Landlord Vent: Need sympathy!

[swellmomma]

We have an awful landlord right now. Actually, I'm not sure if she is still our landlord since the bankrupcty court is allowing her to abandon this house.

 

Our landlord didn't think fixing a pump in the basement was a good investment, even though every time we used the toilet, the water flowed all over the floor since the pump was DEAD and couldn't get the water to the septic system.

 

The dishwasher in this house was prone to leaking so instead of fixing that, she just kept replacing the ceiling tiles under it. Until one day I went downstairs to find the light fixture under the dishwasher on FIRE and mold all over the insulation between the floor and ceiling. Eep.

 

But it's all working out in the end. We're going to buy the house from the foreclosing bank and the landlord will be completely out of profiting from it.

 

Oh, and she stole our depost. lol

 

I am glad you are able to buy the place. I was going to ask if she was abandoning it if you would be able to claim squatters right's if you simply never moved out.

[mommaduck]

Can you replace it with a cheaper one?

[KatieJ]

my husband and I have considered investing in income property. Are there any good books or websites to educate ourselves?

 

 

We have been landlords for over 30 years. I could/should write that book!

 

(Having a bad week here..Property manager walked out on us leaving tenants that are 3.5 months behind in their rent. Yes, we know why she is ticked, but the feeling is mutual at this point and we have contacted an attorney.)

[TranquilMind]

Jennifer3141: The problem is, she waited too long and has mutiple houses and has lied to the bankrupcty court. And is still trying to collect RENT from her tenants. She is not legally entitled to do so however.

 

 

She can collect rent until the house is no longer in her name. But it isn't ethical to keep it if she owes the bank money, even if she can get away with it.

 

 

4. It's a FABULOUS deal for the price of the first mortgage only - which is what we are going through the process to do. It's not a screaming deal for the cost of the second mortgage too but it would be the more "correct" price for the home. If we get it for the first mortgage only, we're paying less than half of the appraisal cost.

 

Don't sign anything unless the second mortgage is wiped clean. Don't sign subject-to, which I'm sure you know.

 

 

We're just going to have to ride out the 6 month redemption period on that second mortgage. And I'm not paying a dime for this house until I know exactly who wants what for it.

 

You will have to pay SOMEBODY rent, most likely the bank. If you just don't pay, you will be evicted. So make sure you document that you are paying as soon as you have notice of whom to pay.

 

It'll be an empty victory either way though and we'd be suing her out of spite. Because again, she's got no/hidden her money. So I'm back to garnishing someone who makes minimum wage. I think we should walk away. DH is probably going to sue her either way because of what a JERK she's been.

 

I wouldn't sue her either, most likely. You can't get blood out of a turnip, as my Mom used to say.

 

I am always clear to tell my tenants that we are financially stable and that we have owned the property for many years, so they feel more comfortable that we aren't trying to rent out a house we are about to lose. I can understand that concern, certainly.

 

But once she abandons the house formally, she is no longer entitled to the deposit because we will no longer be renting HER home. The bank deserves the deposit but they have no interest in taking it and assuming a landlord/tenant relationship. They want to be a BANK. :001_smile:

 

Only when the house is no longer in her name is she not entitled to the deposit. This is between she and the bank, however they want to handle it. You don't get it back while you are still in residence regardless who is holding it. But someone needs to hold it and you need to document that.

 

So the gist of my tale of woe is to try to make sure your landlord is on the up and up.

 

Cuts both ways, as many a poor landlord - and tenant - has discovered.

 

My story will probably end up happily ever after because I'm probably getting a great deal on the house and acreage. But whee!!! The drama with the wingnut landlord along the way... If this house wasn't worth it, we'd have been gone long ago.

 

 

Glad it will all be worth it in the end.

[TranquilMind]

We have been landlords for over 30 years. I could/should write that book!

 

(Having a bad week here..Property manager walked out on us leaving tenants that are 3.5 months behind in their rent. Yes, we know why she is ticked, but the feeling is mutual at this point and we have contacted an attorney.)

I'm sorry! I've never had a property manager because mine are close. How did they EVER get past one month late. You file an eviction on day 2 around here, if you are smart.

[KatieJ]

I'm sorry! I've never had a property manager because mine are close. How did they EVER get past one month late. You file an eviction on day 2 around here, if you are smart.

 

Seriously, we have no idea why she let this one go so long. She has a history of being on top of those kinds of things. We live 700 miles a way and well, I would be really happy if DH chose to sell them at this point. Truly I have had enough.

[TranquilMind]

Seriously, we have no idea why she let this one go so long. She has a history of being on top of those kinds of things. We live 700 miles a way and well, I would be really happy if DH chose to sell them at this point. Truly I have had enough.

I've had enough too. I may sell one this summer. Kid goes to college in a few years and I was hoping to hold out but I'm pretty done.

[PrincessMommy]

I've had enough too. I may sell one this summer. Kid goes to college in a few years and I was hoping to hold out but I'm pretty done.

 

how many do you have?

[SKL]

My kids' daycare sends out an upbeat letter every year telling us how wonderful the owner was to not fire anyone despite the bad economy, and how lucky we are that she's only increasing the tuition a little bit. Maybe a letter like that would be interesting for your tenants, if you hear a lot of grumbling. You could use that to let them know about cost increases that they might not be aware of. It's nice to be appreciated when you take one for the team.

 

As for the door, would just removing (not replacing) it be an option? We haven't had a screen door for decades and it hasn't killed us. One less thing to maintain, right? And keep documentation that the tenant accepted the door "as is" and you have been nice enough to remove it for them at no charge.

[Joanne]

One law of business I have come to believe:

 

It's business. Not personal. They DON'T ACTUALLY APPRECIATE ANYTHING YOU DO.

 

Raise all their rents. Give them a couple months notice (just to be nice), and be gradual about it. Raise the rents of the difficult tenants MORE than the cooperative tenants.

 

Take the extra rental income and take yourself out to dinner once a week or once a month. Or take a vacation. Or buy your kids or spouse a treat. Or whatever.

 

Stop treating your tenants with such care and concern. They don't give a flying pig about YOU. Save your compassion and generosity for friends and family who appreciate and deserve it. Or for true charity if you are so inclined.

 

I'm a renter and I (pretty much) agree with this. It IS business. The above quote reminds me of the labor/management dichotomy.

 

I have a tale from the other side. ;) But it is really the same thing, just a different perspective. It's a matter of orientation/worldview and not "getting" how the other side can frame a situation.

 

1.5 years ago, I moved out of my foreclosed on home into the rental house of the parents of a friend. They had purchased this house as an investment, and had already been burned by 2 tenants. They (the landlords) were not professionals. They were, in fact, naive and quirky. For example, charging rent to cover their mortgage, even though it was too high for the neighborhood; they truly thought that because their mortgage was "X", they should get that or better - regardless of what homes rented for in their comparitives.

 

Our side: We did move in without a deposit. The dishwasher there was awful (mold that wouldn't go away, or something). We replaced it with ours that was less than 1 year old. We did come with pets, including puppies (remember, I had just been a home owner). DH got sick, and unable to function. Puppies did what puppies to when they are not trained properly. :glare:

 

So........when we moved out, I told them 2 months in advance. I moved in November (around Thanksgiving) but paid the last month's rent (December) as agreed per the lease. They started texting, emailing, and calling us about getting all our stuff out in November. Um? Excuse me? I have access to that house - and could still spend every night there until the New Year.

 

We left the new-ish dishwasher. And, because we got into the home without a deposit, we replaced the carpeting. Wall to wall, slightly upgraded from what they had, some tan color. WHO DOES THAT? No one. They didn't seem to "appreciate" how unheard of that is.

 

They still called during December saying that the "Realtor had been by and there was still furniture, we need it gone to sell/lease." :confused:

 

We left on cordial, but irritated, terms.

[TranquilMind]

SKL: My kids' daycare sends out an upbeat letter every year telling us how wonderful the owner was to not fire anyone despite the bad economy, and how lucky we are that she's only increasing the tuition a little bit. Maybe a letter like that would be interesting for your tenants, if you hear a lot of grumbling. You could use that to let them know about cost increases that they might not be aware of. It's nice to be appreciated when you take one for the team.

 

That's an approach! Seriously, the couple times over the years I increased rents a tiny bit, I did just this. No one cares what it costs us. We are just the "rich landlord" (ha ha ha- if they only knew!).

 

As for the door, would just removing (not replacing) it be an option? We haven't had a screen door for decades and it hasn't killed us. One less thing to maintain, right? And keep documentation that the tenant accepted the door "as is" and you have been nice enough to remove it for them at no charge.

 

I did this last year, and then drove it all over town trying to find someone who could fix it, as well as have two contractors come to the location and try to fix it that way. After I removed it, they begged to have it back - only to give them something to complain about, I guess.

[TranquilMind]

Joanne: I'm a renter and I (pretty much) agree with this. It IS business. The above quote reminds me of the labor/management dichotomy.

 

 

True. My husband is a really nice guy, so nice that he doesn't always realize how the world works. Well, he didn't when we were young. He actually thought he was appreciated at work, until the years went by and he saw that no one is important - you are merely a cog in someone's wheel. They only way you are appreciated is by increases. If there is no money on the table, you are NOT appreciated in the legal world.

 

Show me the money!

 

I have a tale from the other side. ;) But it is really the same thing, just a different perspective. It's a matter of orientation/worldview and not "getting" how the other side can frame a situation.

 

1.5 years ago, I moved out of my foreclosed on home into the rental house of the parents of a friend. They had purchased this house as an investment, and had already been burned by 2 tenants. They (the landlords) were not professionals. They were, in fact, naive and quirky. For example, charging rent to cover their mortgage, even though it was too high for the neighborhood; they truly thought that because their mortgage was "X", they should get that or better - regardless of what homes rented for in their comparitives.

 

 

Yeah, you get what the market will bear at the time. No more.

 

Our side: We did move in without a deposit. The dishwasher there was awful (mold that wouldn't go away, or something). We replaced it with ours that was less than 1 year old. We did come with pets, including puppies (remember, I had just been a home owner). DH got sick, and unable to function. Puppies did what puppies to when they are not trained properly. :glare:

 

 

Puppies? Yikes.

 

So........when we moved out, I told them 2 months in advance. I moved in November (around Thanksgiving) but paid the last month's rent (December) as agreed per the lease. They started texting, emailing, and calling us about getting all our stuff out in November. Um? Excuse me? I have access to that house - and could still spend every night there until the New Year.

 

 

True, but if you are already gone, they may have wanted to get some work done, or the insurance company might have been hassling them about the empty rental. But yes, you have possession until the last date for which you are paid unless you returned possession/keys? This is a little unclear to me.

 

We left the new-ish dishwasher. And, because we got into the home without a deposit, we replaced the carpeting. Wall to wall, slightly upgraded from what they had, some tan color. WHO DOES THAT? No one. They didn't seem to "appreciate" how unheard of that is.

 

 

You said you had puppies, and stated that they did what puppies do, urinate on the floor. If you only replaced the carpeting, without sealing the subfloor (urine smell comes back) and then replacing the pad and the carpeting (not only the carpeting), they had to replace it again anyway. So your gesture, while well-meaning, didn't help at all. If you did all three, believe me, I would have kissed your feet (of course I don't allow pets but).

 

They still called during December saying that the "Realtor had been by and there was still furniture, we need it gone to sell/lease." :confused:

 

 

If you mean that you were out and had cut off utilities, then you are out, you no longer have possession, and your stuff needs to be too. This part is a bit unclear. No utilities = tenant out. If you maintained utilities at the house in your name and had your possessions there and had retained possession according to the terms of the Lease, then I can't understand why they were calling, unless they were just trying to make sure you got everything out on time. Even then, I'd send an email or two and then just have it hauled on the final date if the tenant refused to remove it (abandonment, in my Lease) and take it out of the security deposit. But you left no security deposit because they didn't request one (which I really don't get) so they didn't have that option unless they took it at their own expense.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm not completely understanding your situation. But yeah, we all have stories, don't we, from all perspectives. I was a tenant for 7 years in the same apartment while in college and law school. My landlord was awesome and I was without a TOILET for two months. I had to share theirs. Fun times...

Edited March 30, 2012 by TranquilMind

[SKL]

I did this last year, and then drove it all over town trying to find someone who could fix it, as well as have two contractors come to the location and try to fix it that way. After I removed it, they begged to have it back - only to give them something to complain about, I guess.

 

LOL! You're going to miss them when they're gone.;)

[Joanne]

 

 

True, but if you are already gone, they may have wanted to get some work done, or the insurance company might have been hassling them about the empty rental. But yes, you have possession until the last date for which you are paid unless you returned possession/keys? This is a little unclear to me.

 

 

 

You said you had puppies, and stated that they did what puppies do, urinate on the floor. If you only replaced the carpeting, without sealing the subfloor (urine smell comes back) and then replacing the pad and the carpeting (not only the carpeting), they had to replace it again anyway. So your gesture, while well-meaning, didn't help at all. If you did all three, believe me, I would have kissed your feet (of course I don't allow pets but).

 

 

 

If you mean that you were out and had cut off utilities, then you are out, you no longer have possession, and your stuff needs to be too. This part is a bit unclear. No utilities = tenant out. If you maintained utilities at the house in your name and had your possessions there and had retained possession according to the terms of the Lease, then I can't understand why they were calling, unless they were just trying to make sure you got everything out on time. Even then, I'd send an email or two and then just have it hauled on the final date if the tenant refused to remove it (abandonment, in my Lease) and take it out of the security deposit. But you left no security deposit because they didn't request one (which I really don't get) so they didn't have that option unless they took it at their own expense.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm not completely understanding your situation. But yeah, we all have stories, don't we, from all perspectives. I was a tenant for 7 years in the same apartment while in college and law school. My landlord was awesome and I was without a TOILET for two months. I had to share theirs. Fun times...

 

Let me clarify.

 

I knew in the fall that we'd be moving out at the end of the lease: Dec. 31. I told them of the move in October (late). I paid through December because 1) it was my obligation and 2) I didn't move in one day. :) All utilities were on and in our name through Dec. 31.

 

For the carpet, it was professionally done, sealed, new padding. There'd be no point to do it any other way.

 

As far as access, I do understand they wanted to get into action. There were a few big pieces of furniture left; the dining room set, 2 loveseats, and something else that escapes me now. We were going to donate those to the local domestic abuse organization. All 4 bedrooms were clear and the entire place was cleaned. I didn't object to them or workers being in there, it was the expectation that I *should* have everything out. And, frankly, the lack of appreciation.

 

It's ok; I'm over it. Mostly. ;)

[TranquilMind]

LOL! You're going to miss them when they're gone.;)

Yes, what WILL I do with my time??

[TranquilMind]

Let me clarify.

 

I knew in the fall that we'd be moving out at the end of the lease: Dec. 31. I told them of the move in October (late). I paid through December because 1) it was my obligation and 2) I didn't move in one day. :) All utilities were on and in our name through Dec. 31.

 

For the carpet, it was professionally done, sealed, new padding. There'd be no point to do it any other way.

 

As far as access, I do understand they wanted to get into action. There were a few big pieces of furniture left; the dining room set, 2 loveseats, and something else that escapes me now. We were going to donate those to the local domestic abuse organization. All 4 bedrooms were clear and the entire place was cleaned. I didn't object to them or workers being in there, it was the expectation that I *should* have everything out. And, frankly, the lack of appreciation.

 

It's ok; I'm over it. Mostly. ;)

Well, with that clarification, I have only one thing to say.

 

Those people were nutso!

[Joanne]

Well, with that clarification, I have only one thing to say.

 

Those people were nutso!

 

I think they were just not professionals and possibly not "cut out" to be landlords. The home was new when they purchased it, and they never intended to live in it. Obviously, it was not a "flip". I just don't think they researched or learned how to be landlords.

 

I hope they sold it this time. :)

[Jennifer3141]

She can collect rent until the house is no longer in her name. But it isn't ethical to keep it if she owes the bank money, even if she can get away with it.

 

No, she cannot collect rent because the bankrupcty trustee is not allowing her to do so since she hasn't maintainted the home. Collecting rent would mean she has to maintain the home.

 

 

Don't sign anything unless the second mortgage is wiped clean. Don't sign subject-to, which I'm sure you know.

 

That's why we have to wait through the 6 month redemption period.

 

 

You will have to pay SOMEBODY rent, most likely the bank. If you just don't pay, you will be evicted. So make sure you document that you are paying as soon as you have notice of whom to pay.

 

No, we don't have to pay rent to anyone yet because the bank doesn't want it. If they accept rent, then we have to enter into a landlord/tenantrelationship and they sure as heck don't want to be responsible for the maintenance on this (or any house). The bank is just happy right now that the house is occupied and being maintained. They will be MORE happy when the house is off their books totally, obviously.

 

I wouldn't sue her either, most likely. You can't get blood out of a turnip, as my Mom used to say.

 

I'm pretty sure we're going to go ahead and sue her because she did commit a crime and because we will further damage her credit by doing so. I no longer care if this woman ends up starving in a cardboard box. :glare:

 

I am always clear to tell my tenants that we are financially stable and that we have owned the property for many years, so they feel more comfortable that we aren't trying to rent out a house we are about to lose. I can understand that concern, certainly.

 

 

Only when the house is no longer in her name is she not entitled to the deposit. This is between she and the bank, however they want to handle it. You don't get it back while you are still in residence regardless who is holding it. But someone needs to hold it and you need to document that.

 

Actually, once she stated to the trustee that she is abandoning the house, we became entitled to our deposit back because again, we no longer have a tenant/landlord relationship. But since it's a felony for her to not have our deposit in a separate account per our state, it's a moot point anyway.

Also, she told the trustee that she no longer wants to be informed of issues with the house so his response to her was that obviously then she was no longer our landlord. You cannot rent a house you don't want to maintain at all.

 

 

Cuts both ways, as many a poor landlord - and tenant - has discovered.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone has heard of or lived next door to a bad tenant. My point is, there are derelict landlords out there too. This whole mess with my landlord started because she listed me (the tenant) as a creditor in her bankruptcy. When I called the bankruptcy trustee, we all discovered that my landlord had been lying to the court because she told them that this house hasn't been occupied since 2008 and therefore, she wasn't collecting rent. We've been here since 2010. And we aren't her only "tenants." She also hasn't claimed our rent on her taxes and we've paid her over $40,000 in the 2 1/2 years we've been here. And again, we aren't the only ones. I'm pretty sure at the end of this, she'll be in some sort of jail.

 

Glad it will all be worth it in the end.

 

We'll see! It's been an interesting ride! :lol:

[TranquilMind]

Jennifer: No, we don't have to pay rent to anyone yet because the bank doesn't want it. If they accept rent, then we have to enter into a landlord/tenantrelationship and they sure as heck don't want to be responsible for the maintenance on this (or any house). The bank is just happy right now that the house is occupied and being maintained. They will be MORE happy when the house is off their books totally, obviously.

 

 

It's hard to quote something within a box so I hope I did this correctly. The trustee has two options; take over the Lease in the landlord's stead or repudiate/terminate the Lease. If it has been repudiated, you will be getting an eviction notice. You cannot simply stay and not pay anyone rent. You will need to be able to demonstrate that you continued to pay rent and fulfilled your obligations no matter who else is doing what. If the trustee won't accept it, get it in writing. The Trustee can simply terminate the Lease and does not need to let you stay.

 

This is a very messy situation you have and I'd be getting a real estate attorney, not relying on what the trustee is telling you orally (unless you have it in writing, obviously). The trustee can say that sure, you can stay, and then next week someone else is assigned the case and you will be evicted for failure to pay rent.

 

Maybe there is more you haven't said. I don't know. But you can't just stay and not pay, though it might go on for a short while until someone figures out what is going on.

 

The landlord may have done everything wrong, but you still have a contractual obligation to fulfill.

 

Someone there does not know what he/she is doing or they simply are moving slowly.

 

Bankruptcy and/or failure to maintain the premises is not a crime. The latter is a contractual breach, for which damages may be awarded in a civil action.

 

I no longer care if this woman ends up starving in a cardboard box. :glare:

 

 

That's pretty cruel. I hope you don't mean that.

 

There is a lot of information out there but here's a quick easy little blurb from here:

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that a tenant has been paying rent on time every month will not preserve their right to stay in their home. As banks and other lenders begin to take title to foreclosed homes, they are seeking to evict renters in record numbers according to a recent article in the New York Times.Because the lender’s mortgage lien on the property enjoys a higher status or priority than a lease, tenants can be evicted from apartments and homes even though they are current in their rent payments. The reason lenders do not want renters in a property is because of a perception that they will interfere with the resale of the home and that tenants are a maintenance headache. Even though a property might be worth less without paying tenants, the banks believe the properties can be resold much quicker.Sometimes as an incentive, the lender will offer a cash payment to the tenant to move out rather than pursue legal action. As with anything, it always good to get it in writing and make sure the person making the offer is authorized to so do. Get the money locked up.Also be aware than an eviction from a foreclosed property could affect your credit rating. Since it is a legal action in which you are a named defendant, the credit reporting agencies will pick up on any eviction judgment which could damage an otherwise sterling credit report.

Edited March 31, 2012 by TranquilMind

[Jennifer3141]

Tranquil, no offense but we have real attorneys working on this for us. That's where I'm going to continue to get our information. We're going to continue to not pay as long as everyone allows us because that's what we've been advised to do.

 

Your information seems a little outdated anyway, especially that last paragraph. There is new federal law in effect protecting tenants through this process because a lot of tenants were getting ripped off by the banks and/or their landlords in this process.

 

And in my state, our trustee had two other options. The law is perhaps different in your state.

[TranquilMind]

Tranquil, no offense but we have real attorneys working on this for us. That's where I'm going to continue to get our information. We're going to continue to not pay as long as everyone allows us because that's what we've been advised to do.

 

Your information seems a little outdated anyway, especially that last paragraph. There is new federal law in effect protecting tenants through this process because a lot of tenants were getting ripped off by the banks and/or their landlords in this process.

 

And in my state, our trustee had two other options. The law is perhaps different in your state.

Best of luck to you.