Reading, but it has too many "parts" to it, and we end up just writing the words. I don't want to keep paying that price, when we simplify it. I love that it is rules based, and I love that the word lists have one "rule" at a time. We don't love the games with PAL, but we liked marking the words.

 

I've read and think I understand The Writing Road to Reading. I wish it was more laid out as to what to do when, and I can see us being quite bored with the lists upon lists. I am hoping for something *easier* for me to teach. (I am considering taking the book and typing up my own lesson plans, so that is on the table.... and yes, I have read all the spalding threads I could find)

 

The WRTR grade level teachers guides are an option, but again, there isn't much information on them, and they seem really expensive to buy each year.

 

I like all the "good things" I have read about logic of english, and from their forums, it seems like I could get this and just move at a slower pace with my son (who is 6).

 

We love Saxton Math (K-3) and how scripted it is. I love that it is easy for me. I keep looking at their phonics program, but can't find much information from people who use it. I am considering getting the remedial level, and adapting it for younger children.

 

I am not a strong speller (victim of creative spelling here!) and have loved learning the phonetic/spelling rules as well. I like "coding" the words, and don't love spalding's methods for coding. I would prefer a dictionary style.

 

I don't mind reading ahead, or adapting a more advanced program to suit my younger children.

 

My kids are emergent readers (both the 4 and 6).

 

Ideally, I want something for phonics/reading/spelling that is O-G or Spalding based, open and go, that would serve us for many years, rather than buying multiple levels. The less consumeable, the better, as I have multiple young children. Bonus points if it has strong handwriting, grammar, lit, comprehension components.

 

So far I have purchased and returned PAL Reading (we gave it a good try) and Phonics Pathways. I have WRTR in my hand now.

[BugsMama]

Also- the Writing Road to Reading I have in my hand is a third edition.... it has an actual RECORD of the phonograms in the back. Maybe the more recent editions are better laid out?

[besroma]

Also- the Writing Road to Reading I have in my hand is a third edition.... it has an actual RECORD of the phonograms in the back. Maybe the more recent editions are better laid out?

 

 

I'm still getting a handle on mine, but based on recommendations here (I think Ellie and Hunter), I purchased the fifth and sixth editions. I had the binding cut off the sixth edition to reorganize it.

 

There have been quite a few Spalding threads that might be helpful.

[BugsMama]

There have been quite a few Spalding threads that might be helpful.

 

I've spent all day on here reading them.... and..... am still not sure what curriculum I want/need. :lol:

[deerforest]

I have the Writing Road 6th edition, How to Teach Spelling, AAS 1-3, The ABCs and All Their Tricks, and LoE, and many other things.... I'm also a professional writer and former neurolinguist. These two points are just to help justify my personal obsession with this topic. ;)

 

This month I just decided to stop AAS and switch to LoE. There are many reasons why, and they might not match your reasons. But, so far we are very happy with the switch. We were tired of all the pieces of AAS, its repetition was bogging us down. It was also S L O W for us, but speeding it up wasn't helping. I can't quite explain what was wrong. We LOVED AAS 1; it was what she needed at the time, but it just didn't work anymore. I also work full time and simply didn't have the time to deal with structuring WRTR on my own. I'm generally not a fan of overly scripted curriculums, but LoE seemed to feel okay for me because there are so many optional things.

 

We're only on lesson 3 of LoE, and it is review so far since we were about to start AAS 3, but we both already like it more. There is some more variety (so far). We like the games. DD likes completing the work in cursive in the "cursive workbook" (it made it seem more important to her to use cursive in it... we are not using the cursive curriculum; we use HWOT).

 

The grammar is a review, but it's not a big deal. We're still recovering from the failure of FLL to stick in her brain (she's fabulous at memorizing things but since it's no effort on her part she has no retention), and we are doing MCT too. I have had to make a chart (for myself at first) to match up the abbreviations MCT and LoE use for identifying parts of speech, etc. I prefer the MCT ones because they are more aligned with standard abbreviations.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited June 2, 2012 by deerforest

[ondreeuh]

Make sure you're spelling Saxon right when you do your searches - you'll find more hits that way :)

 

I don't have experience with the programs yet, but plan to do PAL with my youngest and Saxon Phonics Intervention with my 5th grader.

 

Instead of adapting the Intervention level for younger students, I would just start with 2nd grade. It reviews the 1st grade material before moving on. Christian Books has great samples. HTH.

[Dinsfamily]

Have you looked at Spell to Write and Read? It is not scripted but it was what I needed when I was trying to implement Spalding but didn't know how with just WRTR. Like WRTR, there aren't different levels to buy. The WISE guide has the spelling lists with example sentences, pre-list activities (which phonograms, spelling rules and reference pages to learn/review), and enrichments for each list on a two page spread. It does take a bit of studying to get going but then became open-and-go for me. There is also a yahoo group that is very helpful. All that's needed each year after the initial purchase is a new spelling log which run $5 for K-2 and $12 for 3+.

[Hunter]

I've got several different ones spread out on the floor. Sigh!

 

I always end out back with Spalding cursive handwriting though. That's all I can say.

 

WRTR makes me MAD. I don't know if they are just stupid or toying with me, when it comes to the integrated language arts. The Core does the same thing. Here let us simplify the whole process, but leave out bits here and there and then keep teasing you into buying more and more pieces that ALMOST get you set to teach. You gotta love how the core won't even sell their best items to you, that are based on the favorite chapters in The Core.

 

I have the older version of the K and 2 guides. They don't help enough, and they are big and awkward to handle. I wouldn't sell them for anything, because I am phonics obsessed and all my phonics curricula are my babies, even the ones I throw across the room.

[BugsMama]

Make sure you're spelling Saxon right when you do your searches - you'll find more hits that way :)

 

:lol: I told you my spelling was bad.... and it's late here in Germany :001_huh: valid excuse, no?

[BugsMama]

I've got several different ones spread out on the floor. Sigh!

 

:D I think you and I may be soulmates.... I don't know why I keep buying phonics, other than I am fascinated by it. I wasn't taught these things! Hooked on Phonics, Phonics Pathways, Pal Reading, Starfall, Progressive Phonics, WRTR, AAS....

[BugsMama]

I have the older version of the K and 2 guides. They don't help enough, and they are big and awkward to handle.

 

Alright, so those are the grade level spalding teachers guides, right? So that rules those out.....

 

Now I'm down to Saxon Phonics, LoE and SRW

[Hunter]

Alright, so those are the grade level spalding teachers guides, right? So that rules those out.....

 

Now I'm down to Saxon Phonics, LoE and SRW

 

And they have a horrible resale value. I got mine cheap because no one wants them, especially at certain times of the year. I wait till someone gets sick of bumping their product and I offer them a ridiculously low price and tell them to sit on it, and weeks later they PM me and say okay.

 

Alright, so those are the grade level spalding teachers guides, right? So that rules those out.....

 

Now I'm down to Saxon Phonics, LoE and SRW

 

Well SWR has nice spelling rule flash cards and the companion CDs allow an older student to drill themselves. The alpha list is nice for a student to look up misspelled words if they are they type to actually do that. But the manual is a complete joke, and the sentences are ridiculous and useless. But that is just MY opinion.

 

Add Riggs to your list for the very BEST notebook instructions. And Phonics Made Plain comes with a poster and the cards have references to ABCs and All their Tricks. I'm told that Spelling Plus comes with dictation sentences that ONLY include previously taught spelling words. I want that so badly, but I have promised myself I will cut back my spending, and I just bought some Professor B and the Evan-Moor Geography Units that are on sale and I think out of print. And Easy Writing might just be the missing piece I need to implement the Spalding sentences, but I can't budget that in either.

 

SO...I have a MESS all over the floor, with SWR partly on the top of the pile, and partly chucked across the room, cause some of it is TRASH to me.

[BugsMama]

Riggs? I've never heard of it... good- more to research!

[Ellie]

I've read and think I understand The Writing Road to Reading. I wish it was more laid out as to what to do when, and I can see us being quite bored with the lists upon lists. I am hoping for something *easier* for me to teach. (I am considering taking the book and typing up my own lesson plans, so that is on the table.... and yes, I have read all the spalding threads I could find)

There aren't lists upon lists. There is only one: the Extended Ayres List. :-)

 

You don't really need lesson plans. Each day you'll review phonograms based on how the dc are doing; teach new ones if you're still doing that; and dictate spelling words. The manual tells you how to do each of those things, and that you'll do them daily; you decide how much time, and you decide that each day, because it could change from one day to the next. Spalding is infinitely flexible like that. :-)

 

The WRTR grade level teachers guides are an option, but again, there isn't much information on them, and they seem really expensive to buy each year.

The teacher guides are relataively new, and most homeschoolers aren't going to need them. They're much more useful in a classroom situation, especially one where all English skills are taught with Spalding (most hsers don't do the grammar and writing, and not really the reading, either).

 

I have WRTR in my hand now.

Then you have everything you need. :-)

 

There are a few crutches for the phonograms, and some suggestions on how you might teach 30 words a week. I can tell you those. Otherwise, all you need is the manual, a set of phonogram cards, and the Spelling Assessment Manual.

[lorisuewho]

I was using AAS, but it was slow for us also. Then I bought WRTR and LOVED it and knew that is what I wanted to do, and I think I could have made it work. But then I saw LOE in person, and the rest is history. ...

It is a beautifully scripted program. I love the looks of it but we haven't used it yet to give it a real plug.

[BugsMama]

Ellie- The edition I was able to get from the library is the third edition (it came with a record :lol: I'm still amused at it.... I guess it shows my age to say I have never seen these thin, flimsy records. Solid big ones, sure, but nothing like this. Needless to say- its OLD). Are the newer editions any different/more clear than this one?

 

Also- Does the children writing words with a space between syllables cause long term issues (page one of the notebook)? I can see my 6 year old being very upset with this (as he is a perfectionist).

[BugsMama]

I was using AAS, but it was slow for us also. Then I bought WRTR and LOVED it and knew that is what I wanted to do, and I think I could have made it work. But then I saw LOE in person, and the rest is history. ...

It is a beautifully scripted program. I love the looks of it but we haven't used it yet to give it a real plug.

 

I keep going back to LOE- I have added the stuff to my cart and taken it back out so many times! Can you tell me what parts I really *need*? For example, the game book looks promising, but then how many sets of the game cards would I need also? Then there is a spelling journal? And all the flash cards?

I think I can make the spelling/grammar ones myself on cardstock.

[MyLittleBears]

Just curious ladies. Doesn't the author of Grammarworks("the works people") have lesson plans specifically for use w/WRTR? I think it is supposed to be scripted.

 

Having said that we use and LOVE LOE, but all of these programs are teacher-intensive, some just more than others. Sigh...

Edited June 2, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[BugsMama]

MyLittleBears- How much time a day would you say you spend with LOE?

[lorisuewho]

I keep going back to LOE- I have added the stuff to my cart and taken it back out so many times! Can you tell me what parts I really *need*? For example, the game book looks promising, but then how many sets of the game cards would I need also? Then there is a spelling journal? And all the flash cards?

I think I can make the spelling/grammar ones myself on cardstock.

 

I really like the game book for my crew. It is great. I bought two decks of cards and that is sufficient. As for the spelling journal, you probably could make one yourself with a blank composition book. The flash cards are a very nice quality and I'm glad I got them, but again you definitely could make them yourself. I bought the phonogram cards and the spelling cards. I did not buy the advanced phonogram cards or the grammar ones.

 

You NEED the manual and a workbook.

[MyLittleBears]

MyLittleBears- How much time a day would you say you spend with LOE?

 

We do 5mins for the flashcard review and 30-40 minutes for the actual lesson, stoping wherever we are and pick it right up in the same spot the next day. It takes us about a week or so per lesson. We don't do the grammar portion as we are covering it in other ways but we do almost every optional activity plus the games and the spelling journal. My dyslexic boys seem to need a lot of review so the optional activities and variety are a great help.

 

ETA- We purchased the game book & cards,the phonogram flashcards, workbooks and spelling journal. You don't need the grammar card or the spelling rule cards. I personally like having the spelling rule cards.

Edited June 3, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[Dinsfamily]

Also- Does the children writing words with a space between syllables cause long term issues (page one of the notebook)? I can see my 6 year old being very upset with this (as he is a perfectionist).

 

It hasn't caused any problems here. It does show syllabication nicely. My boys write the syllables separately and do markings when they learn the words on Monday and Tuesday. It is optional during the enrichments on Wednesday and Thursday. They prefer to separate syllables for harder words. My K'er likes to mark everything. I prefer them to write the word normally during the test on Friday but will not mark it wrong if my K'er separates syllables or does markings. He is young and I saw ds8 grow out of that with no issues. They never separate syllables or mark words outside of spelling but it wouldn't bother me if they did. Oh, and ds8 is a perfectionist FWIW. Ds6 is showing signs of that also. The marking system works well with that personality trait.

[BugsMama]

Thank you guys- You've been so helpful!

I think I am going to start by getting the phonics games book and flash cards, and then go from there.

[Seveninthesand]

After several years of looking through the Writing Road to Reading, I have finally decided to implement it in our homeschool for all the same reasons as you. Here is how I did it:

 

1. I made up the phonogram cards according to the directions in the book.

 

2. I made up letter tiles AAS- style.

 

3. I made up rule cards.

 

4. I typed out the word lists on www.spellingcity.com and labeled them according to the grade levels found in the back of WRTR.

 

5. We do oral and written phonogram practice as needed and then I print out the word list from spelling city and we go over the spelling according to the notes in WRTR. I take out any corresponding rule cards (the notes list the applicable rule(s) by number) and we go over that.

 

6. The student spells each word with the letter tiles and writes the word according to the syllabication marks.

 

7. Student practices the words with print-outs from spelling city. There are free activities available to print out with the words you put in.

 

8. Test. We do not move on until the student has achieved mastery of the list.

 

HTH

[Writerdaddy]

I have a question about LoE: is there good information about where in the curriculum to start, based on a students ability?

 

I like this a lot about SWR, while AAS has been slow and awkward for me using it on 8 year old fairly good spellers (they tested at tension level N in SWR, with many correct spelling further on). I took the manuf. and others' advice to start with AAS level 2 but its not been great trying to catch up to my kids level.

 

They got to their spelling level without consistent phonics and no knowledge of spelling rules in PS, so its a mixed bag getting back into phonics and a spelling program.

 

I'm another one in the over-abundance of curricula camp. Just purchased SWR including dvds, and AAS at the same time. I am shamed, but since others were confessing...

 

So far, I do find AAS somehow clunky and slow. I do however like using the tiles and so do my children, age 8 each.

 

I think the SWR program looks sleek and beautiful in practice: I recommend the DVDs from Britta and Sanseri, however you can figure things out from the manual and what's on youtube. I agree the manual is put together terribly, however the info you need is in there and presented sequentially (although you have to skim through lots of distracting text designed to convince you of various values to the approach).

 

The sleek, efficient delivery of SWR in practice is something you can get from the DVDs. Playing with letter tiles on magnetic boards is something you can set up for yourself.

 

LoE looks good indeed but I can't justify buying it. Still some little devil in me wants to know about how it handles jumping into the curriculum according to spelling level of the kid.

[BugsMama]

I have a question about LoE: is there good information about where in the curriculum to start, based on a students ability?

 

From their forum (the author responds to questions)- it seems that they want everyone to do the entire program, and just move as fast as appropriate. It appears that it moves quickly, and you can finish in a year (or less for olders students, more for younger) what AAS takes many, many levels to cover. I'm not sure HOW many levels LOE is equal to if you were to compare it to AAS.

[Ellie]

Ellie- The edition I was able to get from the library is the third edition (it came with a record :lol: I'm still amused at it.... I guess it shows my age to say I have never seen these thin, flimsy records. Solid big ones, sure, but nothing like this. Needless to say- its OLD). Are the newer editions any different/more clear than this one?

 

Also- Does the children writing words with a space between syllables cause long term issues (page one of the notebook)? I can see my 6 year old being very upset with this (as he is a perfectionist).

That's the red one, right? I'm just amazed that it's still in a book you got from the library, lol.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "more clear." :-)

 

The children write the words in syllables when they are dictated for the first time, but not for spelling tests or in writing original sentences. The children understand why they are writing the words in syllables initially. They learn not to leave the spaces when they're writing the words for reals. :-)

[Ellie]

Alright, so those are the grade level spalding teachers guides, right? So that rules those out.....

 

Now I'm down to Saxon Phonics, LoE and SRW

You don't need the teacher guides for Spalding. All you need is the manual (WRTR); you can make your own phonogram cards, but the ones you buy are inexpensive and good quality. So you can do Spalding for all your children, as many times as you want, for the cost of one manual and the phonogram cards. It's pretty cost effective, not to mention really very simple.

[Ellie]

Just curious ladies. Doesn't the author of Grammarworks("the works people") have lesson plans specifically for use w/WRTR? I think it is supposed to be scripted.

Not lesson plans, exactly. Believe me when I tell you that you do NOT need "lesson plans" for Spalding.

 

Having said that we use and LOVE LOE, but all of these programs are teacher-intensive, some just more than others. Sigh...

It is true. They are all teacher intensive. But Spalding is pick-it-up-and-do-it; the others may be, but I'm not a SWR/LOE/AAS geek :D, so I don't know how much they are.

[BugsMama]

Ellie- Yes, it's the red one. It's in pretty good condition for a library book!

[BugsMama]

LOE breaks up their word list (which is a combo of ayers and "other" sources) by phonogram for instruction, while spalding goes in order of "frequency of use" (the ayers list), with multiple phonograms and rules per sitting, correct?

 

LOE is more hand holding, with more rules and phonograms, spalding (WRTR manual) is less expensive with less frills.

 

What other big differences am I missing?

[Ellie]

LOE breaks up their word list (which is a combo of ayers and "other" sources) by phonogram for instruction, while spalding goes in order of "frequency of use" (the ayers list), with multiple phonograms and rules per sitting, correct?

 

Um...I'm the Spalding geek, not the LOE geek, but yes, the Extended Ayres List is words in order (more or less, lol) of usage. Not sure what you mean by "multiple phonograms and rules per sitting;" you begin by teaching children the phonograms which begin with circles, then the phonograms that begin with lines (IOW, the letters of the alphabet), and then the multi-letter phonograms.

 

Understand that "rules" probably means something different than what you're thinking. We teach the children that the letter "a" has three sounds (a, A, ah); that is not a rule. When we begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List, we teach Rule 4, which says that a, e, i, o and u say their second sounds at the end of a short word or syllable. We teach the phonograms oi and oy, which say the same thing, but we don't use oi at the end of a word...Rule 6. IOW, a rule gives extra information about how a phonogram is used or pronounced.

 

LOE is more hand holding, with more rules and phonograms, spalding (WRTR manual) is less expensive with less frills.

Does LOE have more phonograms and rules? :001_huh: It is certainly more expensive than WRTR (remember that Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual). Not sure what you mean by "frills." :)

[BugsMama]

" The 74 basic phonograms identified in Uncovering the Logic of English originate from the 70 basic phonograms identified by Dr. Orton. I have expanded the original list by adding four phonograms: augh, bu, gu, and cei."

 

http://www.logicofenglish.com/resources/articles/item/211-why-74-phonograms

 

(the difference in phonograms)

[BugsMama]

Ellie- I appreciate your patience with me- I *think* you and I are on the same page.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how to say what I mean here!

 

I think WRTR has the child do their 30 words a day, but those words have nothing in common. The child already knows the phonograms, and are being reminded of spelling "rules" (like c says /s/ before e,i,y) along the way so they gain an understanding of the "why" behind the spelling of the word.

 

LOE on the other hand, also has the child know the phonograms first, but then introduces a list of words that all have the same pattern, either the same phonogram base, or following the same rule.

 

*if* I have that right, LOE introduces one concept at a time, and reenforces it, while WRTR is more "spiral-y".....

 

Do I have WRTR right?..... does anyone using LOE want to weigh in?

[Dinsfamily]

Ellie- I appreciate your patience with me- I *think* you and I are on the same page.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how to say what I mean here!

 

I think WRTR has the child do their 30 words a day, but those words have nothing in common. The child already knows the phonograms, and are being reminded of spelling "rules" (like c says /s/ before e,i,y) along the way so they gain an understanding of the "why" behind the spelling of the word.

 

LOE on the other hand, also has the child know the phonograms first, but then introduces a list of words that all have the same pattern, either the same phonogram base, or following the same rule.

 

*if* I have that right, LOE introduces one concept at a time, and reenforces it, while WRTR is more "spiral-y".....

 

Do I have WRTR right?..... does anyone using LOE want to weigh in?

 

You are correct on Spalding and SWR is the same. They do a spiral-type review of phonograms and rules. Spalding doesn't specify doing 30 words per week to my knowledge (It's been awhile since I read WRTR. They might suggest it somewhere in the manual, but the idea is that you can customize the number of words/week depending on the child. I do 10/week with my K'ers and 20/week with my 2nd grader.

 

You also might want to look at how many and how difficult the words get in each program. Spalding and SWR using the Extended Ayers list go up to a college freshman level. SWR adds in some extra words to round out the number to 2000 words. I got the impression that LOE covered a lot less words and didn't go up to college level. That might be something to consider. I don't know much about LOE, though. It all depends on what you're looking for.

[Hunter]

Ellie- I appreciate your patience with me- I *think* you and I are on the same page.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how to say what I mean here!

 

I think WRTR has the child do their 30 words a day, but those words have nothing in common. The child already knows the phonograms, and are being reminded of spelling "rules" (like c says /s/ before e,i,y) along the way so they gain an understanding of the "why" behind the spelling of the word.

 

LOE on the other hand, also has the child know the phonograms first, but then introduces a list of words that all have the same pattern, either the same phonogram base, or following the same rule.

 

*if* I have that right, LOE introduces one concept at a time, and reenforces it, while WRTR is more "spiral-y".....

 

Do I have WRTR right?..... does anyone using LOE want to weigh in?

 

THIS is the thing that is making me take another look at LOE for the first time. I don't know if it's enough to make me shell out 100.00 for the teacher's manual of an unfinished product, but it has caught my attention in a big way.

[BugsMama]

THIS is the thing that is making me take another look at LOE for the first time.

 

And that's what keeps me going back to it. It appears to be set up like AAS only move much faster. I keep thinking if the one set would replace a bunch of AAS levels, then the price isn't so bad.

[BugsMama]

for the teacher's manual of an unfinished product, but it has caught my attention in a big way.

 

Hunter- Can you explain what you mean by this? From what I can gather from their forum, it looks like essentials covers the 30 spading spelling rules, and her 74 phonograms, so while it only covers a small number of words explicitly, it gives the student the information and tools to continue with any words. She has grade level lists available on the site, so I think I would teach essentials (a crash course to all the phonograms and rules), and then continue reenforcing by teaching her grade level lists (or even the ayers list). Or we would switch away from phonics to a root study (she recommends going to English from the Roots up and MCT).

 

She does say that they are going to come out with a grade level program, but it would be a substitute for essentials (which is fast paced, including all phonograms/rules)- basically essentials broken down into grade level (which sounds more like AAS is set up).

 

I guess my question really is how *high* (grade level wise) does LOE cover now with the essentials curriculum? And why do I need a higher level once my child has a firm grasp of the rules and phonograms?

[atozmom]

Hunter- Can you explain what you mean by this? From what I can gather from their forum, it looks like essentials covers the 30 spading spelling rules, and her 74 phonograms, so while it only covers a small number of words explicitly, it gives the student the information and tools to continue with any words. She has grade level lists available on the site, so I think I would teach essentials (a crash course to all the phonograms and rules), and then continue reenforcing by teaching her grade level lists (or even the ayers list). Or we would switch away from phonics to a root study (she recommends going to English from the Roots up and MCT).

 

She does say that they are going to come out with a grade level program, but it would be a substitute for essentials (which is fast paced, including all phonograms/rules)- basically essentials broken down into grade level (which sounds more like AAS is set up).

 

I guess my question really is how *high* (grade level wise) does LOE cover now with the essentials curriculum? And why do I need a higher level once my child has a firm grasp of the rules and phonograms?

 

Of course I am not Hunter and I look forward to her reply as they always contain much insight. :)

 

You are correct in the part I bolded above. The idea is that they master the spelling rules enough to apply them to any word. Denise teaches them how to analyze and mark words, which should help them with other words that are not covered in the book.

 

She does plan on writing a second level to Essentials (not due out for another few years). It's main focus will be on Latin and Greek Roots, morphology (vocabulary development), and punctuation of more complex sentences. It will also include the advanced phonograms, as from what I can gather, they seem to go hand in hand with the roots she will be covering.

 

ETA: looking at the ages of your children, you could easily take your time moving through Essentials. I plan on taking 2 years to go through it with my ds. I know we will probably finish before she has the second book out, but I am just fine with that. I plan to take that time to continue practicing everything he has learned, applying it to words he uses everyday in writing, etc.

Edited June 4, 2012 by atozmom
correction

[Hunter]

Hunter- Can you explain what you mean by this? From what I can gather from their forum, it looks like essentials covers the 30 spading spelling rules, and her 74 phonograms, so while it only covers a small number of words explicitly, it gives the student the information and tools to continue with any words. She has grade level lists available on the site, so I think I would teach essentials (a crash course to all the phonograms and rules), and then continue reenforcing by teaching her grade level lists (or even the ayers list). Or we would switch away from phonics to a root study (she recommends going to English from the Roots up and MCT).

 

She does say that they are going to come out with a grade level program, but it would be a substitute for essentials (which is fast paced, including all phonograms/rules)- basically essentials broken down into grade level (which sounds more like AAS is set up).

 

I guess my question really is how *high* (grade level wise) does LOE cover now with the essentials curriculum? And why do I need a higher level once my child has a firm grasp of the rules and phonograms?

 

In my experience, when an author says, you can just apply what I've taught you, it's just not that easy. A LOT of time is spent learning the rules, and it appears to me that JUST as the student is getting to the mastery point, the program is dropped. If MOM is ready to APPLY and prepared to make up the lessons, then everything looks like it will work out, BUT the whole selling feature is that this is open and go, right? About 1/2 way through you will have LESS than Spalding.

 

I don't know. I'm just scared to get locked into this program. It's not the price that stopped me. Believe me. I would have resorted to tea and toast for this, long before I did it for something else, if it was finished. I've been told "it's so easy to apply" too many times, and it wasn't.

 

I don't have DITHOR, but have read enough reviews after it got field tested by the masses. I guess it wasn't so easy to apply the rules, and that was just literature.

 

I really hope I'm wrong. I am. I will smile a huge smile next year if all the LOE love continues and everyone is able to apply the rules. I predict otherwise though.

 

Now the truth is that many people will never finish the book anyway, before hopping to the new flavor, or abandoning spelling altogether. So for them, it will never matter. Many people get overwhelmed with middle school content and drop skills, without realizing what they are doing.

 

But for those who finish the manual and want to continue spelling, I don't predict happiness. Imagine the Spalding word list dropping the markings and spelling rule numbers 1/2 way through, saying, "You can just apply from here on".

 

I think the author should have finished this book, instead of taking a side trip over to graded curriculum. I think she is going to regret this move. I think LOE is going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths that will taint it's reputation for years to come.

 

Imagine a math program that got dropped and wasn't fully compatible with any other program. I believe spelling to be as important as math. And this curriculum is not a small investment of TIME.

 

And I personally just have no tolerance for advertising that isn't fully accurate. I don't like it when authors explain away the shortcomings with confusing statements. I'm told I have excellent bull--- radar, and my radar is pinging here.

 

All LOE needs to do is publish a few pages of a marked word list with spelling rule numbers. If it's so "easy", why do you think she hasn't spent a few minutes creating a cheapo pdf for people to download for a few dollars? Or maybe it is easy and she just wants to make sure no lists like that exist, so she can sell you all another $200.00 worth of stuff :-0 I don't know.

 

As I said, if you think there is a good chance you won't finish the book anyway, go for it! It's spelling for this year. Time intensive spelling, but...spelling.

 

As for me, I'm going to take a good look at the free resource posted this morning, and give that a test drive, with some word sorts and dictation, for now.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Hunter

[BugsMama]

:lol:

 

Hunter, you just broke my heart.

 

You have a fantastic point, I get it, I do.

 

I still want to love it.

 

Sigh- Can you tell I am one of those people who obsesses and research way too much before making a decision?? :glare:

[BugsMama]

ETA: looking at the ages of your children, you could easily take your time moving through Essentials. I plan on taking 2 years to go through it with my ds. I know we will probably finish before she has the second book out, but I am just fine with that. I plan to take that time to continue practicing everything he has learned, applying it to words he uses everyday in writing, etc.

 

This is what I was planning on doing, taking two years, and then possibly repeating it again. I wish I had it in my hands so I can see if it works like that.

 

For now, I think I am ordering the game book and cards.... And I'll go from there.

[lorisuewho]

I think Essentials was easier for me to buy than it may be for other people, because I also know I'm not going to be breezing through it quickly and then looking to move on. MY children are all little. It is going to take us more than a year to get through it and then I'll probably be repeating it a few more times as I include more and more children into the mix and delve into things deeper with the oldest. Probably the next part of Essentials will be done by the time I need it and if it is not I'm mentally ready to move into How To Teach Spelling or even R&S, knowing we have a solid foundation that we build with LOE Essentials.

 

I completely agree with Hunter. If I had different age children I probably would be more cautious to buy something that some see as incomplete.

[Ellie]

:)

" The 74 basic phonograms identified in Uncovering the Logic of English originate from the 70 basic phonograms identified by Dr. Orton. I have expanded the original list by adding four phonograms: augh, bu, gu, and cei."

 

http://www.logicofenglish.com/resources/articles/item/211-why-74-phonograms

 

(the difference in phonograms)

 

OIC. Thanks.

 

I think those "phonograms" are unnecessary, but then, apparently Mrs. Spalding and Dr. Orton didn't think they were necessary, either, so there you go. :D

[abrightmom]

Nothing profound to add BUT I just picked up Essentials and upon my initial inspection THIS is what I've been waiting for. AAS, while awesome, moved too slowly for us. WRTR is way too confusing (I am sorry but I read that stupid manual 3 or more times and it was STILL unclear exactly what I should be doing with what kid on what day and yadda yadda yadda.). Phonics Road was too integrated and tightly structured. HTTS looks good (own it) but I think it's something I could use later if I felt the need.

 

LOE will provide the foundation I am looking for in teaching my children phonograms, rules, and how to apply them. I don't use it to teach reading but to strengthen reading and spelling. Those are my goals. I am quite content using Phonics Pathways to teach reading. I am so impressed with the quality of materials as well. I balked at spending the bucks on workbooks for the boys but in the end I am very glad to have done so. It will keep everything easy to use for me. When we are done with it (I plan to move through it with my boys as quickly as possible but don't know yet how that will play out) we'll likely go back to our beloved Rod & Staff Spelling and studied dictation (both methods I adore).

 

:001_smile::001_smile: There will be some risk and you will have to try something. I have bought and sold Phonics Road too many times, AAS (3 levels), WRTR, HTTS, and a few other things here and there. LOE seems to be what I have been looking for; a streamlined way to teach phonograms, rules, word analysis in ONE book and a clear presentation for me to follow.

[Hunter]

:)

OIC. Thanks.

 

I think those "phonograms" are unnecessary, but then, apparently Mrs. Spalding and Dr. Orton didn't think they were necessary, either, so there you go. :D

 

I don't obsess over how the phonograms and rules are broken up. My problem with the "new and improved" is that it makes the program incompatible with the others, and then isn't finished. If it was less "improved" I could just finish with Spalding. UGH for the "improved"!

[BugsMama]

I think Essentials was easier for me to buy than it may be for other people, because I also know I'm not going to be breezing through it quickly and then looking to move on. QUOTE]

 

I'm glad you feel this way and *own* it- because this is exactly what I am hoping to do with it.

[Hunter]

Nothing profound to add BUT I just picked up Essentials and upon my initial inspection THIS is what I've been waiting for. AAS, while awesome, moved too slowly for us. WRTR is way too confusing (I am sorry but I read that stupid manual 3 or more times and it was STILL unclear exactly what I should be doing with what kid on what day and yadda yadda yadda.). Phonics Road was too integrated and tightly structured. HTTS looks good (own it) but I think it's something I could use later if I felt the need.

 

LOE will provide the foundation I am looking for in teaching my children phonograms, rules, and how to apply them. I don't use it to teach reading but to strengthen reading and spelling. Those are my goals. I am quite content using Phonics Pathways to teach reading. I am so impressed with the quality of materials as well. I balked at spending the bucks on workbooks for the boys but in the end I am very glad to have done so. It will keep everything easy to use for me. When we are done with it (I plan to move through it with my boys as quickly as possible but don't know yet how that will play out) we'll likely go back to our beloved Rod & Staff Spelling and studied dictation (both methods I adore).

 

:001_smile::001_smile: There will be some risk and you will have to try something. I have bought and sold Phonics Road too many times, AAS (3 levels), WRTR, HTTS, and a few other things here and there. LOE seems to be what I have been looking for; a streamlined way to teach phonograms, rules, word analysis in ONE book and a clear presentation for me to follow.

 

It's spelling for this year, and maybe next. Who knows what 2 years from now will bring. I can understand people using it. I get it. I so get it.

 

I'm just scared though. I've always been a long term planner, sometimes to my detriment. I've suffered because I forsake the good offered to me today, to try and secure a tomorrow that never comes.

 

But I can't do this one. I think the deciding factor is, I feel like I'm being swindled. Not on the price of the book, but on the reality of where I'll be when the book is finished. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[lorisuewho]

Nothing profound to add BUT I just picked up Essentials and upon my initial inspection THIS is what I've been waiting for. AAS, while awesome, moved too slowly for us. WRTR is way too confusing (I am sorry but I read that stupid manual 3 or more times and it was STILL unclear exactly what I should be doing with what kid on what day and yadda yadda yadda.). Phonics Road was too integrated and tightly structured. HTTS looks good (own it) but I think it's something I could use later if I felt the need.

 

LOE will provide the foundation I am looking for in teaching my children phonograms, rules, and how to apply them. I don't use it to teach reading but to strengthen reading and spelling. Those are my goals. I am quite content using Phonics Pathways to teach reading. I am so impressed with the quality of materials as well. I balked at spending the bucks on workbooks for the boys but in the end I am very glad to have done so. It will keep everything easy to use for me. When we are done with it (I plan to move through it with my boys as quickly as possible but don't know yet how that will play out) we'll likely go back to our beloved Rod & Staff Spelling and studied dictation (both methods I adore).

 

:001_smile::001_smile: There will be some risk and you will have to try something. I have bought and sold Phonics Road too many times, AAS (3 levels), WRTR, HTTS, and a few other things here and there. LOE seems to be what I have been looking for; a streamlined way to teach phonograms, rules, word analysis in ONE book and a clear presentation for me to follow.

 

:iagree:AAS is awesome. I will still recommend it to people, but it was too slow here. HTTS I, too, feel I could use later and probably with more effectiveness after having used LOE.

:iagree:I also use Phonics Pathways for teaching HOW to read, but am looking to go further with spelling and reading with LOE

:iagree:I love Rod and Staff and will be tempted to use that or HTTS next.

:iagree:LOE seems to be what I have been looking for also.

 

(I just nodded my head so much in agreement when I read your post that I thought I should mention it! :001_smile:)

[Ellie]

Ellie- I appreciate your patience with me- I *think* you and I are on the same page.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how to say what I mean here!

 

I think WRTR has the child do their 30 words a day, but those words have nothing in common. The child already knows the phonograms, and are being reminded of spelling "rules" (like c says /s/ before e,i,y) along the way so they gain an understanding of the "why" behind the spelling of the word.

 

LOE on the other hand, also has the child know the phonograms first, but then introduces a list of words that all have the same pattern, either the same phonogram base, or following the same rule.

 

*if* I have that right, LOE introduces one concept at a time, and reenforces it, while WRTR is more "spiral-y".....

 

Do I have WRTR right?..... does anyone using LOE want to weigh in?

Remember that Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual. :-)

 

Spalding teaches the most-often ocurring words, because those are the words the children will meet most often and early (sometimes in the spelling list, you teach words which are similar in pattern, or you add prefixes or subfixes, but the words are still those which are most-often ocurring). Teaching this way gives them the broadest base for reading; they don't have to wait until they are taught another concept. That's what happens in most other phonics methods: teach short vowels first, then long vowels, and so on. Children taught that way are stuck with vocabulary-controlled basal readers...which are fun to read sometimes, but children who are taught with the Spalding Method can jump right into good children's literature.

 

I'm not sure there is an emphasis on children's knowing the "why" of spelling. Sometimes there isn't a why. :-) The emphasis is more on what is.

 

Spalding is not the least bit spiral-y. :-)

 

So much of this is discussed in the manual. It is why I recommend sitting down and reading it as if it were a good novel (albeit without much of a plot :lol: ), not trying to figure out how to do it, but just reading what it says. I still get chilly bumps. Spalding geek. :D