Sonlight questions

[squirtymomma]

I've been putting together my own curricula/plans for the last two years for my oldest dd. Trying to add my second into the mix is just making my brain hurt, and with a destructive toddler, I'm realizing I'm going to need to be more efficient. So, I think I'm going to use Sonlight Core B next year and combine my 2nd grader and K'er (except for Math and LA, obviously).

 

So, I have a couple of questions. One, who has used the CD-ROM's that come with the cores? What is on them, and do you find them helpful?

 

Two, if this year goes well, I could see us continuing with SL for a number of years. When/how do kids transition to reading more of the books on their own? I know this year I'll be reading all of the Bible, history/geography, and science books plus the RA's. But, I assume at some point kids will begin doing the reading on their own (except the books scheduled as RA's)? How would that work if two are sharing a core?

[squirtymomma]

Pretty please?

[SebastianCat]

We've used SL Cores P4/5 through C, and that was before the CD tips came out. So I can't really help you with that question.

 

First of all, my biggest piece of advice would be to go slower than scheduled through Cores B and C. Try to arrive at Core D when your younger child is at least 8. There's a HUGE jump between C and D in the length, dryness, depth, and maturity of the readings.

 

I did Core B with my kids when they were in 2nd grade and K, and was very pleasantly surprised that my then K'er did great with the entire Core. She continued to do well through Core C. But when I started looking at Core D, we stopped and took a year off from SL because it was THAT much harder. (We studied state history and it's been a fabulous year!)

 

SL is really designed for YOU to read everything to your children except for the Readers. Your children will probably need 2 separate Reader packages until you hit Core D, which is why there are multiple levels available. If you are going to use SL's LA, make sure you look at ALL of the LA samples, not just the Reading level, to make your choice. Oftentimes a young child reads at a higher level than their writing, vocabulary, and spelling levels, and if you pick LA based only on Reading, you'll end up too high. So a good place to start would be LA2 & 2nd Grade Readers for your 2nd grader, and LAK with K Readers for your K'er.

 

The Readers at this level are designed to build fluency and comprehension. There are multiple levels available, but by the time you arrive at Core D, both children will need to read the Core D Regular Readers because they contain history not found elsewhere in the Core. The focus switches from "learn to read" to "read to learn." When my kids were truly "learning to read" I had them read their Readers out loud to me. But once they read fluently on their own I let them read the Readers on their own.

 

Since your kids will obviously be on different reading levels, you'll likely use 2 different Reader packages until you get to Core D. For Core D, there are Regular and Advanced Reader packages, and the Advanced contains all of the Regular Readers plus extras. So for us, my older child will follow the Advanced schedule, and my younger child will follow the Regular schedule.

 

As children get older, I do know families who transition some of the history and Read Alouds into more independent reading. I may do some of this with my 10 year old this coming year. But in doing so, I will pick & choose what I give him to read independently, because as you progress up the Cores, the maturity of subject matter gets higher and higher - so I will give him books for independent reading based on whether he will understand the themes, content, vocabulary, etc., on his own. I will have pre-read the entire core by the time we start, so I know what will be OK.

 

For example, one book I won't give him to read on his own is Carry On, Mr. Bowditch. It's a wonderful book but has some really complex vocabulary about navigation and sailing that he'd probably just skip over without really understanding if he read it on his own. But as a read aloud, we can discuss it, learn the vocabulary, and he'll have a much better understanding.

 

Similar Read Alouds I remember from Cores B and C that I wouldn't give my kids to read independently would be Mountain Born, Understood Betsy, Red Sails to Capri, The Door in the Wall, and Strawberry Girl.

 

Hope this helps!

[squirtymomma]

Thanks for your help! So, I confess I had planned to use Grade 4/5 Readers/LA because my 2nd-grader-to-be reads at a 6th-7th grade level. The Grade 2 Readers would be a joke for her, but I might be convinced to do the Grade 3 Readers/LA instead. I think the Grade 3 LA might be a better fit. And, that way I'd have the Grade 4/5 Readers/LA for when we do Core C. I'm sure she'd enjoy the grade 3 books, and her comprehension of those would probably be better than more difficult books. But, I also want to continue to challenge her reading level. Any suggestions on how to do that?

[andreainia]

We are just finishing up Core B with my 7 year old son. He used the Grade 3 readers, but we didn't use the LA. It's about 1 chapter a day to read, which was not much for him, as he's a strong reader. To challenge his reading level, I've just added in other chapter books from our library. I have an assigned reading time when he does his Sonlight readers and a 30 minute free read time during which he reads the library books. I've found this to be a good balance. I agree that it would be a good idea to save the 4/5 Readers for Core C - otherwise you will run out of reader options unless you just do your own thing.

As to the Core Tips CD, it is pretty much a list of links for additional information or a few hands on projects. We've used all the links for the Akebu to Zapotec book, and a few of the others as we went along. I also bought the Handle on the Arts program for Core B, though I confess I didn't use very much of it. I found out we didn't need as much hands-on as I thought we might. I bought the History Pockets Ancient Civilizations too, but it was pretty much just busy work. There were things in both HOTA and History Pockets that we used and liked, but we didn't use a high enough percentage of the materials to justify the cost. Oh, and I did buy an ancient Roman coin kit from Hearts and Hands - that's pretty neat.

We have really loved Core B - there's not been a book my son hasn't liked in either the readers or the read alouds, and he's liked the history selections, too. Hope you enjoy it as much as we have!

[kolamum]

I have no experience with the CD, when I asked about it I didn't feel the information was enough to "sell" me on it. ;) I felt History Pockets were a better choice, & at the older levels HSITW TT cds for activities & notebooking pages, etc.

 

You *might* find lapbooks & notebooks over at Homeschool Share for some of the books.. I'm not sure.

[boscopup]

Thanks for your help! So, I confess I had planned to use Grade 4/5 Readers/LA because my 2nd-grader-to-be reads at a 6th-7th grade level. The Grade 2 Readers would be a joke for her, but I might be convinced to do the Grade 3 Readers/LA instead. I think the Grade 3 LA might be a better fit. And, that way I'd have the Grade 4/5 Readers/LA for when we do Core C. I'm sure she'd enjoy the grade 3 books, and her comprehension of those would probably be better than more difficult books. But, I also want to continue to challenge her reading level. Any suggestions on how to do that?

 

At that point, I stopped worrying about challenging my son's reading level. I don't even know what level he is anymore. I know he read Detectives in Togas (grade level 7.3) last summer. The lower core read-alouds are nice for challenging level. But really, my son has switched from learning to read to reading to learn last year, so I don't feel like I need to challenge the reading level anymore. He can read. I have him read to learn now.

 

He's doing Core D with Advanced Readers right now (we're about 4 weeks in), and he's enjoying it. I agree with the PP that you'll probably want your youngest to be around 8 when you start Core D. My son will be 8 soon enough. ;) My goal is to do D and E over 3 years, though we'll see if that actually happens. It's hard to slow him down! :D

[curriculumhoarder]

I would say to pick SL LA based much more on writing rather than reading level. To tell the truth, most of the dc in SL seem to be early and strong readers, as mine were also. LA 3 teaches how to write paragraphs and LA 4-5 assumes that knowledge. My 2nd grader could have read all the books in Core B, including the read-alouds, but she struggled with LA 3 because her writing was not quite up to that level. It was spot on for my 3rd grader who also could read every book in the Core.

 

My dc LOVE for me to read aloud, so I still do all of the history, read-alouds and our science (Noeo) even though they are now 12 and 13yo. Since they strongly dislike audio books, I assume (hope?) that they like the interaction with me.

[Lady Marmalade]

I've been putting together my own curricula/plans for the last two years for my oldest dd. Trying to add my second into the mix is just making my brain hurt, and with a destructive toddler, I'm realizing I'm going to need to be more efficient. So, I think I'm going to use Sonlight Core B next year and combine my 2nd grader and K'er (except for Math and LA, obviously).

 

So, I have a couple of questions. One, who has used the CD-ROM's that come with the cores? What is on them, and do you find them helpful?

 

Two, if this year goes well, I could see us continuing with SL for a number of years. When/how do kids transition to reading more of the books on their own? I know this year I'll be reading all of the Bible, history/geography, and science books plus the RA's. But, I assume at some point kids will begin doing the reading on their own (except the books scheduled as RA's)? How would that work if two are sharing a core?

 

The way SL is designed, you read aloud everything except the readers until Core 100, and then it's all handed over to the student. There really isn't a transition period.

 

I've done cores D-F with my DD, and this year for Core F was the first time I handed a few of the shorter history books to my DD to read to herself. That was strictly a time management decision for me, as I have two cores going at once. But, I plan on doing the same over the next few years as prep for the HS cores.

 

For your core B-ers, I just want to echo what others have said about utlizing the library big time for readers. I don't even use SL's reader packages for my DS who is finishing up Core B. I never have, because the ideal reader package at the time was still never enough for my DS, and I also felt there were too many he wouldn't care for. So I use the reader booklists up through readers 4/5 and make my own reading list for DS utilizing TONS of library books that are going to challenge his reading more.

 

It's working well for him, though there is a part of me that would love to be able to use the grade 4/5 readers next year for him, as that would make planning easier on my part. But I don't think he'll enjoy many of them, and since the readers don't tie into the history until Core D, I don't consider them essential.

[Tarreymere]

How strange, I just thought that the kids were supposed to read the books except for the ones that are marked to be read aloud. Isn't that why they are supposed to develop a love of reading? What about all of those cute snapshots in the catalog of kids reading?

 

I'm doing core D with my eight year old (got it used to try out) and she has no problem reading the books herself. She does have an eighth grade reading comprehension level, so maybe that is why it works for us. But I still don't understand the idea of not having the kids read the books.

 

I thought I would like the comprehension questions that Sonlight has in the IG (thought I could save some time by not reading the books myself) but over time I have to say that I think that those questions are pretty superficial. Like someone glanced through the chapter and made up one or two questions without reading the chapter. Heck, I can do that! But it is much better to actually read the chapter to come up with some real comprehension questions that actually challenge the child rather than some dull comprehension questions that seem to be designed to merely check if the child actually read (or paid attention to someone else reading, apparently) the chapter.

 

One poster noted she read aloud to her children because the books contained vocabulary that they would not understand and would skip over and that she read aloud so that she could explain the words. Well, why can't Sonlight have a vocabulary list with each book or each chapter of each book? I find I DO have to read the books myself to find the vocabulary words for my daughter AND to find better comprehension questions. There are curricula out there that actually list the vocabulary FIRST and have the kids look up the words before they read (or are read) the chapter. So, that is now what I have to do, because Sonlight doesn't do that and because my kid actually reads the darn book.

 

The schedule also doesn't work for us, since my daughter reads faster than she is apparently supposed to. I'm of the opinion that you don't interrupt a reading eight year old, so we have had to make a number of trips to the library to supplement with other fiction novels set in the general time period we are studying. Now that I've seen the light that the kids aren't actually supposed to read the books I understand why the schedule only requires a chapter a day. Unfortunately, it won't work in my house. There is a peculiar mental state that one enters into as one reads that is more conducive to feeling as though one is actually there, that I want my children to experience, and that mental state doesn't happen when I jerk the book out of my child's hands after one chapter.

 

Overall, I guess I like some of the Sonlight book selections. I think the IG with the comprehension questions and schedule mostly worthless. I have had to do my own schedule and make up my own more challenging comprehension questions, which is even more pathetic since I'm using a core that is considered ahead of grade level for my eight year old daughter. We talk about more than 'what month is the corn planted' and examine character, setting, motivation, and especially interesting or poignant sentences. We talk about vocabulary and why the writer chose a particular word in a particular sentence. Sonlight doesn't even begin to cut it in my house.

 

I haven't tried their readers (seems like a waste of time after my experience with their core) or their LA (I tend to prefer more rigorous curriculum). So, I won't be ordering from Sonlight. I think of it more as a 'lit-light' than a true literature-based curriculum.

 

I recommend checking out a number of suggested reading lists and coming up with your own program. I'm currently working on adding my five year old and his reading into our daily schedule. Our days don't end at lunchtime, as seems to be highly desired by many here on the board, but we do enjoy taking the time to really read and enjoy our books.

[Mommy22alyns]

:iagree: with a lot of what Rainefox said. But I always just assumed that the pics of kids were of them just grabbing the books outside of school time to read on their own. I could be wrong.

 

I am frustrated with the questions for the readers.

[squirtymomma]

We are just finishing up Core B with my 7 year old son. He used the Grade 3 readers, but we didn't use the LA. It's about 1 chapter a day to read, which was not much for him, as he's a strong reader. To challenge his reading level, I've just added in other chapter books from our library. I have an assigned reading time when he does his Sonlight readers and a 30 minute free read time during which he reads the library books. I've found this to be a good balance. I agree that it would be a good idea to save the 4/5 Readers for Core C - otherwise you will run out of reader options unless you just do your own thing.

As to the Core Tips CD, it is pretty much a list of links for additional information or a few hands on projects. We've used all the links for the Akebu to Zapotec book, and a few of the others as we went along. I also bought the Handle on the Arts program for Core B, though I confess I didn't use very much of it. I found out we didn't need as much hands-on as I thought we might. I bought the History Pockets Ancient Civilizations too, but it was pretty much just busy work. There were things in both HOTA and History Pockets that we used and liked, but we didn't use a high enough percentage of the materials to justify the cost. Oh, and I did buy an ancient Roman coin kit from Hearts and Hands - that's pretty neat.

We have really loved Core B - there's not been a book my son hasn't liked in either the readers or the read alouds, and he's liked the history selections, too. Hope you enjoy it as much as we have!

 

Thank you for your input... it's helpful! I was considering the Handle on the Arts supplement as well, mostly as a way to engage my k'er. I already have the SOTW 1 AG, so that may be all I need. It's just nice that the HotA guide already has a weekly activity picked for you!

[squirtymomma]

At that point, I stopped worrying about challenging my son's reading level. I don't even know what level he is anymore. I know he read Detectives in Togas (grade level 7.3) last summer. The lower core read-alouds are nice for challenging level. But really, my son has switched from learning to read to reading to learn last year, so I don't feel like I need to challenge the reading level anymore. He can read. I have him read to learn now.

 

He's doing Core D with Advanced Readers right now (we're about 4 weeks in), and he's enjoying it. I agree with the PP that you'll probably want your youngest to be around 8 when you start Core D. My son will be 8 soon enough. ;) My goal is to do D and E over 3 years, though we'll see if that actually happens. It's hard to slow him down! :D

 

Thank your for sharing your experience. I think our kids are the exact same age spread, so it's helpful to hear how it's going for you. It's hard to know how much to be intentional with challenging my oldest, and how much I can just trust that she'll do it herself with her natural curiosity and drive.

 

We'll see about Core D when we get there. We've done Adv in America for 1st grade this year, and my 6 year old has done almost all of the reading herself (including those books scheduled as read-alouds). As a result, she's read about half of the Core D readers already. I do think that after a couple of years she won't necessarily remember a lot and she'll get more out of them. But if my second follows suit, I think she'd be able to handle a modified Core D by 2nd grade. Again, we won't know until we get there!

[squirtymomma]

I would say to pick SL LA based much more on writing rather than reading level. To tell the truth, most of the dc in SL seem to be early and strong readers, as mine were also. LA 3 teaches how to write paragraphs and LA 4-5 assumes that knowledge. My 2nd grader could have read all the books in Core B, including the read-alouds, but she struggled with LA 3 because her writing was not quite up to that level. It was spot on for my 3rd grader who also could read every book in the Core.

 

My dc LOVE for me to read aloud, so I still do all of the history, read-alouds and our science (Noeo) even though they are now 12 and 13yo. Since they strongly dislike audio books, I assume (hope?) that they like the interaction with me.

 

This is all helpful, thanks. My oldest is advanced both in writing and in reading, so it's hard to know what would be best for her. She will write long newspaper articles that she makes up herself with correct grammar, punctuation, etc (most of which she's absorbed and not been explicitly taught). The instruction on paragraph writing in Grade 3 LA would probably be good for her. I could also use the copywork selections as dictations instead. I'll also keep moving her towards writing her own narrations ala WWE.

[squirtymomma]

The way SL is designed, you read aloud everything except the readers until Core 100, and then it's all handed over to the student. There really isn't a transition period.

 

I've done cores D-F with my DD, and this year for Core F was the first time I handed a few of the shorter history books to my DD to read to herself. That was strictly a time management decision for me, as I have two cores going at once. But, I plan on doing the same over the next few years as prep for the HS cores.

 

For your core B-ers, I just want to echo what others have said about utlizing the library big time for readers. I don't even use SL's reader packages for my DS who is finishing up Core B. I never have, because the ideal reader package at the time was still never enough for my DS, and I also felt there were too many he wouldn't care for. So I use the reader booklists up through readers 4/5 and make my own reading list for DS utilizing TONS of library books that are going to challenge his reading more.

 

It's working well for him, though there is a part of me that would love to be able to use the grade 4/5 readers next year for him, as that would make planning easier on my part. But I don't think he'll enjoy many of them, and since the readers don't tie into the history until Core D, I don't consider them essential.

 

Ease is what I'm looking for! LOL And, I'd like her to read a variety of books and not just American Girl books! It might be that I could use the Grade 3 readers to really work on her narration skills, since they will be easier for her. She'll always be reading something else as well.

 

Interesting about mom reading everything aloud until Core 100. I guess I'll just have to figure out how to make that transition myself. It's important to me that they learn to read and understand and not just listen to me (though I look forward to doing the read alouds together as well). That might be one way to make things a bit more challenging for my oldest and not overwhelm my middle one. And, in a few years, I'll have #3 to worry about, so I'll need to older two to be able to do some independently by then.

[squirtymomma]

B and C are dire they are soooo drawn out. You'll be heartily sick of Egypt by the time you get thru.

 

Id do b+c if you must do SL.

 

Otherwise Id look at Winterpromise, just bc the ages of your kids are so young and SL does sort of presume a level of reading comp by level D that isnt always realistic for a young 8 or a 7 yr old.

 

I think of the WP programs the one that people like the most is American Story 1 and your kids would be on target for it now.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but we've just finished early American history this year.

[squirtymomma]

How strange, I just thought that the kids were supposed to read the books except for the ones that are marked to be read aloud. Isn't that why they are supposed to develop a love of reading? What about all of those cute snapshots in the catalog of kids reading?

 

I'm doing core D with my eight year old (got it used to try out) and she has no problem reading the books herself. She does have an eighth grade reading comprehension level, so maybe that is why it works for us. But I still don't understand the idea of not having the kids read the books.

 

I thought I would like the comprehension questions that Sonlight has in the IG (thought I could save some time by not reading the books myself) but over time I have to say that I think that those questions are pretty superficial. Like someone glanced through the chapter and made up one or two questions without reading the chapter. Heck, I can do that! But it is much better to actually read the chapter to come up with some real comprehension questions that actually challenge the child rather than some dull comprehension questions that seem to be designed to merely check if the child actually read (or paid attention to someone else reading, apparently) the chapter.

 

One poster noted she read aloud to her children because the books contained vocabulary that they would not understand and would skip over and that she read aloud so that she could explain the words. Well, why can't Sonlight have a vocabulary list with each book or each chapter of each book? I find I DO have to read the books myself to find the vocabulary words for my daughter AND to find better comprehension questions. There are curricula out there that actually list the vocabulary FIRST and have the kids look up the words before they read (or are read) the chapter. So, that is now what I have to do, because Sonlight doesn't do that and because my kid actually reads the darn book.

 

The schedule also doesn't work for us, since my daughter reads faster than she is apparently supposed to. I'm of the opinion that you don't interrupt a reading eight year old, so we have had to make a number of trips to the library to supplement with other fiction novels set in the general time period we are studying. Now that I've seen the light that the kids aren't actually supposed to read the books I understand why the schedule only requires a chapter a day. Unfortunately, it won't work in my house. There is a peculiar mental state that one enters into as one reads that is more conducive to feeling as though one is actually there, that I want my children to experience, and that mental state doesn't happen when I jerk the book out of my child's hands after one chapter.

 

Overall, I guess I like some of the Sonlight book selections. I think the IG with the comprehension questions and schedule mostly worthless. I have had to do my own schedule and make up my own more challenging comprehension questions, which is even more pathetic since I'm using a core that is considered ahead of grade level for my eight year old daughter. We talk about more than 'what month is the corn planted' and examine character, setting, motivation, and especially interesting or poignant sentences. We talk about vocabulary and why the writer chose a particular word in a particular sentence. Sonlight doesn't even begin to cut it in my house.

 

I haven't tried their readers (seems like a waste of time after my experience with their core) or their LA (I tend to prefer more rigorous curriculum). So, I won't be ordering from Sonlight. I think of it more as a 'lit-light' than a true literature-based curriculum.

 

I recommend checking out a number of suggested reading lists and coming up with your own program. I'm currently working on adding my five year old and his reading into our daily schedule. Our days don't end at lunchtime, as seems to be highly desired by many here on the board, but we do enjoy taking the time to really read and enjoy our books.

 

I know SL isn't perfect... I've heard many similar complaints as yours. I *think* we can make it work for us, but we'll see. I personally don't want to do a lot of lit analysis at this age, though I probably won't use the SL comprehension questions much either. It seems to me that some of the books are really rich and deep and some are lighter and easier, and that is intentional. I feel like I can get too caught up in putting together a rigorous curriculum when I haven't read hardly any of these books. I don't have time to put it all together and still be a mom. Or, that's how it seems right now with a very destructive toddler on the loose. LOL We'll see how this year goes, and we might be changing direction the next year.

 

It is interesting to hear that you do have your child reading the books herself. I think we can make a plan where we have a mix of me reading aloud and my oldest reading some for herself that will work well for everyone.