Please help! I'm trying to integrate ideas from TWTM for history

[Mom0012]

I'm really getting nervous about homeschooling now that my son is getting closer to high school, so please help me out here if you can.

 

I am going to be using SL 6/G with my children next year. They will be in 5th and 7th grades. SL 6 incorporates SOTW 1 & 2 in their history schedule. I want to beef things up and work on using some of the ideas from TWTM.

 

So far, I have scheduled out The Kingfisher History Encyclopedia (red book) to go along with the SOTW readings according to the SOTW AGs.

 

Do I have my kids outline from the Kingfisher or just write down 5 or 6 facts? There are discrepancies between the 2nd and 3rd editions of TWTM. I'm tempted to do our outlining from the Kingfisher since I have it, but I do also have Human Odyssey. In another thread, someone said that it was impossible to do more than a one-level outline from the Kingfisher. Have you found this to be true? I would like to be doing 2-level outlines by the end of the year.

 

I will have my kids each do their own timeline and ask them why they picked what they did to try to generate discussion. We will also try to make connections between events on the timeline.

 

They will also use MapTrek and compare their maps to the globe and a wall map.

 

What do they do their summaries on? We will be reading a ton of historical fiction with SL, but since these are long chapter books, I'm thinking they'll have a tough time writing summaries for them. Or am I thinking incorrectly? To me, it would make sense to have them write their summaries from their outlines, but this does not seem to be what SWB intends. Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

Lastly, I thought I would use World History Detective as we hit the topics in that book in our regular reading.

 

What else should I be doing or what should I change? I'm open to any suggestions. I'm really starting to feel anxious about making sure my 7th grader develops the skills he needs.

 

TIA!

Lisa

[redsquirrel]

My suggestion, and I don't know it is a good one, is to pick an edition of TWTM and stick with it. I use the history guidelines from the 3rd ed. I find those guidelines to be very simple to implement. I personally cannot imagine how difficult it would be to outline effectively from any of those encyclopedias. But, some people do.

 

I also like how the 3rd edition is easily transferable to any resource. If Kingfisher goes OOP, that is fine because you can use something else.

 

I have my son write narration (summaries) from Human Odyssey or other middle grades level non-fiction text. I also have him outline from the same resource. I use many different books. SWB specifically says that students should not outline from SOTW 1 or 2 due to their narrative nature, but people have their kids do it. My son doesn't. Narrative writing, fiction, historical fiction etc isn't used for outlining.

 

I do think in 7th grade SWB suggests the student try writing a summary from their own outline. It is discussed in her Mp3 about writing in the middle grades. I don't think it is necessary every week though.

 

I am interested to see what others suggest.

[Mom0012]

My suggestion, and I don't know it is a good one, is to pick an edition of TWTM and stick with it. I use the history guidelines from the 3rd ed. I find those guidelines to be very simple to implement. I personally cannot imagine how difficult it would be to outline effectively from any of those encyclopedias. But, some people do.

 

I also like how the 3rd edition is easily transferable to any resource. If Kingfisher goes OOP, that is fine because you can use something else.

 

I have my son write narration (summaries) from Human Odyssey or other middle grades level non-fiction text. I also have him outline from the same resource. I use many different books. SWB specifically says that students should not outline from SOTW 1 or 2 due to their narrative nature, but people have their kids do it. My son doesn't. Narrative writing, fiction, historical fiction etc isn't used for outlining.

 

I do think in 7th grade SWB suggests the student try writing a summary from their own outline. It is discussed in her Mp3 about writing in the middle grades. I don't think it is necessary every week though.

 

I am interested to see what others suggest.

 

Thank you! So you would recommend using the KHE to write down 5 or 6 facts and then using Human Odyssey to outline from? Or do you have other favorite sources? I was thinking about investing in some of the Suzanne Strauss Art books recommended in the TWTM. How often do you have your kids write summaries? I think for my son, he would have a much easier time writing his summary from the outline. I will have to listen to that Mp3 if I can figure out how to do that.

 

The big benefit I see in outlining from the KHE is that it cuts out one step -- writing out the 5 or 6 facts. And, I guess, it also cuts out finding and reading another source to outline from. We'll be doing a lot of reading with SL, so I'm just not sure how much additional time he's going to have to follow up on a topic he's interested in from the KHE. He is reading Human Odyssey on his own right now for fun, though, and enjoying it, so maybe it would be okay.

 

I would like to stick with one version of TWTM, but the 2nd version seems so much clearer on what to outline (KHE) and the 3rd gives better instructions on how to actually carry that out, so I keep flipping back and forth.

 

Thanks again!

Lisa

Edited April 9, 2012 by LisaTheresa

[Mom0012]

Okay, I found all the old posts about doing history TWTM way. So maybe the Kingfisher isn't the best option for outlining. Now, I'm thinking I'll use Human Odyssey or The World in Ancient Times or the Suzanne Strauss books for outlining.

 

Then, I would use the Kingfisher for writing down 5 or 6 facts and finding dates for out timelines.

 

In order to simplify things for myself, I will probably use the SOTW activity guide comprehension questions and narration prompts at least for this year to write our summaries.

 

I'm just wondering if it's going to be way too much. SL 6 does SOTW 1 and 2 in one year, so we'll be using the Kingfisher and writing facts and adding to our timeline 3 - 5 days a week. If we were to narrate and summarize from SOTW - again, it will be 3 - 5 days a week. I need to go listen to those Mp3 files (except I don't have an Mp3 player). I think I'm going to be sick.:ack2:

 

On top of this, both of my kids will be taking an outsourced IEW class, so they will already be writing a paper a week and my son seriously struggles with writing. I am going to try to tie the paper to our history topic whenever possible, but it seems like it will be too much.

 

Lisa

Edited April 9, 2012 by LisaTheresa

[Susie in CA]

Hi Lisa,

 

I think you are right in thinking that it would be too much to do Sonlight and WTM History as well as IEW.

 

If you want them to do more writing for history you may just set yourself a goal of doing one thing a week.

Week 1: Factlist from whatever you are studying using Kingfisher

Week 2: Write an outline from any extra reading (non-fiction)

Week3: Write a summary either from the reading in SOTW or any of the other books they are already reading.

 

I think doing only one type of writing on top of what you already are doing may be managable.

 

Hope this helps.

[2_girls_mommy]

I agree with a couple of points from above. Stick with one edition of WTM history. I am actually going to go with the 2nd edition of WTM logic history for 5th grade. I will have dd outline directly from the red KHE this year, forgoing the list of facts. We may move into that later. But it seems more complicated to me. I would constantly be having to help her make a selection from library books of what to outline which would stress her and me out. I purchased the KHE a long time ago from the 2nd edition's suggestions to use it for grammar stage history memory lists and extra reading and for logic stage history. That was just my plan all along before the 3rd came out, and I am not changing it now :) Then once in a while, not twice a week as suggested in WTM, I will have her do a summary of some of her extra reading. We will be reading SOTW again, but the summaries will not come from there. Partly because my dd has gone all the way through SOTW series, and she did the summaries the first time around. The reason that I will not have her do it twice a week is that she will be doing summaries from CHOLL that schedules lit along with history. If we weren't doing that, we would do the summaries from straight history more often.

 

Secondly I agree that you have a lot of stuff going on with SL, TWTM, and IEW. It would be hard to outline from every week of not one but two volumes of SOTW alongside all of that. I would focus on different aspects of it at a time, but try to cover each aspect at some point over the course of the year when it wasn't getting in the way of your IEW. In one regard though, it will be easy to have books to summarize from, since SL will schedule that out for you.

[Mom0012]

Hi Lisa,

 

I think you are right in thinking that it would be too much to do Sonlight and WTM History as well as IEW.

 

If you want them to do more writing for history you may just set yourself a goal of doing one thing a week.

Week 1: Factlist from whatever you are studying using Kingfisher

Week 2: Write an outline from any extra reading (non-fiction)

Week3: Write a summary either from the reading in SOTW or any of the other books they are already reading.

 

I think doing only one type of writing on top of what you already are doing may be managable.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Yes, we are definitely not going to be able to do it all. I wish I didn't keep reading that the Kingfisher is difficult to outline from because that would really streamline things for me. I've spent a little time looking at it already and I can see what people mean. A 1-step outline might be manageable, but I think my son will soon be ready for 2-step outlines and I'm not sure how easy that will be. My son loves the KHE, but I hate the idea of just using it for writing a list of facts and then pulling out yet another source to outline from and then yet another source to write a summary from, especially with all the reading we'll be doing with SL. I'd like to outline, pull timelines dates and write a summary all from the KHE, but it just doesn't look like that will work.

 

Thanks for your input, Susie!

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

I agree with a couple of points from above. Stick with one edition of WTM history. I am actually going to go with the 2nd edition of WTM logic history for 5th grade. I will have dd outline directly from the red KHE this year, forgoing the list of facts. We may move into that later. But it seems more complicated to me. I would constantly be having to help her make a selection from library books of what to outline which would stress her and me out. I purchased the KHE a long time ago from the 2nd edition's suggestions to use it for grammar stage history memory lists and extra reading and for logic stage history. That was just my plan all along before the 3rd came out, and I am not changing it now :) Then once in a while, not twice a week as suggested in WTM, I will have her do a summary of some of her extra reading. We will be reading SOTW again, but the summaries will not come from there. Partly because my dd has gone all the way through SOTW series, and she did the summaries the first time around. The reason that I will not have her do it twice a week is that she will be doing summaries from CHOLL that schedules lit along with history. If we weren't doing that, we would do the summaries from straight history more often.

 

Secondly I agree that you have a lot of stuff going on with SL, TWTM, and IEW. It would be hard to outline from every week of not one but two volumes of SOTW alongside all of that. I would focus on different aspects of it at a time, but try to cover each aspect at some point over the course of the year when it wasn't getting in the way of your IEW. In one regard though, it will be easy to have books to summarize from, since SL will schedule that out for you.

 

Thanks! Like you, I was thinking I would just outline from the KHE as suggested in the 2nd edition, but my son is in 7th grade and ready for 2 step outlines. I am going to take another look at the encyclopedia, but I don't think that's going to work for us.

 

And you are 100% right. I am just going to have to pick and choose among the WTM things I want to do. I'm hoping we can at least do the timeline and mapping and one outline per week.

 

Lisa

[redsquirrel]

I agree with a couple of points from above. Stick with one edition of WTM history. I am actually going to go with the 2nd edition of WTM logic history for 5th grade. I will have dd outline directly from the red KHE this year, forgoing the list of facts. We may move into that later. But it seems more complicated to me. I would constantly be having to help her make a selection from library books of what to outline which would stress her and me out. I purchased the KHE a long time ago from the 2nd edition's suggestions to use it for grammar stage history memory lists and extra reading and for logic stage history. That was just my plan all along before the 3rd came out, and I am not changing it now :) Then once in a while, not twice a week as suggested in WTM, I will have her do a summary of some of her extra reading. We will be reading SOTW again, but the summaries will not come from there. Partly because my dd has gone all the way through SOTW series, and she did the summaries the first time around. The reason that I will not have her do it twice a week is that she will be doing summaries from CHOLL that schedules lit along with history. If we weren't doing that, we would do the summaries from straight history more often.

 

Secondly I agree that you have a lot of stuff going on with SL, TWTM, and IEW. It would be hard to outline from every week of not one but two volumes of SOTW alongside all of that. I would focus on different aspects of it at a time, but try to cover each aspect at some point over the course of the year when it wasn't getting in the way of your IEW. In one regard though, it will be easy to have books to summarize from, since SL will schedule that out for you.

 

I wanted to reply to a couple things. I think you are totally correct to do whatever works for you. That is always the way to go.

 

I do want to assure you, and any anyone else that reads this, that the 3rd edition method isn't complicated or stressful. I don't have my kid to go the library and find resources. Mostly, I have him read from a middle grades text such as Human Odyssey or one of the Oxford history books. But I also might use a primary source, a biography or a book written on a specific topic (DK book about the vikings etc.) I have a lot of those about the house that I have collected from library sales or get myself from the library. I have never spend much $ at all. Mostly they come from library sales and used book stores. I assign him to read section or chapter from (usually) Human Odyssey that corresponds to whatever the assignment was in the encyclopedia. I have him pick a subchapter for writing his narration. It isn't difficult to find something that has to do with the facts he picked from the encyclopedia. It is generally pretty obvious. Later that week he does an outline from the reading, but it will be a different subchapter.

 

His weeks are very consistent.

1. Encyclopedia+mapwork+timeline

2 Read and write narration

3 Outline

 

All I have to do is assign from the encyclopedia and the reading. Every year the writing becomes a little longer and more detailed.

 

Again, if you have found what is comfortable for you then that is always the best. I just don't want anyone to avoid something because it sounds complicated.

[2_girls_mommy]

For people like me that don't own the books you are talking about and would have to visit the library more often, an extra step would be more complicated in that regard:) I don't mean hard. It could be done. But I choose not to. It will be easier and more consistant for me to use what I have on hand for our first year.

 

I can see where the OP has an older child with greater outlining needs than mine. My suggestions won't be helpful for her. I hope you find what works best!

 

And thanks Redsquirrel for always posting your experience on here. I am always reading it as I get ready to start logic stage.

[redsquirrel]

Well, to be fair, I thought it sounded horrible and difficult when I first read it in TWTM. My mind was racing like :willy_nilly: And I could NOT figure how how I was supposed to find the time to get my kid to the library, get my son to find a book, read said book, write a narration and an outline all in one week. And then do it again the next week. No. way. LALALALA I can't hear you!!!

 

Then someone here mentioned how she used a middle grade text book she bought used from Amazon and just gave her kid assignments. Everything opened up for me. Things became so much more manageable. Of course, then I had to find a textbook :lol:

 

So, when people say it looks complicated etc. I remember how impossible the whole thing looked to me.

[Lori D.]

Hi Lisa! Sounds like you've got a good handle on the History portion, and everyone is adding helps for the History aspect of WTM to prepare for high school, so I'll make my 2 cents worth about the prep for high school Literature portion of WTM. (We did our Lit. 8th-12th grade along the lines of WTM/WEM.) :)

 

For your 7th grader, you might want to begin some very gentle intro to literary terms and discussion (not comprehension) questions. For example, consider going through Figuratively Speaking aloud together. Maybe do 1-2 literary elements per week, and then actively look for those elements in whatever Literature you are reading.

 

Another idea: we found Lightning Lit 7 to be a wonderfully gentle program to ease into The Great Books and intro into literary analysis (which is what you will be doing more at the high school level).

 

LL7 is 8 units long, which is pretty easy to complete in less than the full year it is scheduled for. LL7 has a student book (where the "meat" of the program is), and a teacher book with answers, a schedule, some teaching tips, and some discussion questions. The Student Book has 2 parts:

 

1. Student Guide; each unit contains:

- a page intro about each author, and tips on what to look for as you read.

- vocabulary list with definitions to make reading the book easier.

- comprehension questions to help student focus on key details.

- 6-10 teaching text pages (written to the student) about a literary element and examples of how that literary element is used in the work being read to go with that unit.

- a 2-3 page "mini-writing lesson" with information/tips on various aspects of writing (examples: how to cite sources; how to take notes; etc.)

- choice from 4-8 longer writing assignment ideas for finishing up each unit

 

2. Workpages Section contains:

- 8-10 worksheets per unit to help student practice the literary element, occasional grammar aspect (punctuation, capitalization, etc.), or beginning analysis of an excerpt from literature.

- Sometimes a short story or a segment of a longer work is reproduced for the student to read/analyze.

 

LL7

1 = "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" (short story)

literary lesson: plot line

mini writing lesson: openings

 

2. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (realistic novel)

literary lesson: plot line in a novel

mini writing lesson: outlines

 

3. poetry unit -- 7 poems

literary lesson: rhyme

mini writing lesson: limerick and haiku

 

4. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (fantasy novel)

literary lesson: creativitiy

mini writing lesson: nonce words

 

5. "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky" (short story)

literary lesson: saying it with style

mini writing lesson: writing about yourself

 

6. The Story of My Life (autobiography)

literary lesson: autobiography

mini writing lesson: brainstorming

 

7. poetry unit -- 6 poems

literary lesson: sound

mini writing lesson: cinquain and the list poem

 

8. All Creatures Great and Small (realistic/humorous novel)

literary lesson: character sketch

mini writing lesson: choosing a topic

 

 

Another option might be to include 2-3 Great Books this year for your 7th grader, and use an individual, meaty literature guide to go with each work you select. Go with works that would be especially of interest to your 7th grader to make that transition into deeper reading/discussion fun. Perhaps something like The Hobbit, The Giver, or other work that has a good guide (such as the Discovering Literature series from Garlic Press publishers that I linked). The free Glencoe Literature Library guides, and some of the high school Progeny Press guides are good -- Call of the Wild or Animal Farm would be do-able with a 7th grader.

 

 

Whether doing History, Science or Literature, or even watching movies together, this is the age to be getting them thinking critically; ask questions like:

- what do you think will be the consequences of his choices?

- what is similar/different about this that we've seen elsewhere?

- why did this happen?

- what could we do to make a different outcome? why would that change things?

- what's the connection between these works/choices/characters, etc.

 

BEST of luck in your WTM Literature adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Lori D.

[Mom0012]

Well, to be fair, I thought it sounded horrible and difficult when I first read it in TWTM. My mind was racing like :willy_nilly: And I could NOT figure how how I was supposed to find the time to get my kid to the library, get my son to find a book, read said book, write a narration and an outline all in one week. And then do it again the next week. No. way. LALALALA I can't hear you!!!

 

Then someone here mentioned how she used a middle grade text book she bought used from Amazon and just gave her kid assignments. Everything opened up for me. Things became so much more manageable. Of course, then I had to find a textbook :lol:

 

So, when people say it looks complicated etc. I remember how impossible the whole thing looked to me.

 

Thanks for saying this! I keep thinking this should not feel so difficult.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

Hi Lisa! Sounds like you've got a good handle on the History portion, and everyone is adding helps for the History aspect of WTM to prepare for high school, so I'll make my 2 cents worth about the prep for high school Literature portion of WTM. (We did our Lit. 8th-12th grade along the lines of WTM/WEM.) :)

 

For your 7th grader, you might want to begin some very gentle intro to literary terms and discussion (not comprehension) questions. For example, consider going through Figuratively Speaking aloud together. Maybe do 1-2 literary elements per week, and then actively look for those elements in whatever Literature you are reading.

 

Another idea: we found Lightning Lit 7 to be a wonderfully gentle program to ease into The Great Books and intro into literary analysis (which is what you will be doing more at the high school level).

 

LL7 is 8 units long, which is pretty easy to complete in less than the full year it is scheduled for. LL7 has a student book (where the "meat" of the program is), and a teacher book with answers, a schedule, some teaching tips, and some discussion questions. The Student Book has 2 parts:

 

1. Student Guide; each unit contains:

- a page intro about each author, and tips on what to look for as you read.

- vocabulary list with definitions to make reading the book easier.

- comprehension questions to help student focus on key details.

- 6-10 teaching text pages (written to the student) about a literary element and examples of how that literary element is used in the work being read to go with that unit.

- a 2-3 page "mini-writing lesson" with information/tips on various aspects of writing (examples: how to cite sources; how to take notes; etc.)

- choice from 4-8 longer writing assignment ideas for finishing up each unit

 

2. Workpages Section contains:

- 8-10 worksheets per unit to help student practice the literary element, occasional grammar aspect (punctuation, capitalization, etc.), or beginning analysis of an excerpt from literature.

- Sometimes a short story or a segment of a longer work is reproduced for the student to read/analyze.

 

LL7

1 = "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" (short story)

literary lesson: plot line

mini writing lesson: openings

 

2. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (realistic novel)

literary lesson: plot line in a novel

mini writing lesson: outlines

 

3. poetry unit -- 7 poems

literary lesson: rhyme

mini writing lesson: limerick and haiku

 

4. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (fantasy novel)

literary lesson: creativitiy

mini writing lesson: nonce words

 

5. "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky" (short story)

literary lesson: saying it with style

mini writing lesson: writing about yourself

 

6. The Story of My Life (autobiography)

literary lesson: autobiography

mini writing lesson: brainstorming

 

7. poetry unit -- 6 poems

literary lesson: sound

mini writing lesson: cinquain and the list poem

 

8. All Creatures Great and Small (realistic/humorous novel)

literary lesson: character sketch

mini writing lesson: choosing a topic

 

 

Another option might be to include 2-3 Great Books this year for your 7th grader, and use an individual, meaty literature guide to go with each work you select. Go with works that would be especially of interest to your 7th grader to make that transition into deeper reading/discussion fun. Perhaps something like The Hobbit, The Giver, or other work that has a good guide (such as the Discovering Literature series from Garlic Press publishers that I linked). The free Glencoe Literature Library guides, and some of the high school Progeny Press guides are good -- Call of the Wild or Animal Farm would be do-able with a 7th grader.

 

 

Whether doing History, Science or Literature, or even watching movies together, this is the age to be getting them thinking critically; ask questions like:

- what do you think will be the consequences of his choices?

- what is similar/different about this that we've seen elsewhere?

- why did this happen?

- what could we do to make a different outcome? why would that change things?

- what's the connection between these works/choices/characters, etc.

 

BEST of luck in your WTM Literature adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thanks, Lori! I'm all :bigear: whenever I see you post. The next thing I knew I was going to have to tackle was literature and everything is complicated by the fact that I love SL and don't want to drop it. I really think what I've bolded from your quote is very helpful. We are actually supposed to do The Hobbit as a read aloud with Core F, but maybe we'll read it independently and then use the literature guides you suggested. I was kind of thinking of doing something like that with a few books a year. I will also take a look at Figuratively Speaking. I love the discussion questions you listed. We have done a lot of reading over the years, but I really want to start increasing our output in terms of writing and discussion.

 

Thanks!

Lisa

Edited April 9, 2012 by LisaTheresa