Hmmm... I'm thinking Lightening Literature is going to let us down

[Parrothead]

This is dd's third year with it. She is actually doing one grade level ahead - in 7th grade doing 8th grade LL.

 

She is sitting on the other side of the room from me making all the frustration noises while taking Hewitt's PASS test for reading. I walked by a few minutes ago and she has only filled in about a quarter of the bubbles on the Scranton sheet yet she was on the next to the last page of the test.

 

With both the test and the reading program coming from the same publisher one would think if nothing else she would do well on the reading portion.

 

I guess I know where a major focus is going to have to be next year.

[Parrothead]

Well, she finished this portion of the test.

 

The ones she did answer are more than half wrong.

 

What to do now?

[redsquirrel]

Well, from what I remember of the PASS test, it is supposed to be done at a challenging level, no? I remember my kid took a pre-test to place him and then he took the actual test. Perhaps the challenge is just that she is testing at a high level and the challenge is a good one.

[Parrothead]

Well, from what I remember of the PASS test, it is supposed to be done at a challenging level, no? I remember my kid took a pre-test to place him and then he took the actual test. Perhaps the challenge is just that she is testing at a high level and the challenge is a good one.

Yes, I believe you may be right. Since she took the test last year there wasn't a placement test with this set.

[Trish]

We're doing similar -- LL8 for my 7th grader. I'm not sure I get the connection you're making between the Lit curriculum and the reading portion of the PASs test. We work on Reading Comprehension skills for that sort of thing (e.g. Critical Thinking Co's Reading Detective Gr. 7/8) Literary analysis is kind of a separate issue. I wouldn't assume the Lit program was at fault if she's having trouble with reading comprehension. (having said that, we're not doing any of the highschool Lightning Lits next year for 8th since some people think they're weak, comparatively. So we're trying Windows to the World -- IEW lit, for next year) However my younger son will be starting Lightning Lit 7.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Well, from what I remember of the PASS test, it is supposed to be done at a challenging level, no? I remember my kid took a pre-test to place him and then he took the actual test. Perhaps the challenge is just that she is testing at a high level and the challenge is a good one.

 

My kid uses the PASS test. I thought he'd bomb but he came back with very good results. You never know until they grade it.

[Mom22ns]

I also don't see the connection between a lit program and reading comprehension. Lit programs do not teaching reading comprehension, that isn't the point.

 

We tried Reading Detectives, but what we stuck with was Wordly Wise. In addition to vocabulary building each week has a passage to read and comprehension questions. When my kids started this, they were terrible at it, although they read far ahead of grade level. Now ds whizzes through those passages and rarely misses anything. Dd has improved, but isn't quite to his level yet.

 

If the test results end up showing she has reading comprehension issues (at least for standardized tests) don't leave LL, just add something to work more on comprehension.

[Lori D.]

Just to encourage you -- LL8 is NOTHING like a reading test or standardized test!

 

 

It looks like the PASS reading test is a standardized test to compare a student's reading comprehension and word usage with other students for national comparison of your student's working level. It is meant to measure academic growth, or for grade placement purposes.

 

 

In contrast, LL8 is a beginning literary analysis program (discussing the themes, setting, characters, genre, etc. in a work of literature and how these elements bring out deeper meaning). It is not timed. There is no fill-in-the-bubble or multiple choice. It is not about comprehension or word usage, but about learning how to look deeper into a work of literature.

 

LL8 has a very gentle, easy reading schedule (weeks scheduled to read the book); about 6 pages of information on the literary lesson, and explaining how the literary element is working in the book being read; about 8 workpages which help practice the literary element being taught (a variety of types of workpages: a few are grammar usage mechanics; some are beginning literary analysis on an excerpt; a few "make a list" activities; etc.). A student can easily do 1 workpage a day in about 10-20 minutes -- or, have the student only do half a workpage if it seems too much.

 

Hope you will soon be done with your standardized PASS testing, so you can get on to the real and enjoyable adventure of learning about literature with LL8! BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Lori D.

[Parrothead]

I also don't see the connection between a lit program and reading comprehension. Lit programs do not teaching reading comprehension, that isn't the point.

 

We tried Reading Detectives, but what we stuck with was Wordly Wise. In addition to vocabulary building each week has a passage to read and comprehension questions. When my kids started this, they were terrible at it, although they read far ahead of grade level. Now ds whizzes through those passages and rarely misses anything. Dd has improved, but isn't quite to his level yet.

 

If the test results end up showing she has reading comprehension issues (at least for standardized tests) don't leave LL, just add something to work more on comprehension.

It isn't the comprehension parts of the test that she is having problems with. Those are the only thing she's done right.

 

The other two parts are the problem. I suppose we just got unlucky. None of the vocabulary words are words she's ever studied. Not a single one. We do vocab in lit, history, science, and writing. Still none of the words one the test are something we've gone over.

 

Then the other part is something like "find the most objective, concise, something or other" sentence out of these four.

 

Nope, in 8 years of homeschooling I've never run across anything like these. We aren't unschoolers. We've done FLL (all 4 years), CW (Aesop, Homer, Maxim), CW Poetry (beginning and intermediate) AAS, LL 7 and she is finishing up 8, along with narration and copywork a la TWTM.

 

Maybe a little teaching to the test isn't such a bad thing after all. Which is what I'm going to spend Monday and Tuesday doing. Then I'll let her retake that portion of the test.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Parrothead

[Parrothead]

Just to encourage you -- LL8 is NOTHING like a reading test or standardized test!

 

 

It looks like the PASS reading test is a standardized test to compare a student's reading comprehension and word usage with other students for national comparison of your student's working level. It is meant to measure academic growth, or for grade placement purposes.

 

 

In contrast, LL8 is a beginning literary analysis program (discussing the themes, setting, characters, genre, etc. in a work of literature and how these elements bring out deeper meaning). It is not timed. There is no fill-in-the-bubble or multiple choice. It is not about comprehension or word usage, but about learning how to look deeper into a work of literature.

 

LL8 has a very gentle, easy reading schedule (weeks scheduled to read the book); about 6 pages of information on the literary lesson, and explaining how the literary element is working in the book being read; about 8 workpages which help practice the literary element being taught (a variety of types of workpages: a few are grammar usage mechanics; some are beginning literary analysis on an excerpt; a few "make a list" activities; etc.). A student can easily do 1 workpage a day in about 10-20 minutes -- or, have the student only do half a workpage if it seems too much.

 

Hope you will soon be done with your standardized PASS testing, so you can get on to the real and enjoyable adventure of learning about literature with LL8! BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

I'm familiar with all of the above as we've worked through LL7 last year and are finishing up LL8 in the next three weeks.

[Lori D.]

I'm familiar with all of the above as we've worked through LL7 last year and are finishing up LL8 in the next three weeks.

 

Aha... I misunderstood. So, it sounds like you had the expectation that LL would teach reading comprehension for the PASS test... Is that it?

[Parrothead]

Aha... I misunderstood. So, it sounds like you had the expectation that LL would teach reading comprehension for the PASS test... Is that it?

No, as I said upthread somewhere comprehension is the only part of the test that dd did well on. Check post 8. There were maybe 10 comprehension questions our to the 40 or so in the test. The rest of the test was just stuff she'd never seen before.

 

I suppose what I expected was in taking 8th grade lit, one wouldn't need to take a separate reading course.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Parrothead

[Chris in VA]

Oops, double post. See below.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Chris in VA

[Chris in VA]

It sounds like it's more grammar and vocab, which isn't usually the focus of a lit course. Is that it?

 

For vocab, it seems to me that a root-based program would help her a lot. You don't have to study each individual word--so she can attack words she's never seen, because knowing the roots will help her at least get the gist of the word. In a testing situation, it helps at least narrow the choices. Have you done a root program before?

 

As far as picking "the concise" sentence, or "best" sentence, that's grammar. There's a lot of that on the SAT, fyi. It's pretty advanced grammar (the part I stink at!).

 

There's no shame in seeing weaknesses and teaching those areas a little more.

That's what assessments are for, in part--not only to show what the kiddo has learned, but to show the teacher how to plan for the future!:001_smile:

 

ETA: ooo, here's a link that might help her find errors and correct them. SAT sentence stuff.

[Parrothead]

It sounds like it's more grammar and vocab, which isn't usually the focus of a lit course. Is that it?

 

For vocab, it seems to me that a root-based program would help her a lot. You don't have to study each individual word--so she can attack words she's never seen, because knowing the roots will help her at least get the gist of the word. In a testing situation, it helps at least narrow the choices. Have you done a root program before?

 

As far as picking "the concise" sentence, or "best" sentence, that's grammar. There's a lot of that on the SAT, fyi. It's pretty advanced grammar (the part I stink at!).

 

There's no shame in seeing weaknesses and teaching those areas a little more.

That's what assessments are for, in part--not only to show what the kiddo has learned, but to show the teacher how to plan for the future!:001_smile:

 

ETA: ooo, here's a link that might help her find errors and correct them. SAT sentence stuff.

I'm so glad you posted. I was just getting ready to start a thread asking what it is we need to do to correct this situation.

 

I've put the vocab recommendation from TWTM in my Amazon cart to begin next year. The hit and miss style (picking words from other subjects) obviously won't work in the long run. At least not for testing purposes.

 

I had no idea the concise/best sentence thing is considered grammar. I thought she was getting enough grammar from both CW and the Latin Road. Looks like I might have to incorporate a specific grammar course. Or maybe there is a book that is full of concise/best sentence training.

 

I should wait and see how she does on the language portion of the test. I looked it over and there is nothing that should stump her. Considering that I made a poster for the dining room wall that describes the use of ______/_______. :D