MCT vs. Vocab from Classical Roots

[the floating cottage]

Hi There!

Has anyone used/compared MCT's Vocab with Classical Roots? I have an upcoming 5th grader and trying to plan our logic stage. We are currently using the MCT language Arts and love it. However, we use it along with WWE and FLL. They just blend so nicely.

 

What I am not sure about is...

1. Are the middle grades of MCT's vocab enough?

2. Could I combine both the MCT vocab and Classical Roots for a thourough program like we do with the others? Or would that be over kill?

3. Just use Classical?

 

Decisions, decisions.\!

[the floating cottage]

Caesar's is what should would be using. The whole MCT curriculum is just so enjoyable. Do you know if you continue with their Vocab series through to the end if it is as good as Classical? My oldest dd is in college and comes across this daily so I really want this dd to prepared.

[Crimson Wife]

I haven't seen the new version of CE, but we loved, loved, :001_wub: the series. I'm sorry that my DD has finished the CE books and that Word Within the Word doesn't appear remotely as good. I have decided to skip WWtW and DD just started the Sadlier-Oxford Vocabulary Workshop series.

 

VW is not as engaging as CE but DH did the books at the Catholic schools he attended and he swears by them in terms of helping prep for the SAT. He rarely has a preference for specific curricula, but VW is one that he strongly preferred we use. He liked what I showed him of CE 1&2, but I did agree to use VW afterwards.

 

I previewed VfCR at the homeschool bookstore awhile back and frankly, it struck me as having too much "busywork".

[the floating cottage]

I agree Wendy. I suppose if it is too much then I could always drop something.

Thank you Crimson for your review. Very helpful.

[swimmermom3]

For what it is worth, we have used MCT, Classical Roots, and Sadlier. Classical Roots is fine but dry, especially if you compare it to Caesar's English. My children have also used Sadlier at a Catholic school and then for two years at home. It is easy to use and I would agree with Crimson Wife's assessment with regards to testing. In fifth grade my dd scored in the twelfth grade range in vocabulary on the Stanford test. It certainly does the job.

 

I have written several times on the board about our struggles to use MCT at the Word Within the Word level. I was disappointed with WWW I after doing CE II for 6th grade. We did okay up until Lesson 12 and then were overwhelmed. Even when we spread out a lesson over two weeks, it still wasn't working. I sold my books and had my son work in Sadlier Oxford for the rest of the year.

 

It turns out that I sold the books prematurely. This year my son decided to start reading but skipped all the Newberry books my older kids read. He went straight for the likes of Dante's Inferno and Orwell's 1984. MCT vocabulary words were everywhere in the books he has chosen to read, easily 5 - 15 words in most chapters. Remember, Mr. Thompson chose his words from the classics. I have become a die-hard MCT fan all over again. Yes, I definitely tweak how we study the words and it takes a bit more effort on my part. I could foresee the three Word Within the Word books carrying all but the most extremely advanced student through high school.

 

There is no reason to do two of these programs together. It is overkill and robs precious time from more important areas of study, imo.:tongue_smilie:

Edited April 25, 2012 by swimmermom3

[Brenda in FL]

So, for those parents that have used these programs: Would you go back and use CE I and II with a highschooler before beginning WWtW or Sadlier's VW?

 

We had started the VfCR series when ds was in 6th grade but never got past book A.

 

I have a 9 yo, 11yo, and 13yo. Could I possibly have them all study vocabulary together? (Mom included!)

[MorningGlory]

My son used the VfromCR workbooks for a couple of years (6th and 7th), and I honestly think he retained NOTHING from all that dry busywork.

 

He started MCT's WWW I last August. It has been a challenge!! But using quizlet daily and having me call out stems and writing them, etc., he has managed to really learn 500 or so of the most common stems. He REALLY knows them! And once he got past week 20, MCT started putting those stems to work in frequently occurring academic & literature words. The program has gotten much easier since then. I am THRILLED with what my son has learned from Word Within a Word. (He is on week 28 now).

 

I will warn you...and reiterate what SwimmerMom said...it is NOT easy. But the payoff is huge! He can analyze and figure out a close meaning of almost any word he comes across now. He will go right into WWW II in just a few weeks.

[Crimson Wife]

So, for those parents that have used these programs: Would you go back and use CE I and II with a highschooler before beginning WWtW or Sadlier's VW?

 

I cannot speak for WWtW, but the Sadlier VW books are all individually self-contained. The difficulty of the words increases as the student moves from book A (labeled as 6th grade) through H (honors 12th).

 

I started DD in Level B because it looked at a similar difficulty level to CE from what I could tell from the samples. In fact, I recognize a number of the words from the CE series in the master list at the back of the book (e.g. pervade and orthodox).

[Chrysalis Academy]

I always get so excited when DS notices words he has learned from MCT in the books we are reading. Sometimes the words are pretty obscure, but then there they are. It makes reading older/classic books so much more enjoyable!

 

 

I love this too!! My 5 yo picked out "countenance" and "manifest" from Chronicles of Narnia last night! We've been doing a family word of the week, and it amazes me how much the little sponge remembers! She's kind of freaking out her kindy teacher, though! :D

[amyco]

I've used Vocab from Classical Roots in the past...we ditched it because it was boring and the children were not retaining much. My ds now uses Caesar's English I, and we both really like it. It's the only book we sit on the sofa for...we read/discuss it together. He often comes up and gives me his own sentences with the vocab words. I am amazed at how much he is retaining...we only do it twice per week, sometimes only once! I don't use any other MCT products and really don't plan to. We'll probably go on to CE II next year. I wouldn't use both CE and VfCR--Caesar's English is plenty imo.

[curriculumhoarder]

My 13yo likes VfCR, she does about 2 books a year (she's in book B) and rarely makes mistakes. Should I be looking at something else for her? I looked at MCT when we started hsing, but I could never get a good feel on how it worked, so we never did it.

 

My 12yo did fine and enjoyed VfCR until Book A (she did all the numbered ones).

 

They both hated the writing part of Wordly Wise, the part with the short story, and my 12yo is bored (sometimes frustrated) by Vocabulit.

 

Neither would like anything that is parent intensive as they like to be able to get things done by themselves. Unless it's really fun, that is.

[Lori in MS]

So, for those parents that have used these programs: Would you go back and use CE I and II with a highschooler before beginning WWtW or Sadlier's VW?

 

We had started the VfCR series when ds was in 6th grade but never got past book A.

 

I have a 9 yo, 11yo, and 13yo. Could I possibly have them all study vocabulary together? (Mom included!)

 

I would like to know this too. My dc are behind in vocabulary. I was thinking of doing CE with all of them.

[Virginia Heather]

So, for those parents that have used these programs: Would you go back and use CE I and II with a highschooler before beginning WWtW or Sadlier's VW?

 

We had started the VfCR series when ds was in 6th grade but never got past book A.

 

I have a 9 yo, 11yo, and 13yo. Could I possibly have them all study vocabulary together? (Mom included!)

 

I'd love to know, too! My boys will be in 6th & 8th grade next year-- is CE 1 too young for them, or is it a perfectly fine place to start (especially if vocab study has been negligible)?

 

Oh, the decisions!!

[swimmermom3]

I'd love to know, too! My boys will be in 6th & 8th grade next year-- is CE 1 too young for them, or is it a perfectly fine place to start (especially if vocab study has been negligible)?

 

Oh, the decisions!!

 

CE I is not too young for your boys, especially with negligible vocabulary study.

 

You don't have to start with WWW if you have a high schooler; Caesar's English is would be fine for late middle school and early high school. Remember that the program was originally for "gifted" children. All of the books build on each other, so there is continuous review as well as the briskly-paced addition of new words.

 

Recent words for my 8th grader from WWWII include: tenebrous, execrate, impecunious, pharisaism, feculent, and remunerate.

[MorningGlory]

I have a 9 yo, 11yo, and 13yo. Could I possibly have them all study vocabulary together? (Mom included!)... I'd love to know, too! My boys will be in 6th & 8th grade next year-- is CE 1 too young for them, or is it a perfectly fine place to start (especially if vocab study has been negligible)?

I started WWW with a sharp 8th grader who had not previously worked through CE. I would not recommend using WWW below that age (although I know MCT says otherwise). It takes a good deal of maturity and "stick-to-it-ness" to be successful with WWW.

 

It sounds like CE would be a great place to start for both of you.

[the floating cottage]

Wow! I am so thankful for ya'lls great wisdom. I think it is safe to say VfCR is out. I will stick with CE 1&2 through the middle years. I have naively never heard of Sadlier before Crimson mentioned it. So off to research it. So much to think about for high school.

Thank you!

[Virginia Heather]

CE I is not too young for your boys, especially with negligible vocabulary study.

 

You don't have to start with WWW if you have a high schooler; Caesar's English is would be fine for late middle school and early high school. Remember that the program was originally for "gifted" children. All of the books build on each other, so there is continuous review as well as the briskly-paced addition of new words.

 

Recent words for my 8th grader from WWWII include: tenebrous, execrate, impecunious, pharisaism, feculent, and remunerate.

 

Fantastic! Thank you for your feedback, and thank you, Jetta, for yours as well. I think we'll get started right away!

[amyco]

Nah, if Vocab from Classical Roots is working, and she enjoys it, don't change! I think it is less teacher intensive than CE. That's the beauty of homeschooling...so many options...what works for one might not work for another. Please don't start second guessing your choices that are working just because you read a glowing review here! (Trust me. I've done that. It's not good.) :)

[curriculumhoarder]

Nah, if Vocab from Classical Roots is working, and she enjoys it, don't change! I think it is less teacher intensive than CE. That's the beauty of homeschooling...so many options...what works for one might not work for another. Please don't start second guessing your choices that are working just because you read a glowing review here! (Trust me. I've done that. It's not good.) :)

 

Thanks! Of course, at the rate she is going, she'll be done with Vocab from Classical Roots halfway through 9th grade and then I need to decide whether it's best to do a vocab or just do SAT and ACT practice tests. I'm leaning towards practice tests/books so that she gets to do all of the parts, not just vocab.

 

How teacher intensive is CE? I'm still floundering with 12yo dd. She's not that dedicated nor interested in vocab, so something interesting is paramount.

 

And, yes, I know about switching because something works super-wonderfully for other folks (IEW, MUS, etc). Still, there's always that nagging voice of "Yes, it works, but is it the best for us?" Sigh. Even though they didn't work for us, I still think about retrying IEW and MUS because maybe, just maybe, they would work now. Bah, why can't my dc be some of the kids that something works so well that you'd never think about changing?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thanks! Of course, at the rate she is going, she'll be done with Vocab from Classical Roots halfway through 9th grade and then I need to decide whether it's best to do a vocab or just do SAT and ACT practice tests. I'm leaning towards practice tests/books so that she gets to do all of the parts, not just vocab.

 

How teacher intensive is CE? I'm still floundering with 12yo dd. She's not that dedicated nor interested in vocab, so something interesting is paramount.

 

 

 

CE is totally teacher-intensive. It's meant to be read and discussed together. No prep time, but definitely you are with her when she works it, it's not a hand over and go type program.

 

It does include lots of work with analogies, antonyms, and other things that show up on SATs and ACTs, though . . .

[Lori in MS]

Is it possible to only buy the IM and 1 student book of CE 1 (new edition) to use with 3 students? Or do they each need their own book?

 

Money is tight right now.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Lori in MS

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, you only need 1 student book and the IM.

[highfamily]

Especially swimmermom3 or MorningGlory, can you share any tweaks that have smoothed the road a bit? We're in CE2 now but plan to continue on with MCT vocab. This program has enabled my 11yo to USE the vocab WELL in his writing and speaking...love it!

 

 

Thanks,

Jana

[Guest hlarson]

I came on the internet looking for answers to the vocab question and specificially about the MCT vs. VfCR. I guess I shouldn't be amazed I'm not the only one wondering.. I've never tried the MCT but have been researching and it looks great. I didn't care for the VfCR. Is the CE perfectly fine to use, then, without the grammar? It is so expensive and money is really tight right now. Thanks.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, you can use CE and get a lot out of it even if you don't use the full MCT program. It is an excellent vocabulary program; lessons alternate between Latin stems (and words built from them) and the most common challenging vocabulary words found in great literature.