If you switched from AAS to LOE...

[stm4him]

I LOVE AAS (using 2 and 3 right now) and I'm doing AAR with my preschoolers and I love that too. Before AAS I used SWR for 1 1/2 years with my oldest so I am familiar with the Spalding method in Sanseri form. I am trying to follow the recommendations from Classical Conversations and I own WRTR but felt AAS/AAR was easier for me to implement. I had never heard of Logic of English before until tonight and now I am fascinated. The main reason I am fascinated is that I'm thinking if this can be done faster and also incorporate grammar maybe it would be a better use of my time with a large family than AAS/AAR which has so many levels. It would also save me money in the long run. These are my hesitations:

 

1. It doesn't look as "fun". Not that fun is my goal, but my oldest likes AAS way better than she did SWR. There are no stickers, crafts (AAR PL1), puppets (AAR PL1), jail, Silent E detective book, etc. which make it fun. It does have games which could definitely make it more fun. And sometimes I think it would be a relief not to have those crafts.

 

2. I am worried that it doesn't cover as many words as AAS/AAR and doesn't stay on one phonogram long enough the way AAS/AAR does.

 

3. It doesn't have cute readers like AAR does.

 

4. I can't decide if incorporating grammar is a plus or a minus. I think it is a plus but not totally sure on this.

 

5. I would prefer to start with a ZB type manuscript font and then move to a manuscript font like LOE has and then to cursive. Would this be a problem?

 

6. Do they have sentence dictation like AAS has? I think AAS' sentence dictation is a HUGE part of why it is successful for my kids.

 

7. What does it cover for composition?

 

8. Does it take longer until they can actually read than AAR?

 

My kids will do Essentials through CC in 4th-6th grade but I'm thinking this might be the perfect amount for them to cover from PreK-3rd grade in order to lay a great foundation in grammar, composition, handwriting, spelling, and reading (just adding copywork book) without having too much on my plate. But I have really liked the O-G letter tile aspects as well and I'm worried that if I jump ship on AAS/AAR and spend a bunch more money I'll regret it. Can anyone help me compare these two and give me some insight? I'd really appreciate it!

[stm4him]

Anyone? Buehler?

[stm4him]

This is like volleyball :-) But gotta give it another chance......Doesn't anyone use LOE after trying AAS?

[MyLittleBears]

I tried Spalding, then AAS follwed by SWR, until finally landing on LOE. I did like AAS but absolutely love LOE. I teach my oldest two together and my K-er joins us for the phonogram reviews and the games. The games in the game book are actually a lot of fun, so while the it is considered supplementry, I am finding that it really aids in bringing variety to the program. We also added the spelling journal and they get to earn stickers when they complete a section, just to keep it fun.

I think I does move a bit faster than AAS but it spirals so that there is plenty of opportunity for the child to review the phonograms taught. It is very complete and should get children reading and spelling well. It does not use separate readers but I believe it relies on the idea that after children learn and work with the phonograms, they are able to read. This reminds me of the way Spalding explains it. Yes, the program does include dictation and grammar. We are very classically minded so I agree with SWB philosophy on this. LOE teaches labeling parts of speech and not diagraming. We are lightly covering some of the LOE grammar and sometimes skip it altogether, since we also use FLL & R&S.

 

About the handwriting portion. LOE encourages learning to form letters in cursive, not any particular style or font. I used cursive first with 2 of my boys and GB italic with my oldest. It is very flexible.

Edited March 12, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[lindsrae]

I know LOE is fairly new, so there may not be a lot of people who have used it yet :) I just heard about myself a few weeks ago. Debating whether to stick with Phonics Road or go to LOE.

[MyLittleBears]

Another thing to mention. LOE has added 4 additional phonograms to the 70 used in the other Spalding, O-G "spin-off"programs. I also has a few more spelling rules. This has seemly elimated many more exceptions to the language.

 

hths.-sorry my link was not working. :tongue_smilie:

[lindsrae]

I tried Spalding, then AAS follwed by SWR, until finally landing on LOE. I did like AAS but absolutely love LOE. I teach my oldest two together and my K-er joins us for the phonogram reviews and the games. The games in the game book are actually a lot of fun, so while the it is considered supplementry, I am finding that it really aids in bringing variety to the program. We also added the spelling journal and they get to earn stickers when they complete a section, just to keep it fun.

I think I does move a bit faster than AAS but it spirals so that there is plenty of opportunity for the child to review the phonograms taught. It is very complete and should get children reading and spelling well. It does not use separate readers but I believe it relies on the idea that after children learn and work with the phonograms, they are able to read. This reminds me of the way Spalding explains it. Yes, the program does include dictation and grammar. We are very classically minded so I agree with SWB philosophy on this. LOE teaches labeling parts of speech and not diagraming. We are lightly covering some of the LOE grammar and sometimes skip it altogether, since we also use FLL & R&S.

 

About the handwriting portion. LOE encourages learning to form letters in cursive, not any particular style or font. I used cursive first with 2 of my boys and GB italic with my oldest. It is very flexible.

 

I hate to be a curriculum hopper, but I'm thinking Phonics Road might not be the right fit...what grade does LOE go to? I see you are using it with your 2nd and 5th graders. My first grader is using PR 1, which at this point is spelling, a little composition, and a little reading thrown in.

[MyLittleBears]

I hate to be a curriculum hopper, but I'm thinking Phonics Road might not be the right fit...what grade does LOE go to? I see you are using it with your 2nd and 5th graders. My first grader is using PR 1, which at this point is spelling, a little composition, and a little reading thrown in.

 

LOE does not have a grade level. It is designed for children and adults who have developed phonetic awareness and can form all of their letters. It gives the 104 tools that explain 98% of english words. So after the essentials curriculum, your students should be able to move into any word root program. I foulnd the scope and sequence on the LOE website to be very helpful. I'm hoping Denise Eide will write one to follow essentials. I would love to get in on the beta testing. She is in the process writing(possibly editing) a "pre"essentials curriculum for the younger crowd.

[stm4him]

I have been writing Denise non-stop the last 24 hours on the forum. Here is what I'm understanding about her future plans. First there will be a cursive book released in 10 days. There are two tracks to the program. The first is to use Essentials and adapt it to the various students you have, either working with them all together or separately as you choose. After that you would move to a word roots program and whatever spelling lists you choose in order to continue to analyze words using the phonograms and spelling rules. The other track will be a grade level type where one can use the books for the grade levels you need. This will be helpful for schools and people who want things more individualized and will also include reading comprehension. For me, I am very, very excited about the idea of teaching my K-3 together using Essentials! Here is my plan:

 

PreK- learn to recognize and write a-z in basic manuscript (about 1/week)

K- join us for lessons on a whiteboard

1st-3rd use manuscript workbook until ready to use cursive workbook

 

There are 40 lessons and 3 parts to each lesson for a total of 120. I am planning to teach one part per day starting when we start CC. Weekly we will also practice writing one letter in basic manuscript, D'Nealian, and cursive. We will start the week we start CC and teaching 5 lessons per week should get us halfway through by Thanksgiving and finish the second half during the winter/spring semester of CC. Whatever they are able to do from the lesson will be great and whatever they don't get will be fine, too b/c they will do it again the next year and can just start over with a new workbook. Day 1 is phonograms and exploring sounds, day 2 is spelling dictation, and day 3 is grammar, dictation, composition, and vocabulary development. Starting in 4th grade they will move on to CC's Essentials and will be analyzing the words given in the EEL guide from Spelling Plus but doing it in a LOE style, maybe in the spelling journal. While I work with the older ones on their CC Essentials/IEW homework the younger ones will do copywork from Pre-Scripts (CC's new copybooks) or Classically Cursive from VP as well as their LNST (Latin) and HA (Greek) page. While I work with the younger ones the older ones will do their EEL/IEW assignments.

 

How's that sound? I think this is exactly the kind of thing Leigh Bortins had in mind in The Core. Can't wait to order!!

 

P.S. I've used SWR, read most of TWRTR, and also done AAS.

[momofabcd]

I have been writing Denise non-stop the last 24 hours on the forum. Here is what I'm understanding about her future plans. First there will be a cursive book released in 10 days. There are two tracks to the program. The first is to use Essentials and adapt it to the various students you have, either working with them all together or separately as you choose. After that you would move to a word roots program and whatever spelling lists you choose in order to continue to analyze words using the phonograms and spelling rules. The other track will be a grade level type where one can use the books for the grade levels you need. This will be helpful for schools and people who want things more individualized and will also include reading comprehension. For me, I am very, very excited about the idea of teaching my K-3 together using Essentials! Here is my plan:

 

PreK- learn to recognize and write a-z in basic manuscript (about 1/week)

K- join us for lessons on a whiteboard

1st-3rd use manuscript workbook until ready to use cursive workbook

 

There are 40 lessons and 3 parts to each lesson for a total of 120. I am planning to teach one part per day starting when we start CC. Weekly we will also practice writing one letter in basic manuscript, D'Nealian, and cursive. We will start the week we start CC and teaching 5 lessons per week should get us halfway through by Thanksgiving and finish the second half during the winter/spring semester of CC. Whatever they are able to do from the lesson will be great and whatever they don't get will be fine, too b/c they will do it again the next year and can just start over with a new workbook. Day 1 is phonograms and exploring sounds, day 2 is spelling dictation, and day 3 is grammar, dictation, composition, and vocabulary development. Starting in 4th grade they will move on to CC's Essentials and will be analyzing the words given in the EEL guide from Spelling Plus but doing it in a LOE style, maybe in the spelling journal. While I work with the older ones on their CC Essentials/IEW homework the younger ones will do copywork from Pre-Scripts (CC's new copybooks) or Classically Cursive from VP as well as their LNST (Latin) and HA (Greek) page. While I work with the younger ones the older ones will do their EEL/IEW assignments.

 

How's that sound? I think this is exactly the kind of thing Leigh Bortins had in mind in The Core. Can't wait to order!!

 

P.S. I've used SWR, read most of TWRTR, and also done AAS.

 

I just want to make you aware that if you do grammar, dictation, composition and vocab. development on the same day, it will be a long session. There is so much meat to the program, that squeezing all that into 1 day for those young ones might be too much. Now, by the time they/he/she is/are in 3rd it, will be easy to do a full lesson in 1-2 days. I'm using LOE with my 1st grader, and the pace of 1 lesson/week (5 days) is working well and the workload seems just right. BTW, I've never loved a program, and I LOVE this one.

[MyLittleBears]

I have been writing Denise non-stop the last 24 hours on the forum. Here is what I'm understanding about her future plans. First there will be a cursive book released in 10 days. There are two tracks to the program. The first is to use Essentials and adapt it to the various students you have, either working with them all together or separately as you choose. After that you would move to a word roots program and whatever spelling lists you choose in order to continue to analyze words using the phonograms and spelling rules. The other track will be a grade level type where one can use the books for the grade levels you need. This will be helpful for schools and people who want things more individualized and will also include reading comprehension. For me, I am very, very excited about the idea of teaching my K-3 together using Essentials! Here is my plan:

 

PreK- learn to recognize and write a-z in basic manuscript (about 1/week)

K- join us for lessons on a whiteboard

1st-3rd use manuscript workbook until ready to use cursive workbook

 

There are 40 lessons and 3 parts to each lesson for a total of 120. I am planning to teach one part per day starting when we start CC. Weekly we will also practice writing one letter in basic manuscript, D'Nealian, and cursive. We will start the week we start CC and teaching 5 lessons per week should get us halfway through by Thanksgiving and finish the second half during the winter/spring semester of CC. Whatever they are able to do from the lesson will be great and whatever they don't get will be fine, too b/c they will do it again the next year and can just start over with a new workbook. Day 1 is phonograms and exploring sounds, day 2 is spelling dictation, and day 3 is grammar, dictation, composition, and vocabulary development. Starting in 4th grade they will move on to CC's Essentials and will be analyzing the words given in the EEL guide from Spelling Plus but doing it in a LOE style, maybe in the spelling journal. While I work with the older ones on their CC Essentials/IEW homework the younger ones will do copywork from Pre-Scripts (CC's new copybooks) or Classically Cursive from VP as well as their LNST (Latin) and HA (Greek) page. While I work with the younger ones the older ones will do their EEL/IEW assignments.

 

How's that sound? I think this is exactly the kind of thing Leigh Bortins had in mind in The Core. Can't wait to order!!

 

P.S. I've used SWR, read most of TWRTR, and also done AAS.

 

Wow! You've certainly come up with a plan. Sounds great! I like the Spelling Plus idea.:001_smile: I was going to use the extended Ayers list but I'm not too crazy about how it's arranged. The words are listed in order of difficulty. LOE does them in order of frequency, which makes more sense to me. But I guess after going through the essentials, they should be able to decode any word.

I recommend getting the LOE game book. It is a gem and adds A LOT to the program.

Edited March 12, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[stm4him]

I'll definitely get the game book but may use it more on our winter break than our regular lessons depending on time. We'll have to see how quickly I can get through the parts of the lessons with 3 kids. Sometimes a group setting causes problems so we'll have to work on this. We are working on the character trait of attentiveness so hopefully this will improve soon!

 

Can you tell me approximately how long each part of the lesson takes and whether you do the optional activities in blue or not?

 

Thanks!

[MyLittleBears]

I'll definitely get the game book but may use it more on our winter break than our regular lessons depending on time. We'll have to see how quickly I can get through the parts of the lessons with 3 kids. Sometimes a group setting causes problems so we'll have to work on this. We are working on the character trait of attentiveness so hopefully this will improve soon!

 

Can you tell me approximately how long each part of the lesson takes and whether you do the optional activities in blue or not?

 

Thanks!

 

We do flashcard review everyday(5minutes), followed by the lesson, which takes about 30-40 minutes. Since we are mostly skipping the grammar, we do most of the optional activities, including the spelling journal. I try not to make any part longer than this.(Love how flexible it is) We work approximately one lesson per week on a 4-day week. Also, when we write the phonogram that is being studied on the board in red so that it "pops" more. I also have them build the words in the spelling journals with the phonogram in red and the rest of the letters in regular pencil. This really helps my right-brain dominant dyslexics. If we add a game, we usually do this separately from the lesson and not everyday.

[abrightmom]

:bigear: LOVE the looks of this and I'm REALLY desirous of ordering and implementing LOE ASAP. :bigear:

[nukeswife]

Oh boy, I didn't need to know there was yet another option out there. Now my curiosity is peaked, so I must go check it out.

[momofabcd]

:bigear: LOVE the looks of this and I'm REALLY desirous of ordering and implementing LOE ASAP. :bigear:

 

I think you'll find everything you wanted PR to be in LOE. I know that's what I've discovered. My dd is learning so much, and retaining it. Did you know there are only 7 words in the English language that end in "oe" for the long O sound? Did you know only 9 words spell the long a sound with "ea"? This knowledge has helped my dd retain these words although they are not included on the spelling list. It's so logical in its presentation. You learn about a certain spelling rule and work with it on the first day. Then the second day you dictate the spelling list with some words based on that rule plus others based on previously learned rules. The third day you do grammar with phrases and sentences based on all spelling lists learned. Dictation includes all spelling and grammar rules learned, and composition helps dc learn to apply what's learned in a different way. Oh, there is a lot of vocabulary development, as well. I've found that the presentation of material has really helped my dd retain the information so much more than with PR. Also, you will still be able to choose your own literature. Hope this helps sway you, Katrina. :lol:

[mom&nana]

I've just heard of this program. We are using PR, and I'm interested in hearing how it compares to LOE.

 

We are doing ok with PR and overall I'm happy with it. I used PR 1 and 2 in the past with my older dd at an accelerated pace. We stopped because she found it so babyish. Now I'm using PR with my 7 year old (1st grader). We are on week 20 in PR 1. I found that we needed more reading practice, so I bought AAS Levels 1 and 2 and ETC. She doesn't care much for AAS and I think it's because it's pretty far behind where we are in PR. Another thing I have noticed with PR is that even though she knows all the phonograms well, and can spell many words with coaching, she doesn't seem to be carrying over the skills learned in PR. I think PR also lacks review.

 

Anyways, I'm just wondering what I'm missing not using LOE. :D How does the writing instruction and grammar compare? Does LOE do literature studies like PR?

[lindsrae]

I've just heard of this program. We are using PR, and I'm interested in hearing how it compares to LOE.

 

We are doing ok with PR and overall I'm happy with it. I used PR 1 and 2 in the past with my older dd at an accelerated pace. We stopped because she found it so babyish. Now I'm using PR with my 7 year old (1st grader). We are on week 20 in PR 1. I found that we needed more reading practice, so I bought AAS Levels 1 and 2 and ETC. She doesn't care much for AAS and I think it's because it's pretty far behind where we are in PR. Another thing I have noticed with PR is that even though she knows all the phonograms well, and can spell many words with coaching, she doesn't seem to be carrying over the skills learned in PR. I think PR also lacks review.

 

Anyways, I'm just wondering what I'm missing not using LOE. :D How does the writing instruction and grammar compare? Does LOE do literature studies like PR?

 

This is almost exactly how I feel about PR. I know Mrs. Beers says to review words they missed, review building codes, etc...but for the amount of time she spends spelling Every.Single.Word on the videos, she doesn't tell you HOW to review. (And there are some weeks where it seems like all you are doing is writing super long building codes and some weeks you are not. It is not an even amount of work.) One of the reasons I purchased PR in the first place was because it was supposed to be an all-in-one program, but it feel that I keep needing to supplement. I already use WWE1, and there is certainly not enough reading in level one to prepare kids for Little House in the Big Woods by level 2. It seems like PR is "almost" there...maybe LOE takes it to the next level of organization and logic.

[mom&nana]

This is almost exactly how I feel about PR. I know Mrs. Beers says to review words they missed, review building codes, etc...but for the amount of time she spends spelling Every.Single.Word on the videos, she doesn't tell you HOW to review. (And there are some weeks where it seems like all you are doing is writing super long building codes and some weeks you are not. It is not an even amount of work.) One of the reasons I purchased PR in the first place was because it was supposed to be an all-in-one program, but it feel that I keep needing to supplement. I already use WWE1, and there is certainly not enough reading in level one to prepare kids for Little House in the Big Woods by level 2. It seems like PR is "almost" there...maybe LOE takes it to the next level of organization and logic.

 

Yes, I think you are right. I also feel like the workload is uneven in PR. My dd really HATES the building codes. I'm not really sure how to review either. I know Mrs. Beers mentioned having your child read the previous spelling words. That would take up quite a bit of time though.

 

I have wondered, repeatedly just this week, if my dd is really going to be prepared enough to read Little House when we get to Level 2. I don't think she will be but I could be wrong.

 

I also wanted PR to be our only Language Arts program. I love the AIO approach and I do think that PR comes really close to being an amazing AIO. I think it's probably the best AIO program I have seen. But still I find myself needing to supplement. :tongue_smilie:

[stm4him]

momofabcd,

 

Do you do the grammar/dictation/composition/vocab section all in one day or do you split it up? I'd like to do that section all in one day but I don't want one day that is much longer than the others. I really, really think CC should carry this program and promote it. I think it looks awesome! I am counting the days until I can place my order but I'm wondering if I should wait for the cursive book to come out first. I'm not even planning to really use it much until the fall except with my little guy to do the intro work but I just can't wait to get my hands on it.....lol.

[abrightmom]

I think you'll find everything you wanted PR to be in LOE. I know that's what I've discovered. My dd is learning so much, and retaining it. Did you know there are only 7 words in the English language that end in "oe" for the long O sound? Did you know only 9 words spell the long a sound with "ea"? This knowledge has helped my dd retain these words although they are not included on the spelling list. It's so logical in its presentation. You learn about a certain spelling rule and work with it on the first day. Then the second day you dictate the spelling list with some words based on that rule plus others based on previously learned rules. The third day you do grammar with phrases and sentences based on all spelling lists learned. Dictation includes all spelling and grammar rules learned, and composition helps dc learn to apply what's learned in a different way. Oh, there is a lot of vocabulary development, as well. I've found that the presentation of material has really helped my dd retain the information so much more than with PR. Also, you will still be able to choose your own literature. Hope this helps sway you, Katrina. :lol:

Deena,

 

Thank-you for sharing that. :001_smile: Yes, PR was not "it" for me. LOE looks like what I've been longing for. I have been sharing it with my husband. It isn't cheap to get started and that is a hurdle, yes?!

 

Is Uncovering the Logic of English required reading before jumping into the Essentials program?

 

I read through some suggested schedules on her website and I'm gleaning that if my DD5 (nearly 6) starts with this program she won't use all of the workbook the first time through. Does this mean I'd buy her another workbook after we work through the first one but she'd study at a deeper level, adding grammar and more composition the second time through? Hmmmmm. I'm still confused but will keep reading and studying until I understand.

[momofabcd]

momofabcd,

 

Do you do the grammar/dictation/composition/vocab section all in one day or do you split it up? I'd like to do that section all in one day but I don't want one day that is much longer than the others. I really, really think CC should carry this program and promote it. I think it looks awesome! I am counting the days until I can place my order but I'm wondering if I should wait for the cursive book to come out first. I'm not even planning to really use it much until the fall except with my little guy to do the intro work but I just can't wait to get my hands on it.....lol.

 

No, I do the grammar on day 3 along with some of the extras. I do dictation on day 4 with a couple more extras and I do composition, vocabulary development, spelling test and phonogram quiz on day 5. Grammar days alone take the longest, sometimes close to 45 min. But, as I said, I'm doing extras. I make sure I use every worksheet each week which include the extras. I really think for young motor skills doing dictation and composition with vocab. development would be a lot of writing in one day. I think it would be a wonderful idea if CC would promote this. It's the best I've seen!!!

[momofabcd]

Deena,

 

Thank-you for sharing that. :001_smile: Yes, PR was not "it" for me. LOE looks like what I've been longing for. I have been sharing it with my husband. It isn't cheap to get started and that is a hurdle, yes?!

 

Is Uncovering the Logic of English required reading before jumping into the Essentials program?

 

I read through some suggested schedules on her website and I'm gleaning that if my DD5 (nearly 6) starts with this program she won't use all of the workbook the first time through. Does this mean I'd buy her another workbook after we work through the first one but she'd study at a deeper level, adding grammar and more composition the second time through? Hmmmmm. I'm still confused but will keep reading and studying until I understand.

 

LOE is exactly what I was longing for ;)

You don't need Uncovering the Logic of English. I did buy the book before I bought the curriculum, but I haven't needed it at all to implement the essentials program. It does have really good information in it, but it's not an essential component for success. LOE has really helped me see the big picture that neither SWR nor PR gave me.

 

Depending if your dd is reading and writing fairly well by the time you begin, you have two choices. You slow the pace to 1 lesson every two weeks and finish in 80 weeks. You would only need 1 workbook. Or you could do one lesson per week and finish in 40 weeks. If you felt like your dd needed to go through it again, then yes, you would need another workbook. I'll have to think this through with my up-coming Ker. She'll be a young 5, June b-day. It may be a good idea to go through twice instead of slowing the pace.

[abrightmom]

LOE is exactly what I was longing for ;)

You don't need Uncovering the Logic of English. I did buy the book before I bought the curriculum, but I haven't needed it at all to implement the essentials program. It does have really good information in it, but it's not an essential component for success. LOE has really helped me see the big picture that neither SWR nor PR gave me.

 

Depending if your dd is reading and writing fairly well by the time you begin, you have two choices. You slow the pace to 1 lesson every two weeks and finish in 80 weeks. You would only need 1 workbook. Or you could do one lesson per week and finish in 40 weeks. If you felt like your dd needed to go through it again, then yes, you would need another workbook. I'll have to think this through with my up-coming Ker. She'll be a young 5, June b-day. It may be a good idea to go through twice instead of slowing the pace.

 

Thanks Deena. :001_smile: Still thinking here. I posted my questions on the LOE forum. :001_smile:

[MyLittleBears]

LOE is exactly what I was longing for ;)

You don't need Uncovering the Logic of English. I did buy the book before I bought the curriculum, but I haven't needed it at all to implement the essentials program. It does have really good information in it, but it's not an essential component for success. LOE has really helped me see the big picture that neither SWR nor PR gave me.

 

Depending if your dd is reading and writing fairly well by the time you begin, you have two choices. You slow the pace to 1 lesson every two weeks and finish in 80 weeks. You would only need 1 workbook. Or you could do one lesson per week and finish in 40 weeks. If you felt like your dd needed to go through it again, then yes, you would need another workbook. I'll have to think this through with my up-coming Ker. She'll be a young 5, June b-day. It may be a good idea to go through twice instead of slowing the pace.

 

This is what we are currently doing. I am using the program with all 3 of my dc. My kindergartener only joins us for our phonogram reviews and games, and is within earshot of the lesson. It is amazing how much he has picked up already and will frequently rattle off some of the spelling rules. We also go through these rules as they apply to his reading lessons. I am currently in the process of teaching him cursive and plan to run him through the lessons a 2nd time once his motor skills catch up. I think it would be possible to use letter tiles for this age and move to writing, the second time around. There is a very important connection made when writing out the phonograms so writing, at least when they are able, should be a requirement. My older two use their workbooks, and since the older one reads well but spells poorly, I have him let his younger brother do the reading portion. They can also help each other with the spelling journal.

[abrightmom]

This is what we are currently doing. I am using the program with all 3 of my dc. My kindergartener only joins us for our phonogram reviews and games, and is within earshot of the lesson. It is amazing how much he has picked up already and will frequently rattle off some of the spelling rules. We also go through these rules as they apply to his reading lessons. I am currently in the process of teaching him cursive and plan to run him through the lessons a 2nd time once his motor skills catch up. I think it would be possible to use letter tiles for this age and move to writing, the second time around. There is a very important connection made when writing out the phonograms so writing, at least when they are able, should be a requirement. My older two use their workbooks, and since the older one reads well but spells poorly, I have him let his younger brother do the reading portion. They can also help each other with the spelling journal.

 

So, your K'er isn't "officially" working through LOE at this time but is learning the phonograms to get ready. When will you start your K'er with his own workbook? It doesn't sound like you're using one with him but I may have misunderstood that :D.

 

Are you using LOE to teach him to read? (Again, sorry if these are obvious, silly questions.)

 

Do your older children use a workbook and a journal? Are both important?

[MyLittleBears]

So, your K'er isn't "officially" working through LOE at this time but is learning the phonograms to get ready. When will you start your K'er with his own workbook? It doesn't sound like you're using one with him but I may have misunderstood that :D.

 

Are you using LOE to teach him to read? (Again, sorry if these are obvious, silly questions.)

 

Do your older children use a workbook and a journal? Are both important?

 

Yes, he is not "officially" doing the program but just kind of tagging along. He is learning all the phonograms and spelling rules alongside his brothers. We started using TRL last year when he was 4. LOE was not out yet and he really loves this book and does not want to give it up, so I want to continue with it to it's completion. What I do is apply the phonograms and spelling rules to this book so he can learn to read LOE style. Next year, I do plan to have him use the LOE workbook but may have him do it on a white board if his motor skills have not caught up.

 

The older two do the workbook and the spelling journal. I include the journal because I think it really adds to their "exposure" to phonogram. I have taken some of the "right-brain" methods from Dianne Craft and have them make the phonogram part in their journal in red pencil and the rest in regular pencil to make the program more visual for them. So, while the spelling journal in not neccesary, the benefit of doing it this way has been great for us. I also have them personalize it by allowing them to decorate it with stickers. After section is complete, they get to pick a lego sticker to put on that particular section. Since they adore lego, this is a better motivator that chocolate. :lol:

I also plan to have them "look up" words that they ask me to spell in their journal. I'm not sure how well this will work, but my hope is that this will give them ownership over their own spelling.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[stm4him]

I'm planning to use it like CC's Essentials in that my kids will go through it each year from K-3 and each year they will understand and be able to do a little more. In K they will just sort of tag along and use a whiteboard. As long as they are in earshot they will pick up a lot. In 1st they will get a workbook but won't necessarily do every part of every page....just what is appropriate for their age and ability. The next year they get a new workbook and I will expect more from them. In 4th grade they will do CC's Essentials program so they would stop LOE. But they will continue to use what they've learned to apply it to the words given from Spelling Plus in the Essentials guide which is what Leigh Bortins intended anyway from my understanding. The workbooks are only $25 and I think that is fine to spend each year for a new start. In this way they will go through like 3 or 4 times just as they do in CC's Essentials program and by the end of that should have a thorough understanding and a solid foundation! I will also work with my preschoolers for a few minutes a day learning the a-z phonograms and how to write them, but probably just in basic manuscript as I personally think that is easier. But I'm planning to have them use the sandpaper letters and have a chance to work on learning cursive and D'Nealian from the beginning and let them work towards cursive as quickly as they can.

[abrightmom]

Yes, he is not "officially" doing the program but just kind of tagging along. He is learning all the phonograms and spelling rules alongside his brothers. We started using TRL last year when he was 4. LOE was not out yet and he really loves this book and does not want to give it up, so I want to continue with it to it's completion. What I do is apply the phonograms and spelling rules to this book so he can learn to read LOE style. Next year, I do plan to have him use the LOE workbook but may have him do it on a white board if his motor skills have not caught up.

 

The older two do the workbook and the spelling journal. I include the journal because I think it really adds to their "exposure" to phonogram. I have taken some of the "right-brain" methods from Dianne Craft and have them make the phonogram part in their journal in red pencil and the rest in regular pencil to make the program more visual for them. So, while the spelling journal in not neccesary, the benefit of doing it this way has been great for us. I also have them personalize it by allowing them to decorate it with stickers. After section is complete, they get to pick a lego sticker to put on that particular section. Since they adore lego, this is a better motivator that chocolate. :lol:

I also plan to have them "look up" words that they ask me to spell in their journal. I'm not sure how well this will work, but my hope is that this will give them ownership over their own spelling.

THANKS for clarifying how you are using LOE. My daughter is also using The Reading Lesson and she loves it. I love the idea of applying the phonograms and rules from LOE to TRL and jumping into LOE "in full" when the K'er is a tad older.

I'm planning to use it like CC's Essentials in that my kids will go through it each year from K-3 and each year they will understand and be able to do a little more. In K they will just sort of tag along and use a whiteboard. As long as they are in earshot they will pick up a lot. In 1st they will get a workbook but won't necessarily do every part of every page....just what is appropriate for their age and ability. The next year they get a new workbook and I will expect more from them. In 4th grade they will do CC's Essentials program so they would stop LOE. But they will continue to use what they've learned to apply it to the words given from Spelling Plus in the Essentials guide which is what Leigh Bortins intended anyway from my understanding. The workbooks are only $25 and I think that is fine to spend each year for a new start. In this way they will go through like 3 or 4 times just as they do in CC's Essentials program and by the end of that should have a thorough understanding and a solid foundation! I will also work with my preschoolers for a few minutes a day learning the a-z phonograms and how to write them, but probably just in basic manuscript as I personally think that is easier. But I'm planning to have them use the sandpaper letters and have a chance to work on learning cursive and D'Nealian from the beginning and let them work towards cursive as quickly as they can.

 

This is a very intriguing idea. :001_smile:

[Heather in VA]

Katrina...

 

I just wanted to make sure you knew that you can not buy Essentials unless you sign up for Classical Conversations. I don't know if that is your plan down the road but you seemed interested in the LOE followed by Essentials plan so I wanted to make sure you knew that.

 

Heather

[abrightmom]

Katrina...

 

I just wanted to make sure you knew that you can not buy Essentials unless you sign up for Classical Conversations. I don't know if that is your plan down the road but you seemed interested in the LOE followed by Essentials plan so I wanted to make sure you knew that.

 

Heather

 

Thanks Heather.

 

Yes, I understand that. I was referring to her idea of cycling through LOE each year and going deeper each time those early years. :D

 

I'd love to try CC for a year though. We have a group that meets about 1 mile from our home....

[Aloha2U]

Hello ladies, I have a quick question for you. I have a dear friend who is looking into and ready to buy SWR, but I think the LOE Essentials Curriculum may be a better route for her since she is due very soon. She'll have a 6.5 yo, 4 yo, , 2 yo, and a newborn. Those of you who are using or will use LOE, are you going to incorporate FLL (and WWE) with it, or do you find that LOE has enough grammar already and a supplement is not necessary?

 

Thanks! :)

[MyLittleBears]

Hello ladies, I have a quick question for you. I have a dear friend who is looking into and ready to buy SWR, but I think the LOE Essentials Curriculum may be a better route for her since she is due very soon. She'll have a 6.5 yo, 4 yo, , 2 yo, and a newborn. Those of you who are using or will use LOE, are you going to incorporate FLL (and WWE) with it, or do you find that LOE has enough grammar already and a supplement is not necessary?

 

Thanks! :)

 

We use FFL& WWE, specifically because we plan to follow the classical model. LOE uses labeling for parts of speech, which would be completely different from diagramming. As you know, this is one of the basics in the LA classical model. We lightly do LOE grammar as a supplement but never feel guilty if we skip it. I think LOE grammar would be plenty if she plans to use it also her only LA. Yes, I would say that LOE is easier to get started with right away than SWR.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[stm4him]

That's why I love the idea of using LOE Essentials with the grammar and following it up with the grammar in CC's Essentials which includes diagramming. I wanted to do FLL and WWE/WWS but that again would have different kids on different levels which adds up. I feel like with the grammar in LOE they will get a good solid foundation and enter Essentials ready to take on the next level, including diagramming.

 

How do you think the grammar compares with Shurley?

 

The one thing I'm a tad bit concerned about is not covering things like letter writing or journal writing, but I'm not that worried b/c those things are very simple to teach and I could just do it myself without a program. I'm pretty sure they'll run across assignments that will have those type of activities in their VP Lit guides, but I could be wrong about that.

 

I was going to do Memoria Press packages during the summers but so far I can't see a way to fit that in and moms keep telling me I'd be crazy for trying. This summer for sure I won't be able to do that b/c I have a list of other things I want to do/finish. So for now I'm going to stick with a CC/VP combo with some Apologia, Artistic Pursuits, What We Believe, and SOTW in the spring/summers after CC and see how that goes. Out of that list at a minimum I want to finish our Apologia Anatomy this summer. But more on that in a different post.......

[didadeewiththree]

:bigear:

[Abeth78]

:bigear: too.

 

My son starts K in fall. He is so ready to start writing and reading. We have been in CC the second half of the year. I was considering AAR but I may have to look at this program first as at this point we plan to follow CC all the way up to essentials.

[atozmom]

Ok, I see that this is going to be at our convention this May and I am intrigued. Like I needed another curriculum to look into. :lol:

[stm4him]

It definitely wasn't my plan to look into something else but I did and was immediately intrigued and then over the next 24 hours it changed my whole perspective on how to teach language arts. It made what seemed truly impractical a completely practical plan (I think.....we'll have to do it to find out but at least one other mom on here said that's what she's doing and its working!). I'm going to order the teacher's manual, game book, and phonogram cards this week and order the rest closer to the start of the school year. I just want to get my 5 year old prepared. LOE isn't coming to any of the conventions I attend so I'll just have to order and hope I'm right!

[MyLittleBears]

It definitely wasn't my plan to look into something else but I did and was immediately intrigued and then over the next 24 hours it changed my whole perspective on how to teach language arts. It made what seemed truly impractical a completely practical plan (I think.....we'll have to do it to find out but at least one other mom on here said that's what she's doing and its working!). I'm going to order the teacher's manual, game book, and phonogram cards this week and order the rest closer to the start of the school year. I just want to get my 5 year old prepared. LOE isn't coming to any of the conventions I attend so I'll just have to order and hope I'm right!

 

Funny how Denise Eide has that effect! I felt as if a light bulb went off after watching her intro video! :D

 

 

I've never really looked into Shirley, so I can't really compare. We chose to do WWE because I want to teach my dc expository writing. Most programs don't really cover it and do some sort of creative writing, which is not the same thing. I guess is also depends on what you want to teach. But as SWB says, you either have the creative inclination or you don't. Trying to get a non-creative writing child to do creative writing is kind of like trying change an introvert into an extrovert, so to speak. She considers journaling, creative writing. Children that have a creative inclination often "show it" and it is easier to develop it with them and they should be allowed to do it, but everyone needs to learn expository writing for higher level education. Her mp3s on writing are very interesting and give a lot of insight on this that does not seem to come across the same way as on the pages of TWTM.

 

Good luck with Artistic Pursuits! That's the one program we never seem to get to in this house! Is it alright to ignore the guilt on this one?

Edited March 14, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[Aloha2U]

I received a bit of clarity on LOE after speaking with a rep this morning, so I'd thought I'd share and give you all an update on the dilemma of my dear friend trying to decide between investing in SWR or LOE (which would be easier to begin implementation with a newborn and two other littles underfoot) for the long haul. As you may already know, the Essentials Curriculum has 40 lessons that can be completed in 40 weeks (1 lesson per week) or 80 weeks (draw out the lessons for two weeks each). That being said and as a pp mentioned, if you completed all 40 lessons in one year, you could repeat another year of LOE by doing all 40 lessons again, but more in-depth with the extras that you may not have been able to accomplish in the first year - due to the child's ability/readiness level. This is where the dilemma lies.

 

Though I do think LOE may be an easier program to start right away, it's really only a 1-2 year program whereas SWR can be used for 6 years (grades K-5). The LOE rep did say that there's plans for a follow-up book, but when you're trying to decide on one right now that will be used for the long haul, LOE tends to loose its immediate appeal. Not forgetting to mention, of course, that there are those of us around her who are already doing SWR, so that's another pro leaning her towards it. Perhaps one could transition easily from LOE to SWR (or WRTR), but the cost and hassle may not be worth it.

 

Just thought I'd throw this out there for anyone interested. :)

[stm4him]

I really do like that talk by SWB and agree with her on most of it but I would disagree about journal writing a bit. Not that I feel journal writing is always necessary but it isn't always creative in that you don't always have to write how you feel. Simply stating the facts of what happened in a day is not really creative in nature but factual. I think it can be very useful for many things and much of what we know in history is based on journal writing about events that took place. Letter writing is another thing I mentioned. When I was comparing it to Shirley I really meant the grammar. I'm sorry I didn't clarify. We did half a year of WWE and FLL. I could be wrong but I'm thinking they will cover a lot of the same things b/c grammar is covered (minus diagramming which I will be doing with my kids in 4th-6th) and dictation is covered. Narration we often do in literature in our house and copywork we do separately so I don't need that as part of the program. Now I forgot if I had anything else to add......I've got the afternoon sleepies I think......

[stm4him]

I think that is the beauty of LOE, actually. Who doesn't want a program that can cover more in less time? My understanding is all that won't be covered are the following:

 

-reading comprehension

-word roots (which they're coming out with)

-grade level lists

 

Reading comprehension is often covered by other things like literature guides in homeschools so she doesn't really need that. By the time she needed the word roots program it would probably be out or she can use English From the Roots Up which is what SWR promotes as well. Grade level lists she can get from many places very cheaply like Spelling Plus or even the Wise Guide. But what they do with those lists is analyze them using what they've learned from LOE. To me that sounds much more simple than SWR and all it entails. LOE is meant to be covered in 1-2 years but it could be done however one wants. For example, one could do it the first time through in 2 years and then a second time through in one year hitting only what was missed before. I plan to fly through most of it in one year and come back around to it again the following year and hitting the extras in the summer or during breaks or as we have time, etc. because I want to line up with our CC schedule. I had planned to do part 3 all in one day and that may not be realistic so I may have to do some shifting but I think each lesson could be done in 3 days. For older kids she even says you can do a lesson a day and complete it in 8 weeks! So I think it is super flexible! Much more than SWR IMHO.....

[MyLittleBears]

I think that is the beauty of LOE, actually. Who doesn't want a program that can cover more in less time? My understanding is all that won't be covered are the following:

 

-reading comprehension

-word roots (which they're coming out with)

-grade level lists

 

Reading comprehension is often covered by other things like literature guides in homeschools so she doesn't really need that. By the time she needed the word roots program it would probably be out or she can use English From the Roots Up which is what SWR promotes as well. Grade level lists she can get from many places very cheaply like Spelling Plus or even the Wise Guide. But what they do with those lists is analyze them using what they've learned from LOE. To me that sounds much more simple than SWR and all it entails. LOE is meant to be covered in 1-2 years but it could be done however one wants. For example, one could do it the first time through in 2 years and then a second time through in one year hitting only what was missed before. I plan to fly through most of it in one year and come back around to it again the following year and hitting the extras in the summer or during breaks or as we have time, etc. because I want to line up with our CC schedule. I had planned to do part 3 all in one day and that may not be realistic so I may have to do some shifting but I think each lesson could be done in 3 days. For older kids she even says you can do a lesson a day and complete it in 8 weeks! So I think it is super flexible! Much more than SWR IMHO.....

 

:iagree:.... with pretty much everything stated. Easy to analazye words lists after learning everything, rather than simultaneously. Also, teacher training is included. Just pick up and go. :D

[Aloha2U]

I think that is the beauty of LOE, actually. Who doesn't want a program that can cover more in less time? My understanding is all that won't be covered are the following:

 

-reading comprehension

-word roots (which they're coming out with)

-grade level lists

 

Reading comprehension is often covered by other things like literature guides in homeschools so she doesn't really need that. By the time she needed the word roots program it would probably be out or she can use English From the Roots Up which is what SWR promotes as well. Grade level lists she can get from many places very cheaply like Spelling Plus or even the Wise Guide. But what they do with those lists is analyze them using what they've learned from LOE. To me that sounds much more simple than SWR and all it entails. LOE is meant to be covered in 1-2 years but it could be done however one wants. For example, one could do it the first time through in 2 years and then a second time through in one year hitting only what was missed before. I plan to fly through most of it in one year and come back around to it again the following year and hitting the extras in the summer or during breaks or as we have time, etc. because I want to line up with our CC schedule. I had planned to do part 3 all in one day and that may not be realistic so I may have to do some shifting but I think each lesson could be done in 3 days. For older kids she even says you can do a lesson a day and complete it in 8 weeks! So I think it is super flexible! Much more than SWR IMHO.....

 

I appreciate your feedback. I've just shared your thoughts with her in the hopes that they will help with the decision making process. Thank you!

[lorisuewho]

If one is not planning to use the grammar portion of LOE, what would be the advantage of this over something like AAS? I'm really confused about LOE obviously!

[StephanieF]

Is one advantage that it progresses quite quickly? Was it designed for approx 8 yr olds to catch up on reading/spelling? Obviously if you have little ones then that it isn't an advantage!

 

For me personally I think having one book with everything I have to do is an advantage plus it is quite straightforward and simple, just a TM, workbook and cards if you want them.

 

I could be wrong though, I have just been reading through their site.

Stephanie

[PollyOR]

I've skimmed the thread and haven't seen this mentioned...

 

I noticed there are some differences between the sounds used with the basic phonograms in LOE and AAS. My struggling reader (newly turned 10yo) has been using AAS for a couple of months and I'm worried that switching to LOE might confuse her.

 

If you've switched from one program to another, what was your experience?

 

Thanks!

[atozmom]

I've skimmed the thread and haven't seen this mentioned...

 

I noticed there are some differences between the sounds used with the basic phonograms in LOE and AAS. My struggling reader (newly turned 10yo) has been using AAS for a couple of months and I'm worried that switching to LOE might confuse her.

 

If you've switched from one program to another, what was your experience?

 

Thanks!

:bigear: Would love to hear about this as well.

[momofabcd]

:bigear: Would love to hear about this as well.

 

It's really not that big of a difference. We came from PR, and my dd hasn't had any confusion at all. Denise adds an extra sound to i like onion. She added an extra sound to u "oo" like tube. There are 9 reasons for silent final e instead of 5. And there are, I think two extra basic phonograms taught, cei, bu, gu. I don't have my manual right here with me, so this is off the top of my head.

[StephanieF]

Does it cover as much as AAS? AAS has 7 levels now, doesLOE cover all this?

StephanIe