Is HOD Bigger enough for a 5th grader?

[beccad777]

I am considering using HOD BHFHG next year for my 5th and 3rd grader. My 5th really places in Preparing, but my dd (3rd) really struggles with her reading and could not do any of her assignments independently (although she places in Preparing in every other category). So, the HOD message board says to use Bigger, but I am so hesitant. :confused:

 

My oldest has not really had any world history, but my dd has not had any American History. When I look at the samples, it looks like Bigger is written to a 2nd grader so I wonder if it can be used for a 5th grader (who is admittedly behind especially in writing). It just seems like a stretch.

 

Using 2 guides would be better, but I also have a 1st grader and a prek and a baby. I don't know if I could realistically run 2 guides and teach the little ones too. It is also a lot of money to buy 2 separate programs. I am making myself crazy here. :willy_nilly:

 

I am currently using MFW ECC, and it is OK, but I don't love it. I like the look of HOD. How it is all spelled out and helps me make the connections in the lessons. It just looks more conducive to the way I think. :001_smile: But, I am drawn to MFW CTC too. I like the books used and that it teaches the Bible along with ancient history so you get a better feel of what is going on. And I can combine them with no problem.

 

I am just so torn. Any thoughts or words of advice from the Hive? I would greatly appreciate it!

[mytwomonkeys]

yes, it's enough if you buy the extension pack.:) i would not buy the extra science book in the extension pack though, it was a real snoozer imho.

[beccad777]

Thanks for your reply! :001_smile:

[Michelle My Bell]

I am considering using HOD BHFHG next year for my 5th and 3rd grader. My 5th really places in Preparing, but my dd (3rd) really struggles with her reading and could not do any of her assignments independently (although she places in Preparing in every other category). So, the HOD message board says to use Bigger, but I am so hesitant. :confused:

 

My oldest has not really had any world history, but my dd has not had any American History. When I look at the samples, it looks like Bigger is written to a 2nd grader so I wonder if it can be used for a 5th grader (who is admittedly behind especially in writing). It just seems like a stretch.

 

Using 2 guides would be better, but I also have a 1st grader and a prek and a baby. I don't know if I could realistically run 2 guides and teach the little ones too. It is also a lot of money to buy 2 separate programs. I am making myself crazy here. :willy_nilly:

 

I am currently using MFW ECC, and it is OK, but I don't love it. I like the look of HOD. How it is all spelled out and helps me make the connections in the lessons. It just looks more conducive to the way I think. :001_smile: But, I am drawn to MFW CTC too. I like the books used and that it teaches the Bible along with ancient history so you get a better feel of what is going on. And I can combine them with no problem.

 

I am just so torn. Any thoughts or words of advice from the Hive? I would greatly appreciate it!

 

I just started Preparing this week with my 3rd grade struggling reader daughter and my 5th grade daughter. There are not a lot of independent reading in this program and honestly I think your kids would be fine in Preparing if that is what you want to do. It is an AMAZING program. The scriptures are strongly woven into the program, especially in Preparing and CTC which my older dds used a few years ago. We have been so blessed this week.

 

I want to say that with all the copywork that is in Preparing, my daughter improved in her reading skills this week alone. We have also been working through Reading Pathways to improve her fluency which has worked wonders. Finally, I have her read to me everyday from books slightly above her reading abilities. She is reading to me from the Little House books right now. She couldn't do that at the beginning of the school year.

 

By the way, I have used MFW in years past and HOD is way better in my opinion. I found us getting bored in MFW but that doesn't happen with HOD. My older daughter has used HOD for the last 3 years.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Michelle My Bell

[Tidbits of Learning]

I would go with Preparing as well. I think the only box that is independent is science in Preparing. I am doing Bigger with my 3rd grade son. I think Bigger is a great 3rd grade. In your shoes, I would combine in Preparing and try it as written. I did not see a big jump from Bigger to Preparing.

I know I will probably get some backlash for this, but I don't think the extensions add a lot to the programs. It is more reading. Yes, it is higher reading...you have to set a schedule though for them to orally narrate, written narrate, or make a notebooking page for the extensions. All that it gives you in the index is a general guideline of doing those things 1 time each a unit and a reading assignment list by unit for the extension books.

It basically just gives me something to send my older dd off to do while my younger dd is finishing her independent work. I consider the extensions a time filler.

[Michelle My Bell]

I would go with Preparing as well. I think the only box that is independent is science in Preparing. I am doing Bigger with my 3rd grade son. I think Bigger is a great 3rd grade. In your shoes, I would combine in Preparing and try it as written. I did not see a big jump from Bigger to Preparing.

I know I will probably get some backlash for this, but I don't think the extensions add a lot to the programs. It is more reading. Yes, it is higher reading...you have to set a schedule though for them to orally narrate, written narrate, or make a notebooking page for the extensions. All that it gives you in the index is a general guideline of doing those things 1 time each a unit and a reading assignment list by unit for the extension books.

It basically just gives me something to send my older dd off to do while my younger dd is finishing her independent work. I consider the extensions a time filler.

 

You know, I kinda felt the same way. I have other subjects that my older daughter is doing and I don't need to add more reading on the same subjects. I may give her the books if I can get them from the library and put them in her bedside reading basket, but I don't plan to assign them.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I used Bigger this year with a 5th grader. He reads the extension books for 'lit' and the extra history readings. He does our own science in addition to the science in Bigger. I have him do a written narration a couple times a week (he is not a writer so this is plenty for him). He's learned much more than my 2nd grader. I really think Bigger is better a bit older than recommended. The understanding is much deeper. Oh, and we CLE LA and Math so that didn't figure into our plan.

[oneddmanybooks]

I am currently using Bigger Hearts for my advanced 2nd grader. I would NOT recommend Bigger for 5th grade unless there was an unusual circumstance involved.

 

I think Preparing would be great for your family!

[raceNzanesmom]

yes, it's enough if you buy the extension pack.:)

 

You could add the extension pack, another science or writing, a book basket of books, etc. You could even just start with it as written and add if/when needed. Are you doing DITHoR or another reading program for your 5th grader? That will fill it out too. Plus, doing english and math at their individual levels will fill the 5th grader's schedule.

 

My humble .02, I wouldn't put a struggling 3rd grader in Preparing. Doing that will cause her to always be behind, you trying to make it work. That's bound to fail at some point.

 

Best wishes! We love HOD. I hope your family will too.

[Michelle My Bell]

You could add the extension pack, another science or writing, a book basket of books, etc. You could even just start with it as written and add if/when needed. Are you doing DITHoR or another reading program for your 5th grader? That will fill it out too. Plus, doing english and math at their individual levels will fill the 5th grader's schedule.

 

My humble .02, I wouldn't put a struggling 3rd grader in Preparing. Doing that will cause her to always be behind, you trying to make it work. That's bound to fail at some point.

 

Best wishes! We love HOD. I hope your family will too.

 

I think by the time you add all that, you might as well do a different program. It defeats the purpose of having it planned out for you. My advice is to keep the level high and modify slightly for your 3rd grader. She will have no trouble with most of the subjects as there is very little independent reading. Don't drag down your 5th grader, raise up your 3rd grader. HOD will build these skills into her throughout the year and by the end of the year she will have bloomed.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I think by the time you add all that, you might as well do a different program. It defeats the purpose of having it planned out for you. My advice is to keep the level high and modify slightly for your 3rd grader. She will have no trouble with most of the subjects as there is very little independent reading. Don't drag down your 5th grader, raise up your 3rd grader. HOD will build these skills into her throughout the year and by the end of the year she will have bloomed.

 

I did this last year with my 3 oldest and it was so not worth it to have them all combined. I spent all my time making it work for my older children and I didn't get the time that my younger really needed to work on his skills either. I honestly don't think Preparing is that much of a jump from Bigger at all. It is pretty much the same set up in my opinion except science is an independent box. I bought Preparing originally for my dd10 this year and had to exchange it b/c it was not challenging for her at all. So I wouldn't recommend Bigger even with extensions for a 5th grader. I had the option this year to combine all of mine in Bigger with extensions and I can tell you it would have never challenged my 5th grader.

[raceNzanesmom]

I think by the time you add all that, you might as well do a different program. It defeats the purpose of having it planned out for you. My advice is to keep the level high and modify slightly for your 3rd grader. She will have no trouble with most of the subjects as there is very little independent reading. Don't drag down your 5th grader, raise up your 3rd grader. HOD will build these skills into her throughout the year and by the end of the year she will have bloomed.

 

That isn't HOD philosophy. The younger needs to be placed and more added for the olders. And, she wouldn't need to add much. I said or for adding, not to add it all.

 

One needs to also consider future years. IF the struggling 3rd grader makes it through Preparing, what happens in CtC or RtR. She's always going to struggle or mom will have to keep bringing it down. I have a struggling 2nd grader and there is NO way I would place him in Preparing next year. I may even stretch Bigger over a year and a half.

 

My .02, place them both in Bigger or do two guides.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I am considering using HOD BHFHG next year for my 5th and 3rd grader. My 5th really places in Preparing, but my dd (3rd) really struggles with her reading and could not do any of her assignments independently (although she places in Preparing in every other category).

If you look at the placement chart and can circle more in PHFHG than in BHFHG for your 3rd grader, then they place in PHFHG not BHFHG. Is this the case?

When you say struggling reader, what do you mean? Would your 3rd grader still be reading books that are emerging readers (the books that have 1, 2, 3, and 4 in the corner) or can your 3rd grader read chapter books? I would say it is hard to determine what place your 3rd grader really may need without first knowing what you mean by struggling reader.

Edited March 10, 2012 by OpenMinded

[imhim]

How do you when where the place the children? I am interested in their reading program, dithor, but don't know what to choose for my good/great 3rd grade reader? Is there a test online??

[Michelle My Bell]

That isn't HOD philosophy. The younger needs to be placed and more added for the olders. And, she wouldn't need to add much. I said or for adding, not to add it all.

 

One needs to also consider future years. IF the struggling 3rd grader makes it through Preparing, what happens in CtC or RtR. She's always going to struggle or mom will have to keep bringing it down. I have a struggling 2nd grader and there is NO way I would place him in Preparing next year. I may even stretch Bigger over a year and a half.

 

My .02, place them both in Bigger or do two guides.

 

 

I can see your point. I just think pulling the 5th grader down to bigger is a big pull downward. If the child is really that behind, I think they should do 2 different guides. My thoughts are that challenging a child is what helps them to learn. I am not talking about frustrating them, just challenging the 3rd grader. The 5th grader can help by modeling what needs to be done in places where the 3rd grader lacks the skills. As the year progresses, the 3rd grader should be able to begin to do those skills.

[MamaHappy]

That isn't HOD philosophy. The younger needs to be placed and more added for the olders. And, she wouldn't need to add much. I said or for adding, not to add it all.

 

One needs to also consider future years. IF the struggling 3rd grader makes it through Preparing, what happens in CtC or RtR. She's always going to struggle or mom will have to keep bringing it down. I have a struggling 2nd grader and there is NO way I would place him in Preparing next year. I may even stretch Bigger over a year and a half.

 

My .02, place them both in Bigger or do two guides.

 

I completely agree with this. There is NO way I'd place a struggling 3rd grader in Preparing. I would put them both in Bigger. As long as your 5th grader has 3R's on his/her level and you add in the extensions for history, I think Bigger is just fine for a 5th grader. The ideal situation would be to have them in their own guide, but you would need to be realistic about how much time and energy you have for running two guides. I've done it and it's not easy. :)

[mytwomonkeys]

I completely agree with this. There is NO way I'd place a struggling 3rd grader in Preparing. I would put them both in Bigger. As long as your 5th grader has 3R's on his/her level and you add in the extensions for history, I think Bigger is just fine for a 5th grader.

 

:iagree: also, i love the extension readers. we actually dropped HOD after 17 weeks but kept the extension readers and still use them. that was my favorite part of the program honestly. i read them aloud though to both kids, which isn't the point i suppose. we really like them though!:D

[beccad777]

Thank you all for your suggestions! :001_smile:

 

My 3rd grader places solidly in Preparing except for her reading. My 5th grader places in Preparing as well. When I say struggling reader, she can read some of the emerging readers on the Bigger list (like the Frog and Toad books) and is getting stronger. She is very smart and comprehends things very well and catches on faster than my 5th grader. I feel like she could easily do the work in Preparing without it being a huge struggle for her, but she could not read things independently. I am hoping by working with her throughout the summer she will improve.

 

My 5th grader is slower to catch on to things and abhors writing, although he is getting better as I am requiring more writing. I feel like if I lower the bar for him he will take advantage of that and never rise to do the work he is capable of doing.

 

My reasons for choosing HOD are because it is all laid out and I don't have to plan as much as with MFW. If I am adding a bunch of stuff to Bigger to make it enough for my 5th grader, than I don't know if I want to do that. I guess if there was a schedule in the back to follow for the extensions it would be ok, but if it's just a book list I would be constantly having to ride him and it would be a struggle.

 

I am leaning towards Preparing and doing some American History with my 3rd grader over the summer so she is not missing that element of her education.

[beccad777]

Do you all think that CTC is too much for a 4th grader? That is where she would be after next year and people on the HOD board seem to be shocked that I would put her in CTC after next year if she is struggling with reading now. I figure her reading will be caught up by then.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Thank you all for your suggestions! :001_smile:

 

My 3rd grader places solidly in Preparing except for her reading. My 5th grader places in Preparing as well. When I say struggling reader, she can read some of the emerging readers on the Bigger list (like the Frog and Toad books) and is getting stronger. She is very smart and comprehends things very well and catches on faster than my 5th grader. I feel like she could easily do the work in Preparing without it being a huge struggle for her, but she could not read things independently. I am hoping by working with her throughout the summer she will improve.

I think this is a great plan!!! If you have the catalog from HOD, have your 3rd grader work through the books from the emerging readers. They are in order in the catalog in the Beyond section. It is reading a chapter a day out of them until you finish the book. It is a steady progression and I have seen great improvement in my son's confidence and ability in reading.

Have you tried something like reading eggspress for your 3rd grader? We are doing Reading Eggspress with my 3rd grader who is finishing up the emerging readers now. He loves it and is improving daily. The comprehension gym is great and it helped me to see that his reading wasn't as low as I thought when he took the placement test for it. Reading Eggspress has worked well for my 3rd grader and he can work on it independently.

 

My 5th grader is slower to catch on to things and abhors writing, although he is getting better as I am requiring more writing. I feel like if I lower the bar for him he will take advantage of that and never rise to do the work he is capable of doing.

This is exactly what happened to us. I was advised to leave ds in Beyond this year. He had done it last year combined with his sisters.

I went against the advice to leave ds in Beyond this year b/c he placed in Bigger for everything. His penmanship was his weak area and that is why everyone advised me to continue with Beyond with him. He could do Beyond with ease but he was not stretching and challenging himself and this year would have been a bit of a waste staying in a lower level.

He has already improved in his writing ability and speed. The best thing that I could have done was to place him in the higher level.

My reasons for choosing HOD are because it is all laid out and I don't have to plan as much as with MFW. If I am adding a bunch of stuff to Bigger to make it enough for my 5th grader, than I don't know if I want to do that. I guess if there was a schedule in the back to follow for the extensions it would be ok, but if it's just a book list I would be constantly having to ride him and it would be a struggle.

The extensions are a book list that is scheduled reading. You will have to remind him to narrate and notebook for the extensions. I personally don't think that they raise the bar enough in Bigger for a 5th grader. The science is definitely not 5th grade level even with the extension books.

If you went with Bigger plus extensions for your 5th grader, you would have to add the extensions in every guide that you did after with HOD to raise it to grade level plus you would have to add in more for high school to be high school worthy b/c your 5th grader would not make it through the high school guides if he starts with Bigger.

 

 

I am leaning towards Preparing and doing some American History with my 3rd grader over the summer so she is not missing that element of her education.

I think with your goals and what you have expressed as your desire to have an open and go curriculum that you don't have to schedule more and add to in order to make it grade level for your oldest that this is a great plan. The American history books used in Bigger are public domain on google books and you can download them on any e-reader for free. You could read through A First Book in American History with your 3rd grader this summer easily.

With HOD, it is easy to get into the typical debate about the HOD method and philosphy for combining...yet you have to take into account your own personal goals for your children and what you are trying to attain by going with the curriculum. I am sure your kids will have a great year in Preparing. :001_smile:

 

[beccad777]

Thank you, Openminded, for your thoughts. It has helped me tremendously! I do have Reading Eggs subscriptions for all of my kids, so I will have her work on that more and hope it helps. I will also have her read through the books you suggested. Thanks again! Settling it in my mind takes a huge burden off me! :001_smile:

[Tidbits of Learning]

Do you all think that CTC is too much for a 4th grader? That is where she would be after next year and people on the HOD board seem to be shocked that I would put her in CTC after next year if she is struggling with reading now. I figure her reading will be caught up by then.

 

CTC is not too much for a 4th grader. I combined all my kids in Beyond last year and beefed it up majorly for my girls with extra everything. This year we skipped Bigger and Preparing with them and it did not hurt them a bit. Most told me that I needed Preparing and the jump to CTC would be too much after them not having done Bigger or Preparing. I bought Preparing and we did it for a week before I decided that it was not a challenge for my dd10. I felt we would have had a stagnant year as far as growth if we did not skip Preparing.

You have the goal to get your 3rd graders reading improved. I would work on that goal. I was told to not stretch my 3rd grader this year and to continue with Beyond with him. It would have been a wasted year.

If your 3rd grader goes through Preparing, they will be ready for CTC. You will be continually moving forward.

You can't assume because your 3rd grader is a late bloomer with reading right now that the trend will continue barring a learning disability. Most children who are late bloomers with reading really take off at some point and progress several grade levels at once. Both my dd10 and my ds9 have followed this trend.

My advice is to give your 3rd grader some credit and steadily work towards your goal of improving reading skills while challenging your children with grade level work. As I said before there is always the debate on HOD's philosophies and most of the time you are encouraged to go with the lower skill level in anticipation of problems arising. I personally would rather challenge my child and them have an academic year of growth than to not challenge them and for them to sail through and have an academically stagnant year.

I have done several HOD levels: LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG with extensions for a 4th grader (yes I felt a 4th grader needed extensions), PHFHG (briefly), and CTC. It is all going to depend on your academic goals as to whether you will think the guides are specific grade levels and whether you think your child will struggle with CTC after Preparing. I don't think you will have an issue b/c from your descriptions your children place in Preparing. If they complete Preparing, then they should be ready for CTC.

[Mommy Jen]

I would use preparing! :001_smile:

 

I'm using Bigger for my older advanced 3rd grader and he's reading the extensions. It could be enough for some 5th graders, but it sounds like your 2 will do better in preparing.